Pelosi's in some deep doo doo

[TomAiello 26]

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When it comes to propagating lies, the CIA is far better at it than almost anyone or anything else. After all, they do it for a living.

While I disagree with much of his politics, Leon Panetta is probably the most honest person in government service. His personal integrity (and ethics) are light years above Nancy Pelosi's.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Darius11 12]

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But I am getting tired of the jaywalker getting the ticket while the bank robber gets away.

That i agree with my friend

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Just watched the press conference snippets and commentary linked below. She was squirming like a dying worm. This is going to be interesting as it plays out.

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=5046242&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/

Prosecute her to the fullest extent the law will allow. Of course, to do that you also have to prosecute Cheney and Bush for war crimes, but I'm fine with everyone involved going to prison.

I agree with you.

When Germany invaded Poland in 1939, they went to great lengths to fabricate a casus belli by faking an attack on a radio station near the border.

The fact that we invaded Iraq without anything approaching the Third Reich's claim to legitimacy is disquieting. That we then proceeded to conduct ourselves in a manner contrary to a laundry list of treaties and accords - many of which we were not only signatories but authors - is simply appalling.

If we were willing to throw Dick Nixon out of office for actions that are trivial by comparison, we should hold this crowd entirely responsible for completely violating their oaths of office.

Not bloody likely, I'll admit, but well justified.


Blue skies,

Winsor

The liberals and fascists (but I repeat myself)in this country wanted him crucified (literally)

Now they make excuses for people who have done things a thousand times worse.

[carmenc 0]

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When it comes to propagating lies, the CIA is far better at it than almost anyone or anything else. After all, they do it for a living.

While I disagree with much of his politics, Leon Panetta is probably the most honest person in government service. His personal integrity (and ethics) are light years above Nancy Pelosi's.

That's true, but Panetta was not present during the briefings, nor does he have any way of knowing the accuracy of the reports he quoted.

I don't like Pelosi and if she resigned it would please me, but it's not Panetta's credibility against hers, it the credibility of the people who wrote the reports against hers, and torturers have no credibility in my book.

[lawrocket 3]

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I think Newt pretty much nailed it.

This is the same Congress that said they were lied to about the Iraq war. That they weren't told.

Yeah. They weren't told. They didn't know. They were lied to.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[1969912 0]

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I think Newt pretty much nailed it.

This is the same Congress that said they were lied to about the Iraq war. That they weren't told.

Yeah. They weren't told. They didn't know. They were lied to.

The war just popped up out of the blue. Magically appeared. They were caught completely unaware. These things happen all the time.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[carmenc 0]

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I think Newt pretty much nailed it.

This is the same Congress that said they were lied to about the Iraq war. That they weren't told.

Yeah. They weren't told. They didn't know. They were lied to.

You don't know what they were told, nor if it was accurate and complete, nor if they were informed that there was contrary intelligence.

[lawrocket 3]

We're aren't talking about the credibility of torturers. Pelosi has now finally ADMITTED to being told about it. Her NEW STORY is that she felt powerless to do anything.
Yeah. We believe you, Madame Speaker. You have demonstrated the integrity and respect for truthful stated recollections of events of Chris Dodd!

I ALWAYS advise my clients to tell the TRUTH. Even if they think it makes them look bad, tell the truth. Don't lie. Because being up front is better than getting caught with the truth and lieing about it.

Pelosi fucked up. Big.

Think of the tobacco leaders. "Do you believe nicotine is addictive?"
"Yes. Nicotine is why people use our product. It's what people want and we give it to them."
"Did you alter the level of nicotine in your product?"
"Hell, yeah. That's why the public buys our product. We give them what they want."
"Even knowing the problems?"
"Yes. Brandy is concentrated wine. Distillers distill. They take the alcohol from their product and concentrate it. Why the hell do you think we added nicotine? Because people want it."

Ollie North showed how brutal honesty can change a person from the most hated man in America to the subject of the "OLLYWOOD" sign.

He was honest. "Did you lie to Congress?"
"Yes I did."

Ahnold faces allegations of sexual harassment. "It's true." Story over. No lies to start it. He dundiddit. He never denied it.

Pelosi - you fucking idiot. And had you juist shut your big Napa mouth you's not be in trouble. But you ran your mouth about the issue. People remembered, "Wait. She was there. Then she lied again. Then there comes the evidence.

Dumb ass...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Like a hammer on a nail Jerry!

[carmenc 0]

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"Wait. She was there. Then she lied again. Then there comes the evidence.

Dumb ass...

What evidence? Panetta is only stating what he's been told, as he was not present at the time. Don't you lawyers have a word for that kind of "evidence"?

[rushmc 23]

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I think Newt pretty much nailed it.

I agree

She has been fun to see.

A lobster squirms less in a bucket of boiling water

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

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I think Newt pretty much nailed it.

This is the same Congress that said they were lied to about the Iraq war. That they weren't told.

Yeah. They weren't told. They didn't know. They were lied to.

You don't know what they were told, nor if it was accurate and complete, nor if they were informed that there was contrary intelligence.

You're right. I just know what a Congressman told me when I talked with him mono a mono, tete a tete, when he was talking in November 0E about why we are going to war. And I told him that his reasoning is ridiculous.

"The people are oppressed."
"It's worse in Noko."
"There's nothing in NoKo."
"So it's about oil."
"No. It IS part of the equation. But the are trying to build nukes."
"NoKo built nukes. We know it. So that's bullshit."
"We can't win conventional war with NoKo. If that happened they'd take Seoul in 3 days."
"So it's not about our threats. Everything you've said means we should be going after NoKo. But we won't. That means we are picking a fight we think can win. Don King would be proud."
"No. The whole region is unstable."
"No it isn't. Nothing's changed in the region since 1979. That's almost 25 years of knowing exactly what we've got. We don't like what we have but it's stable."
"Look. You know what you're talking about. We're there to clean up the block. 'Broken windows.'. We're gonna fix that broken window and the rest of the region will follow."
"And of course, the American people won't support massive deployment necessary for that. So terrorism works, right?"
"We're cleaning up the block."

Somehow, especially in light of the way this whole conflict panned out, it makes sense that this was a sociological experiment. And Congress knew about it. I know this because a Congressman (actually, he was ex-congressman at the time) knew about it.

And the rest of Congress didn't? Bullshit.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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"Wait. She was there. Then she lied again. Then there comes the evidence.

Dumb ass...

What evidence? Panetta is only stating what he's been told, as he was not present at the time. Don't you lawyers have a word for that kind of "evidence"?

Follow the bouncing ball -
[B]PELOSI ADMITTED KNOWING ABOUT IT ON THURSDAY

An admission is an evidentiary burning bush. She admitted it.

Just like Dodd finally admitted to inserting the executive bonus language.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[carmenc 0]

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"Wait. She was there. Then she lied again. Then there comes the evidence.

Dumb ass...

What evidence? Panetta is only stating what he's been told, as he was not present at the time. Don't you lawyers have a word for that kind of "evidence"?

Follow the bouncing ball -
[B]PELOSI ADMITTED KNOWING ABOUT IT ON THURSDAY

An admission is an evidentiary burning bush. She admitted it.

Just like Dodd finally admitted to inserting the executive bonus language.

Clearly we are at cross-purposes. My initial post related to post#26 this thread on the topic of Panetta and his statement.

As far as your claim about her admitting it on Thursday, strange that yesterday she said “My criticism of the manner in which the Bush administration did not appropriately inform Congress is separate from my respect for those in the intelligence community who work to keep our country safe,”

Kind of a strange admission, I'd say.

[mnealtx 0]

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strange that yesterday she said “My criticism of the manner in which the Bush administration did not appropriately inform Congress is separate from my respect for those in the intelligence community who work to keep our country safe,”

Yeah, except for that whole bit on Thursday about how "the CIA misleads us all the time" - what, did she think Bush pulled agents aside in the middle of the brief to tell them to lie to her or something?

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Kind of a strange admission, I'd say.

Not really....she's scrambling to save face.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[tbrown 26]

Newt actually makes a really good point:
"Speaker Pelosi's the big loser, because she either comes across as incompetent, or dishonest. Those are the only two defenses," he continued. "The fact is, she either didn't do her job, or she did do her job and she's now afraid to tell the truth."

[lawrocket 3]

The CIA misleads all the time. That means that when she admitted that the CIA told her in 2003 about it, they were misleading her.

On the other hand, she knew they were misleading her in 2002 when they said they didn't.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jerryzflies 0]

A number of quotes varously attributed to Edmund Burke:

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for a few good men to do nothing
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for a few good men to do nothing
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for some good men to do nothing
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for all good men to do nothing
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that enough good men do nothing
All that is essential for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
All that is needed for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
All that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing
All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for enough good men to do nothing
All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing
All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
All that is required for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
All that is required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
The only thing needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing
The only thing needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
The only thing that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
The only thing that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
All that’s necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
All that’s needed for the forces of evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing
All that’s needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing
For evil to prosper all it needs is for good people to do nothing
All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing
All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing
All that is required for evil to triumph is for good [wo]men to do nothing
The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for enough good men [and women] to do nothing
The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men (and women!) to do nothing
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men (and women) do nothing
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men (and women) do nothing
For evil to triumph it is necessary only that good men [and women] do nothing
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to do nothing
All that it takes for the triumph of evil is that good men and women do nothing
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men and women to do nothing
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing
All that needs to be done for evil to prevail is that good men do nothing
The only thing that has to happen in this world for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
All that is necessary for evil to triumph in the world is for enough good men and women to do nothing
Evil thrives when good men do nothing
For evil to triumph good men need do nothing
For evil to triumph good men have to do nothing
The best way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
The surest way to assure the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
Evil will triumph so long as good men do nothing
It is necessary only for good men to say nothing for evil to triumph
It is necessary only for the good man to do nothing for evil to triumph
For evil to triumph it is necessary for good men to do nothing
For evil to triumph it is sufficient for good men to do nothing
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing
All that is necessary for the forces of evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
All that is required for evil to triumph over good is for good men to do nothing
Evil can triumph only if good men do nothing
The only thing evil men need to triumph is for good men to do nothing
The only thing for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for enough good men to do nothing
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men stand by and do nothing
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil was for good men to do nothing
The only way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
Evil prevails when good men do nothing

In this case the EVIL people are clearly the Bush administration officials who made a policy of torture.

Don't confuse them with the good people who, for various reasons, did nothing when they should have done something.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[TomAiello 26]

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...it's not Panetta's credibility against hers, it the credibility of the people who wrote the reports against hers, and torturers have no credibility in my book.

1) I have no idea who wrote the reports or if they were actually involved in the interrogations on a personal level. Can you point me at that information?

2) Panetta is in a position to investigate the matter himself, and has access to all the records and most of the personnel involved. I trust that he knows whereof he speaks, because I don't think he'd make a written, public statement without knowing.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[lawrocket 3]

Oh. There is no doubt in my mind that the Bush admin is the primary wrongdoer. Congress (and Pelosi) did not do any of the affirmative acts that resulted in the "enhanced interrogation techniques" (calling it this, of course, is a good hint to exactly what it is. Leon Spinx excelled at delivering "fatherly affectionate taps" in the ring.)

But make no mistake why Pelosi is in trouble - she lied. Her suggestions about being lied to suggest that she could have done something about it. "Had the CIA been truthful to me and to us we would have prevented and stopped it." This is the underlying statement.

She lied. She could have done something. She could have said something. She did not. Then she claimed she wasn't told. She finally admitted she was told and now tries to deflect it.

That's not the same level of evil as the proponents. She's the parent whose teenaged kid says "I've been raiding the liquor cabinet and driving the Porsche." When the kid crashes and kills a family of 4, the mother says, "I didn't know he was doing it."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[TankBuster 0]

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In this case the EVIL people are clearly the Bush administration officials who made a policy of torture.

Don't confuse them with the good people who, for various reasons, did nothing when they should have done something.

Hmm. First of all, if you think the CIA started waterboarding people only during the Bush administration, you are extremely naive. That makes for many evil administrations. So the Bush administration is evil because they consulted the CIA, justice department officials, key members of congress, and others and made the decision to do what was necessary (on three high level detainees whom they believed had timely, actionable intelligence) to obtain information that would save American lives. I don't believe that to be evil. It's a tough decision made by several in the upper echelons of our government. Including, apparently, Ms. Pelosi. Unfortunately, she is too accustomed to the amnesia suffered by much of her electorate, and applied it too generally when she got on the Bush bashing bandwagon. Fortunately, the CIA is composed of very intelligent, highly trained, disciplined people. They take very good notes. Thanks Leon, for standing with your men.

Has everyone posting here actually read the DoJ memo?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/bush-torture-memos-releas_n_187867.html

Do it, and while you read it the first time imagine Bush and Cheney and all of his evil henchmen doing the interrogations and torture simply because they hate innocent people. Ah yes "the Bush Torture Policy," and "Bush Torture Memos" are great headlines and great words of propaganda. Even though it's equally as true, you'll probably never see headlines or hear the words "Pelosi Torture Methods."

Then read it again, and imagine one of the recipients of this torture/interrogation being Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who admitted to both planning the attacks of 9/11 and personally beheading Daniel Pearl. Or of one of the recipients being Mohand al-Shehri, who slit the throat of a flight attendant to prove to the passengers he was serious, and then slit the throats of pilots Victor Saracini and Michael Horrocks.

These are the Pelosi Torture methods. And if they are used to exact revenge, they are wrong. But if used to gain actionable intelligence from terrorists, I thank Ms. Pelosi.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[skybill 22]

Hi "69,"
'Sure wouldn't want to be the pilot or aircrew on her flights to and from CA for a while!!!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[1969912 0]

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Hi "69,"
'Sure wouldn't want to be the pilot or aircrew on her flights to and from CA for a while!!!!

That's pretty bad. But funny.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[skybill 22]

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Hi "69,"
'Sure wouldn't want to be the pilot or aircrew on her flights to and from CA for a while!!!!

That's pretty bad. But funny.

Hi "69"
"What evil lurks in the minds of our Power Political Players in WashDC??" "Only the Shadow Knows!" (evil laugh sound track!!) At this point in time, Nancy is her own worst enemy because she keeps "TALKING!!" We saw her "lose it" at the press conference or what ever the other day!! This whole trip may get to be more fun than Watergate!! She likes to yak so much, after she gets forced to resign, she can write a (joke)Book!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[happythoughts 0]

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But make no mistake why Pelosi is in trouble - she lied.

Pelosi isn't in trouble. There is no DEM supporter on this forum
who has any problem with lying.
The three excuses are:
- She had a good reason.
- Everybody does it.
- DEMs don't worry about character. Not a tiny bit.

Don't we remember the recent Hillary campaign?
She lied about something every week during her campaign.
The DEMs didn't even begin to care. They were going to vote for her.

Of course, her hubby lied under oath. No big deal there either.

DEMs only regard dishonesty as a problem when it is a REP that is caught doing it. It is actually not a problem then either,
it is just a political opportunity.