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rhaig 0
QuoteQuote
I'm not arguing the fact that knives are dangerous, but rather this comment, "I'm glad I don't have to deal with trigger locks or safes tonight." This relates back to your original post. Will I ever keep a gun in my house? Very unlikely, though I see no reason to abolish the entire 2nd amendment. I'm certain you're aware, however, of the statistics on gun theft from homes and vehicles (or even accidental shootings among children by way of their parent's unsecured weapons).
Trigger locks have no bearing on theft. Smaller safes won't either - steal it all and open later.
Kids aren't applicable if they don't exist in the house.
100% true.
I have several guns. never had them secured until I had kids. wasn't worried about them being stolen because most of the time when I left they went with me.
Now I have kids and a job where I can't carry to work. I have a locking cabinet.
--
Rob
Rob
beqa 0
It would only take a matter of moments for a criminal to break into most homes. If nothing else, windows are breakable. Everyone seems to think that the cops will be there instantly when they call 911. Well guess what? It takes about the same amount of time to grab a gun and the phone, and I can garentee you don't have to wait 15 to 20 minutes for the gun to show up.
Where I live, it could take that long or longer for officers to get to my home. You also have to realize that most police forces in the US are getting cut back because of buget cuts. So, there could be less officers to reply to your call. What if there are only say two on duty; one is across town; one is already taking care of something important like an deadly car accident.
Now, you are at home, with someone breaking, or already in your house, and you have to wrangle with the gun lock, or worse, you don't even own a weapon to use to defend yourself..... What are you gonna do? Grab a knife, which will prolly just piss the criminal off when you can't seriously injure him, just hurt him a little? Grab the baseball bat, and smack him silly, and later be sued and pay his hospital bills?
I think you need to seariously think about your perception of reality. Crime happens to random people, who don't expect it. It isn't paranoid to be prepared. It is being smart.
Where I live, it could take that long or longer for officers to get to my home. You also have to realize that most police forces in the US are getting cut back because of buget cuts. So, there could be less officers to reply to your call. What if there are only say two on duty; one is across town; one is already taking care of something important like an deadly car accident.
Now, you are at home, with someone breaking, or already in your house, and you have to wrangle with the gun lock, or worse, you don't even own a weapon to use to defend yourself..... What are you gonna do? Grab a knife, which will prolly just piss the criminal off when you can't seriously injure him, just hurt him a little? Grab the baseball bat, and smack him silly, and later be sued and pay his hospital bills?
I think you need to seariously think about your perception of reality. Crime happens to random people, who don't expect it. It isn't paranoid to be prepared. It is being smart.
quade 4
QuoteI think you need to seariously think about your perception of reality.
And yet the home invasion robbery is actually one of the least likely to happen crimes.
Seriously, most criminals would MUCH rather break into an unoccupied home. Your best protection might actually be a loud stereo and a barking dog that would stop them from even considering it in the first place.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen occasionally, but generally speaking, it's not actually worth worrying about.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
billvon 2,991
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>Now, you are at home, with someone breaking, or already in your house, and
>you have to wrangle with the gun lock, or worse, you don't even own a weapon to
>use to defend yourself..... What are you gonna do?
Run. Go to a neighbor's house and call the cops. Drive away.
> Grab a knife, which will prolly just piss the criminal off when you can't seriously
>injure him . . .
Well, then, why are you worried about a knife-wielding thief if knives can't seriously injure anyone? (And if he has a gun, getting in a shootout is a very bad idea.)
>Grab the baseball bat, and smack him silly, and later be sued and pay his
>hospital bills?
If you are afraid of being sued for defending yourself, then adding a gun to the equation would be the worst thing you could do. If you were to shoot a criminal, wound him, see him fall, and then blow a few holes in his head so you wouldn't get sued - you would be going to jail for a long, long time. It's one thing to use deadly force to stop someone from harming you. It's quite another to murder a fallen man.
If you want to own a gun, by all means, do so. But if you think that makes you so badass that you can just pull your gun and stop any criminal faster than Dirty Harry, and without having to deal with anything afterwards - that's about as smart as a skydiver who buys an AAD so he doesn't have to pull.
>you have to wrangle with the gun lock, or worse, you don't even own a weapon to
>use to defend yourself..... What are you gonna do?
Run. Go to a neighbor's house and call the cops. Drive away.
> Grab a knife, which will prolly just piss the criminal off when you can't seriously
>injure him . . .
Well, then, why are you worried about a knife-wielding thief if knives can't seriously injure anyone? (And if he has a gun, getting in a shootout is a very bad idea.)
>Grab the baseball bat, and smack him silly, and later be sued and pay his
>hospital bills?
If you are afraid of being sued for defending yourself, then adding a gun to the equation would be the worst thing you could do. If you were to shoot a criminal, wound him, see him fall, and then blow a few holes in his head so you wouldn't get sued - you would be going to jail for a long, long time. It's one thing to use deadly force to stop someone from harming you. It's quite another to murder a fallen man.
If you want to own a gun, by all means, do so. But if you think that makes you so badass that you can just pull your gun and stop any criminal faster than Dirty Harry, and without having to deal with anything afterwards - that's about as smart as a skydiver who buys an AAD so he doesn't have to pull.
mnealtx 0
Quote>Now, you are at home, with someone breaking, or already in your house, and
>you have to wrangle with the gun lock, or worse, you don't even own a weapon to
>use to defend yourself..... What are you gonna do?
Run. Go to a neighbor's house and call the cops. Drive away.
> Grab a knife, which will prolly just piss the criminal off when you can't seriously
>injure him . . .
Well, then, why are you worried about a knife-wielding thief if knives can't seriously injure anyone? (And if he has a gun, getting in a shootout is a very bad idea.)
>Grab the baseball bat, and smack him silly, and later be sued and pay his
>hospital bills?
If you are afraid of being sued for defending yourself, then adding a gun to the equation would be the worst thing you could do. If you were to shoot a criminal, wound him, see him fall, and then blow a few holes in his head so you wouldn't get sued - you would be going to jail for a long, long time. It's one thing to use deadly force to stop someone from harming you. It's quite another to murder a fallen man.
If you want to own a gun, by all means, do so. But if you think that makes you so badass that you can just pull your gun and stop any criminal faster than Dirty Harry, and without having to deal with anything afterwards - that's about as smart as a skydiver who buys an AAD so he doesn't have to pull.
Nice hyperbole there, Bill. At least you didn't have Granny doing those judo flips on the burglar like before.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
tbrown 26
Clearly an infringement on the right to bear arms, which is specifically proscribed by the Second Amendment.
I say this with some great emotional difficulty, as we are familiar with a situation where we lived in Washington state, where a 6 year old boy accidenty shot his 3 year old sister in the head with a loaded revolver he found in their home. There was clearly a lapse of responsibility somewhere in that home and the consequences will go on as long as the kid lives (the little girl died, her brother is seriously fucked up emotionally).
I hope the lawsuit wins, as the City of San Francisco obviously feels that only criminals should have unrestricted use of firearms.
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
I say this with some great emotional difficulty, as we are familiar with a situation where we lived in Washington state, where a 6 year old boy accidenty shot his 3 year old sister in the head with a loaded revolver he found in their home. There was clearly a lapse of responsibility somewhere in that home and the consequences will go on as long as the kid lives (the little girl died, her brother is seriously fucked up emotionally).
I hope the lawsuit wins, as the City of San Francisco obviously feels that only criminals should have unrestricted use of firearms.
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
Skyrad 0
So why would you support a ruling that will certainly lead to another little girls death?
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
QuoteSo why would you support a ruling that will certainly lead to another little girls death?
Nice loaded question. How about this? Can you pass me a law that would guarantee that another little girl would ever suffer death from a firearm? Remember it's for the childern.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
Skyrad 0
Of course no law would totally prevent such a incident but compliance to a law that required firearms to be secured when not in use would certainly reduce such incidents. In one county alone (Miami Dade) in a 4 year period there were 128 children accidentally killed by firearms. Anything that can be done to reduce such figures should be done.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/111/4/741
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/111/4/741
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Did you misread this, or did you just parrot something someone else wrote (ie, lied) about it?
"Results. There were 123 pediatric firearm deaths in Miami-Dade County from 1994 to 1998. A significant difference between ME coding and the intent-based classification was found for homicide (94 vs 78) but not for suicide. A significant difference was also found between the ME’s coding for "accident" and the investigator’s classification of "unintentional" firearm death (4 vs 26)."
That's 26 (or 4), not 128. And note that pediatric means 0-17 years, and the vast majority were at the high end of this range (ie, teenagers).
"Results. There were 123 pediatric firearm deaths in Miami-Dade County from 1994 to 1998. A significant difference between ME coding and the intent-based classification was found for homicide (94 vs 78) but not for suicide. A significant difference was also found between the ME’s coding for "accident" and the investigator’s classification of "unintentional" firearm death (4 vs 26)."
That's 26 (or 4), not 128. And note that pediatric means 0-17 years, and the vast majority were at the high end of this range (ie, teenagers).
Skyrad 0
QuoteThis study shows that in 1 urban population, the incidence of unintended gun death among children is 6 times higher than current data sources suggest. These findings indicate that unintentional gun death is not to be discounted in prevention planning and that manner of death data should be used with caution in making any inference regarding the intentionality of a firearm death.
You are quite right I did mis-read it, in fact the number is 156
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Quote
And yet the home invasion robbery is actually one of the least likely to happen crimes.
Seriously, most criminals would MUCH rather break into an unoccupied home.
As you know quite well, it is the conviction of many here, supported by testimony by burglars, that it is the existence of loaded guns in the house that discourage home invasion robberies. In countries where no such right to self defense exists, that style of armed robbery is more common than we see.
That said, SoCal saw a marked increase in these sorts of incidents, with Vietnamese gangs known in particular for them.
Skyrad 0
QuoteIn countries where no such right to self defense exists, that style of armed robbery is more common than we see.
I call BS, Evidence please
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
QuoteQuoteThis study shows that in 1 urban population, the incidence of unintended gun death among children is 6 times higher than current data sources suggest. These findings indicate that unintentional gun death is not to be discounted in prevention planning and that manner of death data should be used with caution in making any inference regarding the intentionality of a firearm death.
That is their assertion.
But you took their conclusion and multiplied it by an additional factor of 5...ie, 30x the official metric, in order to promote the strength of your viewpoint.
Saying 128 kids in one county died in accidents sounds a lot better than 4, or even 26. But it's lying. So again, how did you so badly misread it? Or did you not?
Skyrad 0
Quote
That is their assertion.
QuoteHuh! you can proove anything with facts
Homer Simpson
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
QuoteQuoteIn countries where no such right to self defense exists, that style of armed robbery is more common than we see.
I call BS, Evidence please
It's extremely difficult to collect comparable data. Armed home robbery overlaps with armed robbery and with home burglary.
However, since you're already established we can make up statistics in this thread, I'm going to say the Brits are 6 times more likely to be victimized by a home invasion than us in the US, due to the inability to defend themselves. (4x if you buy the 'official' stats from the home office)
Skyrad 0
So when in doubt make some shit up. Very good.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
QuoteSo when in doubt make some shit up. Very good.
Worked for you, didn't it? Though you seem to have trouble admitting it.
Skyrad 0
My figures are based on a peer reviewed scientific paper in a respected medical journal. Yours are sucked out your thumb.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
QuoteMy figures are based on a peer reviewed scientific paper in a respected medical journal.
Mine were given to me by FedEx sent by Elvis from the his new alien spaceship.
See, you can really say anything on the internet and defend it to the death with out any consequence. That's part of the problem with Wikipedia, but at least on Wikipedia, unlike your posts, people typically cite their sources in an attempt to show accuracy.
Next, instead of a medical journal, how about a recognized national system for crime reporting. Possibly UCR numbers that completely disprove your posts. Oh, keeping with the spirit of your posts, I'm not going to cite any references either, but I'm also going to say that the facts prove you very wrong. Feel free to keep up your cite less drivel full of grossly inflated and falsified numbers, it is entertaining, even though its complete lies.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
There are obvious extremes in opinions as to what is "every precaution;" however, there is also an extreme as to what is acceptable for immediate emergency access. There is, though, a middle ground as to what is responsible gun ownership, without compromising personal safety in an immediate response emergency.
I have personally witnessed home owners hold off and in some cases detain an home invader at gun point. Saving their lives and well being, while waiting for LEO to respond and end the situation (with the arrest of the home invader). This I have personally witness more than a couple of times. This is also with the understanding that if no one is home, a burglar can and will steal anything they want. No matter how well secured the object is. Its a matter of motivation and time.
So its also a matter of total security.
Firstly, creating a habitation that is harder to burglarize then those around it. Obviously no home will be burglar proof, that is literally impossible. Secondly, having proper and proper lighting (although the majority of burglars occur during the day time). Having a functioning and activated security system that is monitored is also important. Home location and good neighbors (who will notify law enforcement of suspicious persons in the neighborhood) is also paramount. Bushes and landscaping play a role as well. Planting less than hospitable bushes (pointy, thorny, ect) that are high enough to block access to windows, but low enough to not easily conceal a person helps. As does attached and solidly secured screens on windows. Solid wood or metal doors with proper deadbolts and metal door frame reinforcement plates also helps.
All of those precautions does not make your home look any different to your neighbors to the average person. To a burglar, it makes not worth their time, when they can break into your neighbors home much easier.
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