Is waterboarding torture?

[carmenc 0]

We had a poll on partisanship and support of torture:

www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3468253#3468253

A few of our posters (rushmc, FallingOsh) claim waterboarding is not torture. I think it clearly IS torture.

What do you think?

(And no pussyfooting about whether or not the Red Cross is present making a difference.)

[kellja2001 0]

Wikipedia says so, so it must be true!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

On a serious note though, I cannot believe people even consider this a debate.

If you are going to argue it isn't, can I respectfully suggest you have a friend do it to you, then come back and say it isn't torture?

[rushmc 23]

Depends on which version you speak of

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

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Depends on which version you speak of

I'm pretty sure the version your "friends" perform on your is quite a bit different than the ones your "enemies" would. Not necessarily even in actual technique, but certainly in your belief as to whether or not they'd continue it to your death.

See, that's the thing about Hannity and his disingenuous offer to try it, he KNOWs the people that might do it aren't going to let him die.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[masterblaster72 0]

Here is a video demonstration of waterboarding.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[rhys 0]

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Depends on which version you speak of

I really don't mind if I get banned for life from this forum for saying this;

You are a complete asshole if you think this type of behaviour (waterboarding) is acceptable in any form. It really does not surprise me that you think this way and it is consistent with being the contrary to my beliefs on so many levels.

Thank you for the clarification.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[MikeForsythe 0]

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You are a complete asshole if you think this type of behaviour (waterboarding) is acceptable in any form.

And you think that your typical PA gives you any credibility? Is that really the best intellectual response that you can give? Do you think that your continued persecution is acceptable in any form?

Thanks for making it clear that you are in favor of killing (abortion) but against waterboarding.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[rhys 0]

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And you think that your typical PA gives you any credibility?

no, I'm not here for credibility.

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Is that really the best intellectual response that you can give?

No, it was my instinct that gave me that response, I have wasted many hours discussing varous subjects, with various people in these forums and have learned that it is often a waste of time. Though I have learned many things and have corrected my standpoint on various subjects due to discussions here, I know that those with such strong standpoints such as torture boy here, are not worth debating with.

He clarified my standpoint himself.

I can choose what i think of people and I have the right to think what i want, I will not tell the fat cunt in wendies having a burger, a full stack with sausage and bacon on the side and a super duper large coke with free refill for breakfast that they are a fat cunt and a burden on society(let alone thier families), but I sure do have the right to think it.

The same applies here.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[lawrocket 3]

I think there are reasonable arguments to suggest that it is not torture. I think there are fewer reasonable arguments to suggest that it is.

Just one reasonable argument that it is torture seals the deal for me - even with 99 arguments that is is not. Heck, maybe even asking the question means it is.

I believe it is torture.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[sfc 1]

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Depends on which version you speak of

You sound just like Clinton except he was referring to not have "sexual relations" with his intern.

Clinton was full of shit when he said this and was trying to weasel out of admitting he was doing wrong by arguing the meaning of sex.

Bush/Chaney/republicans are doing exactly the same thing with regards to waterboarding and like a good republican follower you believe it and defend them to the same degree that devout democrats defend Clinton.
Your party must be proud of you.

[rwieder 0]

IMO it is not torture. Bula-Bula is torture. Certain tactics were devised to obtain information that could not be extracted any other way.

While these SOB's electricute their POW (Our Soldiers) you guys have the nerve to call waterboarding torture. Good thing you don't know the rest of the story or you'd really be raising hell. Put your Big Boy & Big girl panties on, and try not to be so emotional. Your talking about a country that still utilizes public hangings, beheadings, stockades and the like. What about our soldiers they killed, drug through the streets being pulled by an SUV, then hung them from a bridge, is that torture? Well, if it is it would seem to me there sure is a lot of jaded views here, think about it.

After all, "Alls Fair In Love & War"

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[ironmule 0]

I never understood why torture is such a big deal while killing enemy or civilians is not.
Can someone elaborate and explain me?

[warpedskydiver 0]

We feel the same about you.



Get a life, be happy and quit whining.

You have probably caused more people on this forum to refrain from trusting or helping new friends than any person on here.

I know for a fact you have hurt the feelings of one very special person, in fact that person has done more for others than you will ever comprehend.

Piss off.

I wish I could drag your whining as through a few cemeteries on Memorial Day.

I would not doubt you just use that day to have a party or enjoy yourself.

[kellja2001 0]

People clearly haven't read the question.

The question is: "Is waterboarding torture?"

The question isn't, "Is torture right?", "Is torture better than killing people?", "How can abortion be acceptable when torture isn't?", to name but a few of the questions people have asked in this thread.

My dictionary at home defines torture as:

torture

VERB [tr]
1. To cause extreme physical pain to, esp in order to extract information, break resistance, etc.: to torture prisoners.
2. to give mental anguish to.
3. to twist into a grotesque form.

NOUN
4. physical or mental anguish
5. the practice of torturing a person
6. a cause of mental agony or worry.

HISTORY
C16: from Late Latin tortura a twisting, from torquere to twist

If you take "1." to be the most valid definition of torture for this question, then there is no valid counter-argument.

Waterboarding is torture.

I'm not going to discuss the morality behind that, because that isn't the question that was asked.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Furthermore I know men who have suffered far more in order for you and those like you to live free and be able to piss and moan about how bad we are.


I wish you could live in their shoes and feel what they have or what they have gone through for just one day.

You would probably hang yourself.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Instead of drinking beer and having a good ole time like you, people like me and many others will honor Memorial day with tears in our eyes and the thought in our heads of why we could not have traded places with the fallen.

My life is not very important, but theirs were, they deserved more, all they got in return is a grave and the certain knowledge that whining pieces of shot would rather piss on their memories instead of appreciating what was done for them.

[warpedskydiver 0]

If you would like to discuss this or berate me in some childish manner please let me know.

I will give you my address and you can come on over for a chat.

[kellja2001 0]

Dude...

I think you're arguing with yourself...

[warpedskydiver 0]

Whatever.

Do you disagree with what I said?


I get sick and tired of reading his hateful rhetoric and his inability to comprehend what others are trying to tell him.

[Andy9o8 2]

Maybe we should re-phrase the question for you, to make it clear:

Is waterboarding torture?

[DARK 0]

of course its torture that dosnt mean its wrong absolutely all of the time imo

[warpedskydiver 0]

I have addressed this in the past.


Sorry if my tolerance for bullshit and childish attacks on good people is much lower than yours.

If you can tolerate it good for you, if you agree with it shame on you.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I have addressed this in the past.


Sorry if my tolerance for bullshit and childish attacks on good people is much lower than yours.

If you can tolerate it good for you, if you agree with it shame on you.

So address it now with a simple, direct answer.

As usual, this has de-volved into an anger management thread.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Whatever you say Andy you seem to think you are the self professed expert on telling people what to think and who they are.

I do not think water boarding is a torture IMHO.

It is a technique for causing duress or pushing a person to the point of believing that they may be taken a step further.

Actual drowning is a torture, to make one believe they are being drowned is not.

The Japanese in WWII used water boarding, but actually did not employ it in the proper manner.

Many times they actually did drown or kill the subject and that was actual torture.

It was not employed in a professional or technical circumstance and therefore was in fact torture.

I have a few friends that might have been employed at one time in the Intelligence community.

They are adamant they they would not use actual torture because it is of no use.

Playing mind games is much more beneficial in gathering information.

To make someone believe they will be tortured is not torture.


When you graduate from Intel school, whether it be here in the USA, or in the British School, let me know and I will put you in touch with people who may have been instructors at the aforementioned institutions.

Then you will have a basis to engage in a discourse of your beliefs and have actual logic or facts to support your assertions.

until then you are only going to post assertions of others who may not actually be experts on the subject.

If your threshold of expertise is such that you will put such credence into what you read on the internet and you use that metric in court you might be sorrowfully mistaken in your choice.

If you relied upon someone who was an academic doing a research paper on this topic, without actual experience in the field, you would simply fall short of providing a true expert.

[TomAiello 26]

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You are a complete asshole...

This is a personal attack. I've banned you from this forum for 14 days.

WarpedSkydiver, I'm also banning you, also for 14 days.

Take some time and cool off guys. This is an internet discussion. It's not worth getting that angry over.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com