Your tax dollars at work....

[piper17 1]

Oh well, it's only $1.8 Billion...it's not like it's in the $trillions:

"The IRS allowed more than 1 million foreigners -- many of them in the U.S. illegally -- to improperly claim $1.8 billion in child tax credits in 2007, a government investigator said Thursday.

The Internal Revenue Service allowed the tax credits even though the workers did not provide Social Security numbers on their tax returns, J. Russell George, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, said in a report.

The workers instead used government-issued tax identification numbers, which are available to immigrants for certain tax-filing purposes -- regardless of their legal status -- but are not valid for employment in the U.S.

The issue highlights a weakness in current law, according to the report. Federal law does not require a Social Security number to receive the $1,000 child tax credit, which is available to workers, even if they don't make enough money to pay any federal income taxes. But a Social Security number is required to work and earn wages in the U.S., the report said.

"As it now stands, the payment of federal funds through this tax benefit appears to provide an additional incentive for aliens to enter, reside and work in the U.S. without authorization, which contradicts federal law and policy to remove such incentives," the report said.

The Internal Revenue Service said it supports efforts to require Social Security numbers to receive the child tax credit. In the meantime, the IRS has stepped up efforts to ensure that immigrants do not improperly obtain Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers, the agency said in a written response to the report.

The IRS also said the Social Security Administration is working to ensure that workers have valid Social Security numbers."

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[chuckakers 425]

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Oh well, it's only $1.8 Billion...it's not like it's in the $trillions:

"The IRS allowed more than 1 million foreigners -- many of them in the U.S. illegally -- to improperly claim $1.8 billion in child tax credits in 2007, a government investigator said Thursday.

So is that tax fraud or welfare fraud?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Capt.Slog 0]

The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

[Amazon 7]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

That brings up one of my pet peeves.... business expenses... its AMAZING what corporations can write off that would be considered to be MASSIVE LUXURIES in any normal persons mind.

I think those kinds of loopholes need to be shut off.. once and for all....sorry but if you want a fancy office.. or a mega structure to shout how successfull you are or your business is... PAY for it out of your own gawd dayum pocket.. not charge it off to the rest of the american taxpayers.

[Capt.Slog 0]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

That brings up one of my pet peeves.... business expenses... its AMAZING what corporations can write off that would be considered to be MASSIVE LUXURIES in any normal persons mind.

I think those kinds of loopholes need to be shut off.. once and for all....sorry but if you want a fancy office.. or a mega structure to shout how successfull you are or your business is... PAY for it out of your own gawd dayum pocket.. not charge it off to the rest of the american taxpayers.

The IRS estimates that honest taxpayers have to pony up an additional $2,200 per return to pay for the under-reporters and over-deducters.

[Gawain 0]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

Despite that, the top 10% of earners pay about half the total bill. The top 25% pay roughly 80%. So....no, that argument doesn't add up.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[BDashe 0]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

Despite that, the top 10% of earners pay about half the total bill. The top 25% pay roughly 80%. So....no, that argument doesn't add up.

+1 G! Those successfull people @ the top certainly don't pay their fair share of our government's expenditures. 80% is nothing! oh you mean 80%, like almost ALL of it... redistribution of wealth is certainly a democratic and captalistic notion right...? Isn't it?

In related news, sometime between january 1st and april 15th every year the government gets it's boot an estimated 130% of the way up each its citizens @sses, while simultaneously flipping them the bird. No one is quite sure how this number came to exist, however the figure is unanimously agreed upon.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[georgerussia 0]

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That brings up one of my pet peeves.... business expenses... its AMAZING what corporations can write off that would be considered to be MASSIVE LUXURIES in any normal persons mind. I think those kinds of loopholes need to be shut off.. once and for all....

What exactly is amazing there?
What kind of loopholes you're talking about?

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sorry but if you want a fancy office.. or a mega structure to shout how successfull you are or your business is... PAY for it out of your own gawd dayum pocket.. not charge it off to the rest of the american taxpayers.

"Mega structure" is very useful for a company with many employees. It allows the people to work more productive because of less travel. Fancy offices are helpful to hire and retain talented workers - somehow people usually prefer to work in a private room with bay view than in unfinished basement. This means the business will be more competitive, earn more money and therefore pay more in taxes. Or spend more in business expenses, which - in turn - will employ more workers to build and maintain yet another "mega structure".

But if you consider it unfair, there is always a choice. You could always set up a corporation yourself, and once you get profitable, you could have the same business expenses as they do. If you ARE profitable, of course.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[penniless 0]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

Despite that, the top 10% of earners pay about half the total bill. The top 25% pay roughly 80%. So....no, that argument doesn't add up.

I'm surprised that you would condone lawbreaking.

The % paid by various categories is really not relevant to the issue. You and I pay more because some fat cats don't pay what they are supposed to pay.

[penniless 0]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

Despite that, the top 10% of earners pay about half the total bill. The top 25% pay roughly 80%. So....no, that argument doesn't add up.

+1 G! Those successfull people @ the top certainly don't pay their fair share of our government's expenditures. 80% is nothing! oh you mean 80%, like almost ALL of it... redistribution of wealth is certainly a democratic and captalistic notion right...? Isn't it?

In related news, sometime between january 1st and april 15th every year the government gets it's boot an estimated 130% of the way up each its citizens @sses, while simultaneously flipping them the bird. No one is quite sure how this number came to exist, however the figure is unanimously agreed upon.

Is disagreeing with the tax rate structure an acceptable excuse for perjury on your tax return?

[FallingOsh 0]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

That didn't take long to start blaming other people. The article was about illegal immigrants taking money and you somehow manage to turn it into legal taxpayers' fault.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[FallingOsh 0]

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I'm surprised that you would condone lawbreaking.

The % paid by various categories is really not relevant to the issue. You and I pay more because some fat cats don't pay what they are supposed to pay.

80% isn't enough for them to pay? I suppose you'd like them to just go ahead and cover the whole thing.

I'm gunna go out on a limb and say we pay more because 40% of the population doesn't pay anything. Not because a company writes off a few more business expenses than you agree with.

The people breaking the law in the OP were illegal immigrants, but that would be too easy. Quick, start blaming the rich guys because 80% of the tax burden isn't enough.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[penniless 0]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

That didn't take long to start blaming other people. The article was about illegal immigrants taking money and you somehow manage to turn it into legal taxpayers' fault.

"Legal taxpayers" don't cheat on their taxes.

Funny how you excuse the rich for robbing the government of $300 billion while getting all upset about 1% of that amount going to illegal aliens.

[penniless 0]

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I'm surprised that you would condone lawbreaking.

The % paid by various categories is really not relevant to the issue. You and I pay more because some fat cats don't pay what they are supposed to pay.

80% isn't enough for them to pay? I suppose you'd like them to just go ahead and cover the whole thing.

.

No. I'd simply like them to pay what they owe. Like I do.

[rushmc 23]

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I'm surprised that you would condone lawbreaking.

The % paid by various categories is really not relevant to the issue. You and I pay more because some fat cats don't pay what they are supposed to pay.

80% isn't enough for them to pay? I suppose you'd like them to just go ahead and cover the whole thing.

.

No. I'd simply like them to pay what they owe. Like I do.

Ya, them there bastards should pay their taxes just like Obamas cabinet members did. Then all would be well

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gawain 0]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

Despite that, the top 10% of earners pay about half the total bill. The top 25% pay roughly 80%. So....no, that argument doesn't add up.

I'm surprised that you would condone lawbreaking.

The % paid by various categories is really not relevant to the issue. You and I pay more because some fat cats don't pay what they are supposed to pay.

I wrote nothing about law breaking. It is not illegal for someone to hold an offshore account. The government doesn't like it because they can't tax it, but it's not illegal.

Now, how an individual reports their income is another matter. If they earn $2M and report only earning $1M in taxable income, that's different. However, if the code only recognizes a certain amount as taxable....

You and I pay no more than the tax code "requires" regardless of those who do or do not pay. It also does not change the fact that the top earners pay the most taxes, even with "shelters" and "write-offs".

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kbordson 8]

So

Lets look at real numbers here for a small business owner.

"top wage earners" - Income above 357,700 has the highest tax bracket.

Federal rate at 35%. source
$125,195

State taxes at 6% (using the above $357,700 listed by the feds as the highest tax bracket amt) source
$21,237

Self-Employment tax (12.4% for first 102,000 and 2.9% for entire amt)source
$24,982

Total tax: $171,414 (47.9% of income)






whereas those earning under 16,050 have the lowest tax bracket

Federal rate at 10%
$1,605 (use the same source as above for the federal info)

State rate at
$738 (use the same source as above for state of Missouri info)

Self Employment tax
$2455

Total tax: $4798 (29.9% of income)



Now... with standard deductions, who gets more of that amount back?



I wonder how many people got money back, but are still whining that the "fat cats" didn't pay enough?


edit to put the percentage value with the right number.

[jerryzflies 0]

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I wonder how many people got money back, but are still whining that the "fat cats" didn't pay enough?


edit to put the percentage value with the right number.

Another one who condones illegal underreporting of income.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[kbordson 8]

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I wonder how many people got money back, but are still whining that the "fat cats" didn't pay enough?


edit to put the percentage value with the right number.

Another one who condones illegal underreporting of income.

Nope. Never said that, nor do I condone it.

But if you want to be on public record with such lies, go for it.

[jerryzflies 0]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

Despite that, the top 10% of earners pay about half the total bill. The top 25% pay roughly 80%. So....no, that argument doesn't add up.

I'm surprised that you would condone lawbreaking.

The % paid by various categories is really not relevant to the issue. You and I pay more because some fat cats don't pay what they are supposed to pay.

I wrote nothing about law breaking. It is not illegal for someone to hold an offshore account. The government doesn't like it because they can't tax it, but it's not illegal.

It's illegal to have an offshore account and not report its existence. It's one of the questions on the tax form. The IRS estimates it loses hundreds of billions in taxes owed due to funds being hidden in unreported offshore accounts.

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Now, how an individual reports their income is another matter. If they earn $2M and report only earning $1M in taxable income, that's different. However, if the code only recognizes a certain amount as taxable....

You and I pay no more than the tax code "requires" regardless of those who do or do not pay. It also does not change the fact that the top earners pay the most taxes, even with "shelters" and "write-offs".

The discussion here is about taxes owed but not paid due to ILLEGAL under-reporting. The rich and the small business owners are the worst offenders by far.

The rest of us ARE shortchanged by these people.

I suggest you google "tax gap"

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[jerryzflies 0]

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I wonder how many people got money back, but are still whining that the "fat cats" didn't pay enough?

I'm curious why anyone's rebate status should affect the validity of their opinion about tax cheats.

Another one who condones illegal underreporting of income.

Nope. Never said that, nor do I condone it.

But if you want to be on public record with such lies, go for it.

[kbordson 8]

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I wonder how many people got money back, but are still whining that the "fat cats" didn't pay enough?

I'm curious why anyone's rebate status should affect the validity of their opinion about tax cheats.

edit to put the percentage value with the right number.

Another one who condones illegal underreporting of income.

Nope. Never said that, nor do I condone it.

But if you want to be on public record with such lies, go for it.

Curious why you would call someone who objects to tax cheats a whiner, if you don't condone tax cheating.

[jerryzflies 0]

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I wonder how many people got money back, but are still whining that the "fat cats" didn't pay enough?

I'm curious why anyone's rebate status should affect the validity of their opinion about tax cheats.

edit to put the percentage value with the right number.

Another one who condones illegal underreporting of income.

Nope. Never said that, nor do I condone it.

But if you want to be on public record with such lies, go for it.

Curious why you would call someone who objects to tax cheats a whiner, if you don't condone tax cheating.

My statement was in regards to those getting money back, or not paying as much in... but complaining about those who do by saying they can't be paying enough.

Everybody wants the benefit... but "someone else" needs to pay in.

Nothing in my statement condones tax evasion. Try again.

[FallingOsh 0]

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The IRS estimates that self employed Americans and small business owners underpay their taxes by roughly $150 BILLION/year by underreporting income and overstating expenses.

In addition, the IRS estimates that another $150 BILLION goes unpaid on account of corporations and wealthy Americans sheltering their money in offshore tax havens.

And your tax dollars have to make up the shortfall.

That didn't take long to start blaming other people. The article was about illegal immigrants taking money and you somehow manage to turn it into legal taxpayers' fault.

"Legal taxpayers" don't cheat on their taxes.

Funny how you excuse the rich for robbing the government of $300 billion while getting all upset about 1% of that amount going to illegal aliens.

If they're "robbing the government" (which is a fucking hilarious statement since the government is taking money out of their pockets at a higher rate than any other group in the country) then they should be prosecuted for tax evasion. If they have legit write offs or legal offshore accounts then that's their business. Just because you dont agree doesn't necessarily mean its illegal. If it's illegal, prosecute. If its not, stop whining.

Funny how you excuse the illegal immigrants but are willing to pan fry the rich (and by rich, you mostly mean small business owners).

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[kbordson 8]

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Nothing in my statement condones tax evasion. Try again.

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I wonder how many people got money back, but are still whining that the "fat cats" didn't pay enough?

The only complaints about not paying enough have been in reference to illegal tax evasion. And you call those complaints "whining".

It's OK, we understand.

You, sir, either have a guilty conscience or are quite egocentric.

I was NOT specifically pointing you out. I was NOT replying to you. After giving REAL NUMBER examples of tax payments, I wondered, IN GENERAL, how many that get money back will complain that others (specifically the "fat cats" of whom many, not just you, demonize as evil) don't pay enough.

Then YOU directly replied to me accusing me of supporting tax evasion with no proof to that statement. Not a "wonder if you support it" nor even a question of "do you support it?" Just a sniped out of context sentence with a poor interpretation of its meaning that accuses someone of a federal offense.

And now you think you understand?!