jerryzflies 0 #151 May 15, 2009 edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/14/iraq.torture/ Cheney should have kept his mouth shut, he's just making himself and his cronies look worse.If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #152 May 15, 2009 He didn't start piping up until Obama released half of the documents on interrogation techniques and results. He cried foul and people immediately start attacking him rather than ask for the rest of the story from Obama. Now Obama is backing off by not releasing pictures which is a good call. I think Cheney should fade away, too. I just can't blame him for sending a 'fuck you' when the White House started releasing selected portions of classified documents to further their own agenda. I don't think we'll continue to hear from him since it seems Obama's administration is backing away from doing whatever they can to continually embarass the Bush administration. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #153 May 15, 2009 Quote I don't think we'll continue to hear from him since it seems Obama's administration is backing away from doing whatever they can to continually embarass the Bush administration. If open accountability for Cheney and Bush is embarrassing them, it's not anyone's fault but their own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #154 May 15, 2009 The news pundits should answer Cheney the way he did when pressed on the Iraq war one interview. "Obama is making us less safe, Obama is bad, Obama balh, blah, blah...." "SO" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #155 May 16, 2009 QuoteQuote I don't think we'll continue to hear from him since it seems Obama's administration is backing away from doing whatever they can to continually embarass the Bush administration. If open accountability for Cheney and Bush is embarrassing them, it's not anyone's fault but their own. If it were truly open then that would be a valid argument, which is why Cheney spoke up in the first place. Choice, edited documents were released. There was no open accountability. Cheap shots and a witch hunt are all that's happened so far. Cheney called for the rest of the documents to be released and Obama resisted and has now decided to stop releasing anymore crap. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #156 May 16, 2009 Quote If it were truly open then that would be a valid argument, which is why Cheney spoke up in the first place. Choice, edited documents were released. There was no open accountability. Cheap shots and a witch hunt are all that's happened so far. Cheney called for the rest of the documents to be released and Obama resisted and has now decided to stop releasing anymore crap. What Cheney wants released are a couple of documents that are part of an ongoing lawsuit. He says they show that torture was effective. Regardless of the reality that it's been proven that torture is counterproductive, it's illegal. Even if it did work, it's illegal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #157 May 16, 2009 CNN's John Roberts Fails to Press Gore on Bush Criticism Whopper By Matthew Balan (Bio | Archive) May 15, 2009 - 17:14 ET CNN anchor John Roberts failed to catch former Vice President Al Gore make a significant exaggeration about his criticism of the Bush administration in its early years during an interview on Friday’s American Morning. When asked about former Vice President Dick Cheney’s recent criticism of the Obama administration, Gore claimed that he had “waited two years after I left office to make statements that were critical, and then of the policy.” In reality, he made a significant policy speech denouncing the Bush administration’s pre-war policy towards Iraq in September 2002. CNN itself reported on the speech, which was made in San Francisco in front of the Commonwealth Club. Later, when Gore said that he didn’t “want to get dragged into an argument with Dick Cheney about what he’s getting into,” Roberts joked sarcastically, “Oh, Mr. Vice President, you know I would never try to do that with you.” Roberts’s taped interview of Gore aired in three parts, and his questions to Gore about Cheney came during the second part, which began at the bottom half of the 7 pm Eastern hour of the CNN program. The anchor asked the former vice president, “You were a big critic of the previous administration, particularly in the run-up to the war and thereafter. What do you think of Vice President Cheney’s statements that the Obama administration’s policies are leaving this country less safe?”"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #158 May 16, 2009 Quote What Cheney wants released are a couple of documents that are part of an ongoing lawsuit. If they were going to release some pages (which they shouldn't) then they should release all. Quote He says they show that torture was effective. He said some of their techniques were effective. The accusation of torture depends on your definition of the word. QuoteRegardless of the reality that it's been proven that torture is counterproductive, it's illegal. Even if it did work, it's illegal. Absolutely. I'm 100% against torture in all cases. Not only has it proven ineffective, it's inhumane and sick. Not torturing is what seperates us from the bad guys. We value human life and they do not. However, I don't think the techniques that have so far been released are torture. Sleep deprivation, standing up until allowed to sit down, some water in the face while the red cross supervises, etc. are not torture in my opinion. If they were successful then the documents need to be released along with the rest of them. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #159 May 16, 2009 Quote However, I don't think the techniques that have so far been released are torture. Sleep deprivation, standing up until allowed to sit down, some water in the face while the red cross supervises, etc. are not torture in my opinion. If they were successful then the documents need to be released along with the rest of them. So now waterboarding has become "some water in the face". Redefining words doesn't work on this forum. Waterboarding is TORTURE. Your attempts to justify it just make you look bad.If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #160 May 16, 2009 QuoteQuote However, I don't think the techniques that have so far been released are torture. Sleep deprivation, standing up until allowed to sit down, some water in the face while the red cross supervises, etc. are not torture in my opinion. If they were successful then the documents need to be released along with the rest of them. So now waterboarding has become "some water in the face". Redefining words doesn't work on this forum. Ok. I don't consider waterboarding torture. Waterboarding is water in the face, btw. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #161 May 16, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote However, I don't think the techniques that have so far been released are torture. Sleep deprivation, standing up until allowed to sit down, some water in the face while the red cross supervises, etc. are not torture in my opinion. If they were successful then the documents need to be released along with the rest of them. So now waterboarding has become "some water in the face". Redefining words doesn't work on this forum. Ok. I don't consider waterboarding torture. Waterboarding is water in the face, btw. See the Jesse Ventura interview upthread. Personally I take the word of someone (and a non-partisan someone at that) who has been waterboarded (he said in no unclear terms that it is in fact torture) over the word of someone like yourself (a guy who hasn't been waterboarded, who clearly has bias). Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carmenc 0 #162 May 16, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote However, I don't think the techniques that have so far been released are torture. Sleep deprivation, standing up until allowed to sit down, some water in the face while the red cross supervises, etc. are not torture in my opinion. If they were successful then the documents need to be released along with the rest of them. So now waterboarding has become "some water in the face". Redefining words doesn't work on this forum. Ok. I don't consider waterboarding torture. Waterboarding is water in the face, btw. Having your fingernails pulled out is a manicure, btw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carmenc 0 #163 May 17, 2009 QuoteIn reality, he made a significant policy speech denouncing the Bush administration’s pre-war policy towards Iraq in September 2002. And Cheney waited how long to start slinging mud? 3 months? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #164 May 17, 2009 Quote Quote In reality, he made a significant policy speech denouncing the Bush administration’s pre-war policy towards Iraq in September 2002. And Cheney waited how long to start slinging mud? 3 months? What mud? He has not gone after anybody who did not start it first! i have to admit I am enjoying this"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #165 May 17, 2009 Quote to start slinging mud "speaking truth to power"?? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carmenc 0 #166 May 17, 2009 Quote Quote to start slinging mud "speaking truth to power"?? So that's what you think Gore did. OK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,994 #167 May 19, 2009 >Waterboarding is water in the face, btw. So is drowning. Heck, being beaten to death is just being touched. And who has a problem with being touched, other than non-touchy-feely liberals? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #168 May 20, 2009 Quote>Waterboarding is water in the face, btw. So is drowning. Heck, being beaten to death is just being touched. And who has a problem with being touched, other than non-touchy-feely liberals? Besides the fact that drowning and being beaten cause injury and death... -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #169 May 20, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoqmH49VBC0 start at about 1:50 for the pertinent stuff. Recall some facts. 1. He was a SEAL. 2. SEALS take SERE school. 3. SEALS also have a portion of their training where they are in a pool and must submit to DROWNING...so i would think if anyone knows what drowning is like...it's probably a SEAL. so when a former SEAL says waterboarding is torture, it is DROWNING....do you just not care? because he disagrees with Dick Cheney?Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #170 May 20, 2009 Then why do we torture our own troops?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #171 May 20, 2009 come on, i'm not taking your bait. Ask Senator McCain or any other of our troops who have been POWs.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #172 May 20, 2009 Hey, YOU are the one saying that it's torture and illegal - WHY are you not making an equal howl over the government torturing our own soldiers for the last 30 YEARS???Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #173 May 20, 2009 QuoteThen why do we torture our own troops? Soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines, die in training - is that murder? No, Soldiers, sailors, airmen, & Marines are exposed to live chemical agents at the CDTF at Ft Leonard Wood - are they the same as the victims at Halabjah? No, of course not. The use of waterboarding in SERE training was based on torture methods used by the North Korean Communists (& others) against US service members to elicit false confessions. The US military uses waterboarding as part of SERE training to resist torture, i.e., tacitly acknowledging it is *torture.* It's training to resist torture. It was not intended as an instructional manual for interrogation. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #174 May 20, 2009 QuoteIt was not intended as an instructional manual for interrogation. The only person I see making that claim is BikerBabe.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #175 May 20, 2009 huh? do you even read my posts? My claim is the exact same one that Marg is making....she just happened to be here while I was away eating dinner. Every post i've made has asked the same question. Why do people insist on thinking that SERE is a place we go to learn how to torture? It's not. It's a place we go to learn how to resist torture. It's a rather large difference.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
