Bye Bye Pontiac.

[Mazz 0]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/autos/pontiac_obit/index.htm?postversion=2009042414

No more fire bird.
No more GTO.

In the Navy, you can't put your hands in your pockets but I was always told not to put my hands in my pockets by people with their hands in their pockets. Kinda funny huh?

[Gawain 0]

Well that shoots Holden in the foot too. The Pontiac brand practically outsells the bottom four name-plates combined...yet it gets the axe.

Saturn, a brand that has never in its existence turned a profit, is on the selling block, but Pontiac is dead?

Hummer, a brand that was redundant to the point of nausea, is on the selling block, but Pontiac is dead?

This must be part of the executive car czar team's influence at the White House.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[happythoughts 0]

Pontiac had some moments with little sporty cars, but
their big presence was the Firebird. The Firebird was
always butting heads with the Camaro.

You can't be a one-trick pony.

I have never understood why Saturn didn't make
money, except for being part of the GM money whirlpool.

I had two of them (one had 200K miles, the other
got rolled all the way over with no injuries).

When I worked at a telecom company, there was
always a bunch of them in the parking lot.

[ryoder 1,590]

It is high time GM dispensed with the nonsense of selling the same cars with different names slapped on them. What Pontiac model today is not available under another name?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Pontiac had some moments with little sporty cars, but
their big presence was the Firebird. The Firebird was
always butting heads with the Camaro.

You can't be a one-trick pony.

I have never understood why Saturn didn't make
money, except for being part of the GM money whirlpool.

I had two of them (one had 200K miles, the other
got rolled all the way over with no injuries).

When I worked at a telecom company, there was
always a bunch of them in the parking lot.

Pontiac was showing signs of life with the infusion of Holden designs, Lutz never followed through though, and certainly UAW would have had issues with it. GM was under pressure to kill off GMC, its second best selling brand by the feds. So they got Pontiac instead.

GM should never have allowed the feds to get corrode this company further. If the loans convert to an equity stake, that will be the death knell of GM.

As it is, billions of taxpayer dollars will have resulted in a bankruptcy. Something that could have happened without putting GM on the dole.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

Quote

It is high time GM dispensed with the nonsense of selling the same cars with different names slapped on them. What Pontiac model today is not available under another name?

G8 and GTO. The plan was to bring Holden in the mix completely. Their strategy was a model at a time, but they still rolled it too slowly, and their marketing was abysmal.

As to your statement, the same can be said for the entire GM brand, save Cadillac.

GMC Acadia, Chevy Traverse, Saturn Outlook
Pontiac G5, Chevy Cobalt, Saturn Ion
Chevy Trailblazer, GMC Envoy, Suzuki XL7, Saab 97, Isuzu Ascender
Pontiac G6, Saturn Aura, Chevy Malibu, Saab 95
Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky



It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[jerryzflies 0]

Quote

Quote

It is high time GM dispensed with the nonsense of selling the same cars with different names slapped on them. What Pontiac model today is not available under another name?

G8 and GTO. The plan was to bring Holden in the mix completely. Their strategy was a model at a time, but they still rolled it too slowly, and their marketing was abysmal.

As to your statement, the same can be said for the entire GM brand, save Cadillac.

GMC Acadia, Chevy Traverse, Saturn Outlook
Pontiac G5, Chevy Cobalt, Saturn Ion
Chevy Trailblazer, GMC Envoy, Suzuki XL7, Saab 97, Isuzu Ascender
Pontiac G6, Saturn Aura, Chevy Malibu, Saab 95
Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky



It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic...

So how will you blame that on the government?

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[airdvr 210]

Quote

It is high time GM dispensed with the nonsense of selling the same cars with different names slapped on them. What Pontiac model today is not available under another name?

Have to agree with you. When GM started that crap back in the 80's it was a survival move. That combined with a like brand dealer on every corner killed any chances they had.

I actually sold Pontiacs back in the late '80s. Drove me crazy that a cutomer could drive 10 minutes down the road and shop the same car. Or, worse yet he could go across the street and look at a Chevy that was basically the same car.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[riddler 0]

Wider wasn't better?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[ryoder 1,590]

Quote

I have never understood why Saturn didn't make
money, except for being part of the GM money whirlpool.

I recently read a lengthy article about that, (but now I don't recall where).
The short answer is: Saturn was sabotaged by internal politics from the rest of GM management.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I was thinking a new GTO would be nice.

I guess I will stick with the Audi A6 Quattro 2.7 biturbo

Anyone wanna buy my 91 Stealth for a decent price?

98k original miles

[marks2065 0]

Quote

Well that shoots Holden in the foot too. The Pontiac brand practically outsells the bottom four name-plates combined...yet it gets the axe.

Saturn, a brand that has never in its existence turned a profit, is on the selling block, but Pontiac is dead?

Hummer, a brand that was redundant to the point of nausea, is on the selling block, but Pontiac is dead?

This must be part of the executive car czar team's influence at the White House.

Quote

maybe Obama didn't like the acronym for p.o.n.t.i.a.c

[Coreece 190]

not suprised....

Good bye.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[sundevil777 102]

Any car mfg that has more than 2 nameplates has too many. I think there isn't even a reason for more than 1 nameplate, except to satisfy the unknowing elite/snob consumer's desire to have exclusivity. They think that it won't impress their friends if they don't have a luxury brand. The detroit makers go way overboard with the number of brands. The Japanese used to limit themselves to just 2 brands, but now Toyota has lexus and Scion. There is no reason why any of the sporty (pontiac) models, or luxury models (Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti), or youth models (scion) can't be offered under the same nameplate. The is a tremendous amount of waste in marketing, mfg, development, dealers, and it is hard to recover by increased consumer interest in a nameplate.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[mpohl 1]

Bye, bye. Never met you, never could relate to you. Same goes for Hummer, Saturn, Saab. HOWEVER, I did "encounter" a Chevrolet, and never want to have to revisit the experience. GM: you won't be missed.

P.S.: FORD, now that's a totally different story!!!! I'll buy (and have bought) a Ford any day of the week.

Quote

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/autos/pontiac_obit/index.htm?postversion=2009042414

No more fire bird.
No more GTO.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Any car mfg that has more than 2 nameplates has too many. I think there isn't even a reason for more than 1 nameplate, except to satisfy the unknowing elite/snob consumer's desire to have exclusivity. They think that it won't impress their friends if they don't have a luxury brand. The detroit makers go way overboard with the number of brands. The Japanese used to limit themselves to just 2 brands, but now Toyota has lexus and Scion. There is no reason why any of the sporty (pontiac) models, or luxury models (Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti), or youth models (scion) can't be offered under the same nameplate. The is a tremendous amount of waste in marketing, mfg, development, dealers, and it is hard to recover by increased consumer interest in a nameplate.

Psst....it's called marketing...marketing isn't supposed to make sense like that...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[airdvr 210]

Quote

Quote

Any car mfg that has more than 2 nameplates has too many. I think there isn't even a reason for more than 1 nameplate, except to satisfy the unknowing elite/snob consumer's desire to have exclusivity. They think that it won't impress their friends if they don't have a luxury brand. The detroit makers go way overboard with the number of brands. The Japanese used to limit themselves to just 2 brands, but now Toyota has lexus and Scion. There is no reason why any of the sporty (pontiac) models, or luxury models (Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti), or youth models (scion) can't be offered under the same nameplate. The is a tremendous amount of waste in marketing, mfg, development, dealers, and it is hard to recover by increased consumer interest in a nameplate.

Psst....it's called marketing...marketing isn't supposed to make sense like that...

I'm no bizwiz but didn't there used to be a philosophy that it was a good thing to compete with yourself?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Gawain 0]

Quote

I'm no bizwiz but didn't there used to be a philosophy that it was a good thing to compete with yourself?

That was never GM's model though. They acquired brands over the years to increase their market-share and revenues to pay for their legacy costs. They then assimilated those acquired brands into the inefficient fold of deploying new brands across the same platform (as I noted earlier). This resulted in the corrosion of unique brands (most notably, Saab).

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Quote

Any car mfg that has more than 2 nameplates has too many. I think there isn't even a reason for more than 1 nameplate, except to satisfy the unknowing elite/snob consumer's desire to have exclusivity.

You mean like..... Honda / Acura Toyota / Lexus

Also, re-badging didn't start in the 80's, it's been going on since before any of us were even born! I had a 68 Camaro and a 68 Firebird at the same time. Both were gold w/black vinyl tops and black interior. I loved both cars for different reasons. What GM understood back in those days was that...
1. R & D was too expensive for them not to share it.
2. Different buyers liked different things.
3. Most importantly, buyers bought based on brand loyalty. Pontiac buyers were going to buy Firebirds, and Chevy buyers wanted Camaros.

Unfortunately, poor quality of the product they produced in the late 70’s, early 80’s combined with the fact that foreign competitors were producing better products sent the “brand loyal” buyers running. Thus, they became loyal to a new brand, like Toyota and Honda.

The irony in this is that GM is now producing some really great products. American buyers always have been and probably always will be “BRAND” loyal. A phenomenon that blinds our buying freedom .
I think this may be an attempt to bring buyers back to the “Brand”. But, the brand this time will be “GM”. Streamlining the business in this way may be a really smart move.

Pontiac… I, for one, will miss you.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Psst....it's called marketing...marketing isn't supposed to make sense like that...

IIRC, marketing is generally intended to increase profits. I don't mean to state the obvious, but that particular marketing strategy appears to be failing GM.

I think if GM is going to survive and prosper, they need to do some of the same things Apple did when Steve Jobs took the reigns (again) in the late 90's. They cut unprofitable and redundant models from their product line, and focused on a small number of innovative core offerings, each substantially different from the others. It is a strategy that has served them well, allowing them to become one of the most profitable computer hardware companies in the industry.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Quote

Bye, bye. Never met you, never could relate to you. Same goes for Hummer, Saturn, Saab. HOWEVER, I did "encounter" a Chevrolet, and never want to have to revisit the experience. GM: you won't be missed.

P.S.: FORD, now that's a totally different story!!!! I'll buy (and have bought) a Ford any day of the week.

Here is exactly what I'm talking about. You’re a "BRAND" loyal buyer who's blinded by this loyalty to the point that you won't even look at the possibility of buying anything but a Ford.

And, that's O.K. as long as Ford doesn't (once again) become complacent and produce crap! Because, if they do… you’ll buy that crap because it has Ford (or any other label) glued onto the fender.

Instead, I suggest that every time you buy a car, you research and investigate the car (regardless of brand) and buy the best value! That’s how we keep all the manufactures honest. The strong shall survive and the weak will……. well??

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

You mean like..... Honda / Acura Toyota / Lexus

Yes, even some of the Japanese nameplates have 2 (or more) brands. As I said, I think these are a waste, only there to satisfy vanity. If they spent a fraction of the effort with marketing to inform their potential buyers that the ultra luxury vehicle is going to be there within the same brand for less cost, I think the buying public would respond (basically a "value" message). I have personally witnessed the effort that is expended to try and distinguish brands - what will an Acura have that a Honda won't. I can tell you it is a big effort to get that differentiation with just 2 brands, GM must have been making a monumental effort to decide how to distinguish all of theirs. That effort would have been much better spent on making a better product instead.

Quote

Also, re-badging didn't start in the 80's, it's been going on since before any of us were even born! I had a 68 Camaro and a 68 Firebird at the same time. Both were gold w/black vinyl tops and black interior. I loved both cars for different reasons. What GM understood back in those days was that...
1. R & D was too expensive for them not to share it.
2. Different buyers liked different things.
3. Most importantly, buyers bought based on brand loyalty. Pontiac buyers were going to buy Firebirds, and Chevy buyers wanted Camaros.

Of course having many brands isn't new. Having differences that would satisfy the guy inclined to buy a firebird vs a camaro is possible within one brand.

My memory is that in Japan, Honda actually has 3 different dealership "brands", all selling different types of Hondas, so it a bit different - same brand, but different cars for different dealers.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

Psst....it's called marketing...marketing isn't supposed to make sense like that...

IIRC, marketing is generally intended to increase profits. I don't mean to state the obvious, but that particular marketing strategy appears to be failing GM.

I think if GM is going to survive and prosper, they need to do some of the same things Apple did when Steve Jobs took the reigns (again) in the late 90's. They cut unprofitable and redundant models from their product line, and focused on a small number of innovative core offerings, each substantially different from the others. It is a strategy that has served them well, allowing them to become one of the most profitable computer hardware companies in the industry.

Believe it or not, we are in some sort of agreement. Some time ago, I posted a 15 item list for GM, which could have accomplished just that. It was probably naive of me to think the list could actually be applied, but I'm pretty certain it's better than what they've been doing, and probably better than what they are going to do.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[carmenc 0]

I wonder what the "boy racers" will buy now.

[EXTremeWade 0]

Quote

maybe Obama didn't like the acronym for p.o.n.t.i.a.c