Socialism in America

[billvon 2,997]

>Unfortunately it doesn't take a majority. According to Rasmussen, the
>President's rating has fallen from a +28 to a +2 since election day . . .

That would represent a majority.

>So called "representatives" can do whatever they like in Washington
>with or without public approval.

Right. That's the definition of a republic - elected leaders who make decisions on their own.

[lawrocket 3]

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Americans are ignorant

Which is what I said in my post in more words. Hence I agree with your wife, must be my 24 consecutive years in Europe and many visits since.

I look at things as a matter of choice. I am truly ignorant about what it it like to have sex with a man. I've had a couple of friends of mine tell me how great it is and how much better it is than sex with a woman. Of course I have no reason to doubt their genuine feelings. They have their subjective opinions about things. On the other hand, I am perfectly content with sex with women. I love women.

In fact, I had a girlfriend and I asked her if she'd ever had sex with a woman before. She said she hadn't. I told her she should try it sometime because it's really awesome having sex with women. A few weeks later she had sex with a woman. Then she dumped me.

It just comes down to choices. Just because Joe is having sex with guys doesn't mean it's for me. Even a consensus opinion that homosexual intercourse leads to success in work, money and happiness would leave me thinking, "You know. It just isn't for me."

The same with capitalism versus socialism. It is acceptable to society out there. They want it and they've gotten it. And sure, it's got its problems, too. But compared to the alternative they'd rather have what they've got than what the US has.

Capitalism isn't the "best" for everyone. Socialism isn't the "best" for everyone. There is no such thing as "best" for everyone. All I know is what is best for me.

Since capitalism is the system that allows me to make that determination independent of anyone else, capitalism is the system I prefer. If I need a surgery to remove a gall stone, I'd like to pick my doctor and pay the doctor myself. If I want to tack some tits to my back, I should be able to pay a physician to perform that ridiculous surgery.

What provides me with the most individual choice? What provides me to decide priorities for myself?

I fear that which strips me of personal authority.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Remster 30]

I hope you all realize (I know some of you do) that trying to compare socialism to capitalism by comparing European systems with the US system is like comparing beef to chicken by trying pork chops and lamb shanks (yes, I'm hungry).

The US system is not a true capitalist system, and none of the EU countries are truly socialist. Both live somewhere along the spectrum, pretty close to the middle.

Remster

[shropshire 0]

+ 1 & well said.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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If I want to tack some tits to my back, I should be able to pay a physician to perform that ridiculous surgery.

ROFLMAO ... imagine the possibilities ...

Yes I enjoy the freedom choice versus having some government bureaucrat telling me what to do. But we better enjoy these freedoms while we can. The freedom to choose one's career, to choose one's destiny, the freedom to do interesting activities (like skydiving, like driving a fast car or bike), etc, etc, etc because I suspect our children's children or their children will not have the same freedom we may have now.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Remster 30]

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+ 1 & well said.

Now, if you people could ever learn that frittes are supposed to be thin and fried twice, and should never be eaten inside a piece of white bread, you could call yourself an advanced society.

Remster

[shropshire 0]

-1 TW@

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[mpohl 1]

"Socialism" has become the new "McCarthyism" in right-wing ideological circles in the US. Few understand the true sociological meaning of capitalism, socialism, communism. Even fewer understand the concept of "social market economy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy) as practiced in Western and Northern Europe.

I can assure you that none of my fellow American compatriots, who so vigorously respond to your post, has ever read "Das Kapital, A Critique of Political Economy". At times, I am not sure if they can read, let alone, think for themselves.

P.S.: It is an article of faith that America is the Land of the Free. True freedom comes when you're healthy, well educated, and decently fed. Living in "American-style" chaos (economic instability, lack of affordable health care, absence of free and universal education) does not equal living in liberty.

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Glenn Beck on Obama's 'Change': Socialism

First of all, i have never laughed so hard in my entire life. Second of all, is this really how the majority of Americans view socialism? I know Glenn Beck's opinion probably isnt an adequate sampling of the American opinion in general.. But still?

i don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but here In Europe socialism is pretty wide spread and accepted and has been for the last 70 years. Hell, here in Norway we've had the socialists in office pretty much all the time since the 1880's and we're one of the most equal and well off country's in the world, i love it. I just can't see how people like that man reason when they say that socialism is the same as Communism or on the way to it. That's like getting all fussy and calling republicans nazis just because their right wing. I mean come on, it's common sense that communism is a authoritarian form of all left wing politics, just like national-socialists and Nazis are the authoritarian version of all the other right wing forms of politics. So my question is, is the majority of Americans really this stupid when it comes to politics? because this really took the prize in the stupidest sh*t I've seen in ages.


/rant

[FallingOsh 0]

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>Unfortunately it doesn't take a majority. According to Rasmussen, the
>President's rating has fallen from a +28 to a +2 since election day . . .

That would represent a majority.

And the 30% approval of congress does not.

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>So called "representatives" can do whatever they like in Washington
>with or without public approval.

Right. That's the definition of a republic - elected leaders who make decisions on their own.

Yes. Thank you. That was my point.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[Amazon 7]

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"Socialism" has become the new "McCarthyism" in right-wing ideological circles in the US. Few understand the true sociological meaning of capitalism, socialism, communism. Even fewer understand the concept of "social market economy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy) as practiced in Western and Northern Europe.

I can assure you that none of my fellow American compatriots, who so vigorously respond to your post, has ever read "Das Kapital, A Critique of Political Economy". At times, I am not sure if they can read, let alone, think for themselves.

P.S.: It is an article of faith that America is the Land of the Free. True freedom comes when you're healthy, well educated, and decently fed. Living in "American-style" chaos (economic instability, lack of affordable health care, absence of free and universal education) does not equal living in liberty.

Quote

Glenn Beck on Obama's 'Change': Socialism

First of all, i have never laughed so hard in my entire life. Second of all, is this really how the majority of Americans view socialism? I know Glenn Beck's opinion probably isnt an adequate sampling of the American opinion in general.. But still?

i don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but here In Europe socialism is pretty wide spread and accepted and has been for the last 70 years. Hell, here in Norway we've had the socialists in office pretty much all the time since the 1880's and we're one of the most equal and well off country's in the world, i love it. I just can't see how people like that man reason when they say that socialism is the same as Communism or on the way to it. That's like getting all fussy and calling republicans nazis just because their right wing. I mean come on, it's common sense that communism is a authoritarian form of all left wing politics, just like national-socialists and Nazis are the authoritarian version of all the other right wing forms of politics. So my question is, is the majority of Americans really this stupid when it comes to politics? because this really took the prize in the stupidest sh*t I've seen in ages.


/rant

Yeah it kinda sucks when 30%+ of our population gets 100% of its political science from Glen Speck, Lush Rimjob et al.

[billvon 2,997]

>And the 30% approval of congress does not.

Agreed. Of course, the 50% approval rating of congressional democrats and the 29% approval rating of congressional republicans indicates who Americans would rather support.

(CBS poll, March 2009)

[TomAiello 26]

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>And the 30% approval of congress does not.

Agreed. Of course, the 50% approval rating of congressional democrats and the 29% approval rating of congressional republicans indicates who Americans would rather support.

(CBS poll, March 2009)

The problem with that logic is that it assumes the US is one big homogeneous mass--which, earlier today, you wisely pointed out was not the case.

The US is geographically diverse, and one of the designed features of our government system is supposed to be that it is difficult for one state (or group of states, or region, or group of regions) to impose it's will upon another state (or group of states, or region, or group of regions).

If you begin thinking "well, we've got 60% of the total people on our side, so let's vote and have our way" you're well on your way to perfect democracy, fort sumter and other places along the superhighway to national self-destruction.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[billvon 2,997]

>The US is geographically diverse, and one of the designed features of our
>government system is supposed to be that it is difficult for one state (or >group of states, or region, or group of regions) to impose it's will upon
>another state (or group of states, or region, or group of regions).

Sort of. We consider statehood to confer a certain amount of representation, hence the Senate. We also consider that citizens should be represented in equal numbers in the government, hence the House of Representatives.

However, there is no consideration of geography in our system of government. For example, if all the eastern and midwest states voted for X, and the western states wanted Y, there is no mechanism to ensure that the easterners are stopped.

>If you begin thinking "well, we've got 60% of the total people on our side,
>so let's vote and have our way" you're well on your way to perfect
>democracy, fort sumter and other places along the superhighway to
>national self-destruction.

That's how democracy works. If you get 51% of the people and 51% of the states on your side (which are often, but not always, the same) then "that side" can do almost whatever they want. For more important issues the percentages are higher, but the same basic principle applies.

[TomAiello 26]

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That's how democracy works. If you get 51% of the people and 51% of the states on your side (which are often, but not always, the same) then "that side" can do almost whatever they want.

Right. Which is why, as you pointed out, we have a Republic.

If 99% of the people in the USA want to lock up the other 1% in interment camps, even though that would be a democratic result, I'd be against it.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com