Pres' Obama excuses CIA torture

[TomAiello 26]

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Until, of course, they're rewritten or a new precedent is set... a vote is overturned, old laws are considered outdated or "not progressive..." Take your pick.

The Executive branch of the federal government, which includes the Justice Department, lacks the authority to do any of that.

Perhaps in theory. And I agree that in practice they should not. However, in reality, they do it all the time.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[jcd11235 0]

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The Executive branch of the federal government, which includes the Justice Department, lacks the authority to do any of that.

Perhaps in theory. And I agree that in practice they should not. However, in reality, they do it all the time.

And, also in reality, if they do so and get called on it, then they better be ready to accept responsibility and face the repercussions for their actions.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rushmc 23]

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I do not like the position that indicates I support torture. I clearly do not but, there is a raging debate of what exactly torture is. I do not think waterboarding is. I think bambo under your nails is.........

If one supports water boarding, they support torture, plain and simple. It is not legally ambiguous, despite what those blowhards Cheney, Yoo, et al. want to claim.

Ah the arogance

pure bull shit
But I expect no less from limp spined enotional liberals

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,008]

Your one warning.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Ah the arogance

pure bull shit
But I expect no less from limp spined enotional liberals

"Enotion"? Is that Cambodian for something?
Hmm...not only did the Khmer Rouge agree with your attitude on water boarding, their party also embraced anti-intellectualism, not unlike the hardliners of another scarlet hued party here in the states

[rushmc 23]

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Ah the arogance

pure bull shit
But I expect no less from limp spined enotional liberals

"Enotion"? Is that Cambodian for something?
Hmm...not only did the Khmer Rouge agree with your attitude on water boarding, their party also embraced anti-intellectualism, not unlike the hardliners of another scarlet hued party here in the states

ya

and I get the warning.............

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

Where did you see the insult? I mocked the spelling error but I thought that was fair game in SC.

If it had something to do with my reference to the Khmer Rouge then it's possible that you're unfamiliar with their views on intellectuals. They even took it to the point of killing educated people if they didn't know how to farm. They also embraced waterboarding as torture, and until recently they were the worst, most recent example of which I'm aware.

Are you upset about the cherry picked parallels (oh so rare here) that I drew between the KR and the hard core neo-GOP'ers?
Waterboarding ok with Bush apologists and the KM? Check.
Both appealing to anti-intellectualism?
Check.

I'm sorry if you feel offended but don't misplace the aggression towards Billvon. I made my case without insult. Now, I COULD have gotten the same point across by poorly wording it directly into a personal attack, as you did earlier. But that's counterproductive to my argument and risks getting me banned.

[kelpdiver 2]

Comparing people to key Nazis has gotten people vacations here. Shouldn't be any different in your example with the 70s equivalent in SE Asia.

Seemed like a huge leap too, for a misstype (we can all see the m and n next to each other on the keyboard).

[idrankwhat 0]

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Comparing people to key Nazis has gotten people vacations here. Shouldn't be any different in your example with the 70s equivalent in SE Asia.

Seemed like a huge leap too, for a misstype (we can all see the m and n next to each other on the keyboard).

The mistype didn't have anything to do with it. Well, that's not exactly true. The misspelling was a means to open the door to the point that I wanted to make. We consider waterboarding torture from when it's described in the Spanish Inquisition (maybe even earlier) until today. We hung Japanese prisoners who waterboarded American POW's. We also considered it a form of torture when the knowledge-o-phobic Khmer Rouge did it. Now suddenly, when we do it, we have people who seem to think that the status of waterboarding as torture "is conditional". Having that blatantly flawed argument presented with misspellings, by one of the most vocal supporters/apologists/boosters of the anti-intellectual GOP movement, well.....it was too good of an opportunity to pass up.

If people are offended that their arguments can be compared to those of war criminals, then maybe, just maybe they might want to sit back and reconsider which causes they decide to aggressively champion.

[kelpdiver 2]

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If people are offended that their arguments can be compared to those of war criminals, then maybe, just maybe they might want to sit back and reconsider which causes they decide to aggressively champion.

Or perhaps you should consider the rules of this forum, or the actual benefit to the conversation when you make comparisons to mass murderers. Let's be honest, you wanted to take a cheap shot at him. As you said, "it was too good of an opportunity to pass up."

[idrankwhat 0]

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Or perhaps you should consider the rules of this forum, or the actual benefit to the conversation when you make comparisons to mass murderers. Let's be honest, you wanted to take a cheap shot at him. As you said, "it was too good of an opportunity to pass up."

I did consider the rules of the forum. But I broke no rules when I made my point. Marc has an "ends justifies the means" view on waterboarding. The Japanese felt the same way. So did the KR. Pointing that out is not a personal attack. Now if I had called him or anyone else "arrogant" and "limp spined" then I would expect to be kicked out of here.


Edited to add: If I ever say something like "I think handing out swine flu infected blankets as a means of immigration control is 'situational'" feel free to compare me to whichever genocidal group you prefer.

[kelpdiver 2]

Rules enforcement is always inconsistent, and I'll leave it to them to decide if your words warrant a response.

But it's clear to me, and equally lame to use an errant 'n' as the pretext for the attack.

BTW, a lot of people on both sides take the end to the means approach. It's acceptable when it promotes your agenda. It's a sinful ends dismissal when you disagree with it.

[idrankwhat 0]

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BTW, a lot of people on both sides take the end to the means approach. It's acceptable when it promotes your agenda. It's a sinful ends dismissal when you disagree with it.

I agree to a certain extent. I take that position with regard to things like taxpayer dollars for alternative energy development, education, health care, etc. I believe that those things are worth the fiscal pain that they may cause. But I do NOT take an "end justifies the means" stance with regard to human rights issues. Please let me know if you catch me doing it.
(The closest I think I've come is the pirate issue. But I think that if you're in the act of willfully committing a violent crime then you bear responsibility for the consequences.)