billvon 2,998 #26 May 26, 2009 >Sure, the present administration appears weak internationally. They want to >want to "talk" and open up "dialog" . . . . Sounds good so far. >and give standing to terrorist and the countries 'that support them. ?? I believe it was the Bush Administration who cozied up to the warlord running Pakistan, where most of the Taliban moved after the invasion of Afghanistan. How odd that none of the right wingers here complained about that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #27 May 26, 2009 Quote >?? I believe it was the Bush Administration who cozied up to the warlord running Pakistan, where most of the Taliban moved after the invasion of Afghanistan. How odd that none of the right wingers here complained about that! why do you hate the Pakistanis? Is it because they are brown people? I think that's (the technique is kinda fun, you were just the first opportunity) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #28 May 27, 2009 It seems to me that it was the Europeans that created the state of Israel, not the United States. If you don't like what the Israelis are doing, then let Europe do something about it. Stop complaining to the U.S. "The modern state of Israel has its religious roots in the Biblical Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael), a concept central to Judaism since ancient times,[8][9] and the heartland of the ancient kingdoms of Israel and Judah.[10] Following the birth of political Zionism in 1897 and the Balfour Declaration, the League of Nations granted Britain the British Mandate of Palestine after World War I, with responsibility for establishing "...such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion..."[11] In November 1947 United Nations decided on partition of Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a UN-administered Jerusalem.[12""A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #29 May 27, 2009 WOOSH! Oh look there goes the point, just above your head When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #30 May 27, 2009 >why do you hate the Pakistanis? Is it because they are brown people? Nope, it's because I don't like their hats. No reasonable person wears hats any more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #31 May 28, 2009 Quote Israel needs to be cut off. They are a self-supporting entity in their own right and it is time for them to stand on their own. I have no idea why we spend so much money on them. Because they are our closest ally in the region. A true democracy, not an oil theocracy. And if we left them in a weakened state, their enemies would try to destroy them again, and the likely outcome of that is the use of nuclear weapons, which would fuck up the region, and cut off a big supply of oil. And last, because they are right. If we abandon our allies because it's hard, what good are we? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crustySCSA69 0 #32 May 28, 2009 Quote....... Some of us do. Then others believe the lies that tell us that we're just in the Gulf for the oil. can ya tell us some other reason to be there ??? oh, right ... the billions for KBR my mistake ... carry on Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crustySCSA69 0 #33 May 28, 2009 Quote........ their enemies would try to destroy them again, and the likely outcome of that is the use of nuclear weapons, ... nothing likely about it ... in the first Gulf War when Saddam started lobbing those crappy SCUDs at Israel this was on an NPR interview with the head of the Israeli Air Force. (I remember it word for word... I thought it quite important, and very Strangelovian) NPR:If one of these rockets has a biological or chemical weapon on it, what will Israel's response be ? Israeli General: If weapons of mass destruction are used against Israel there is no limit to Israel's response. NPR:n Does that mean Israel would use nuclear weapons?? Israeli General: If weapons of mass destruction are used against Israel there is no limit to Israel's response. gotta love those guys ... they take Never Again seriously Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #34 May 28, 2009 Quote Quote ....... Some of us do. Then others believe the lies that tell us that we're just in the Gulf for the oil. can ya tell us some other reason to be there ??? oh, right ... the billions for KBR my mistake ... carry on Yeah - and we're just in Bosnia and Kosovo for the billions to KBR. Damn, you found out the secret - they're going to have to kill you now.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crustySCSA69 0 #35 May 28, 2009 I am in AZ... I read about a local company (you'll get the time reference soon) that was interviewed in the local paper .. they were one of 2 companies in the country that 'armored up' HumVees when asked if they were swamped, they stated, no, we're running at about 50%.... 6 months later (and many dead Humvee riders) Rummy states (in Iraq) ..'We go to war with tghe army we have' ... well, yeah, if your attacked, otherwise, if you don't build the 'Army you need' you're a dumb shit.. 6 months later I read that armored Humvees are 'finally' starting to flood into Iraq... so for 2 year (leading up to invasion and after) , with people getting maimed and killed ... this company was waiting to 'armor up' more HumVees so what was the problem ?? it took a year to get the right political persuasion middleman in place before the orders could flow ??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #36 May 28, 2009 a true democracy - except that the entire system is based upon religion. Too bad we do not recognize the 'true democracy' that happened when the Palestinians elected Hamas overwhelmingly. You seem to have ignored the rest of my post. Our support has little to do with 'democracy' I think it has a lot to do with CHRISTIANITY. and we give one third of our foreign aid budget to one country......Israel. ridiculous. QuoteAnd last, because they are right. If we abandon our allies because it's hard, what good are we? they are right? That might be your opinion, I do not share it. If we focus most of our foreign aid on one country and ignore the rest that 'really need it', then what good are we? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #37 May 28, 2009 Quotea true democracy - except that the entire system is based upon religion. Too bad we do not recognize the 'true democracy' that happened when the Palestinians elected Hamas overwhelmingly. You seem to have ignored the rest of my post. Our support has little to do with 'democracy' I think it has a lot to do with CHRISTIANITY. It has nothing to do with Christianity. They're Jews, remember? Post WWII, that was still a dirty word. We support them because they are a stable force in the area. And certainly some of the support stems for the same reasons the Miami Cubans have kept the embargo up. 45% of the world's Jews live in the US. About the same number live in Israel. As for Hamas - the US doesn't have to recognize governments whose chief goal is the destruction of an ally. And lets not gloss over how they took control. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #38 May 28, 2009 well I disagree. It has a lot to do with Christianity. The book of revelations requires israel to exist and all the jews will have to convert or die.... I doubt the jews care about that right now, they are milking the USA for $118B/year. And the USA recognizes lots of no-so-friendly governments. China is trying to 'destroy' the Tibetans, and Taiwan. North Korea wants to destroy everybody, but we still 'recognize' their government. I could go on. As I said, there is more to this than just 'support for an ally'. 45% of the world's Jews probably have a lot of voting power. The Christians, at least the fringe, want to see Israel exist as well. Maybe the Jews in the USA should hold a giant bake-sale to raise money for their country instead of taking it out of my tax dollars. I would rather see the money spent on health care and education of our own, thank you very much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #39 May 28, 2009 Not to mention that Americans are largely Christians, and many of them EXTREME. TK..... you really think that many of the Christians in the US are "extreme"? As a Christian I would have to disagree..... I know a handful f what I call "stupid Christians" that are off of their rocker but "many"? I think it may be a bit far fetched to think that is why we have support Israel. That being said I do think our support of Israel was too much but I also don't believe they deserve no support from us. I do believe that that the other side really just wants the Jews dead and gone but I do not think it is the same from Israels side.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #40 May 28, 2009 Quotea true democracy - except that the entire system is based upon religion. If that were true, only jews would have the right to vote in Israel, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #41 May 28, 2009 Quotewell I disagree. It has a lot to do with Christianity. The book of revelations requires israel to exist and all the jews will have to convert or die.... I must not be following you. It sounds like you are saying that US foreign policy with regard to Israel is determined by some obscure passage in a (largely apocryphal) religious text, one that I'm guessing most Christians aren't even aware of it. Can you clarify what you really meant?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #42 May 28, 2009 So if you are born in Israel, is your nationality listed as Israeli or Jewish? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #43 May 28, 2009 Quote It sounds like you are saying that US foreign policy with regard to Israel is determined by some obscure passage in a (largely apocryphal) religious text, one that I'm guessing most Christians aren't even aware of it. Can you clarify what you really meant? I think it is VERY well understood that most Christians believe and in fact get rather excited by the idea that ALL so-called non-believers (not just Jews but also Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, and sometimes even the wrong 'type' of Christians) are going to spend Eternity in eternal torment in hell. Note that even the Christian Skydivers Association requires you to sign a statement saying that you believe this is a 'dying' world."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #44 May 28, 2009 QuoteQuote It sounds like you are saying that US foreign policy with regard to Israel is determined by some obscure passage in a (largely apocryphal) religious text, one that I'm guessing most Christians aren't even aware of it. Can you clarify what you really meant? I think it is VERY well understood that most Christians believe and in fact get rather excited by the idea that ALL so-called non-believers (not just Jews but also Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, and sometimes even the wrong 'type' of Christians) are going to spend Eternity in eternal torment in hell. . "Most Christians" would beg to differ with this statement. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #45 May 28, 2009 QuoteI think it is VERY well understood that most Christians believe and in fact get rather excited by the idea that ALL so-called non-believers (not just Jews but also Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, and sometimes even the wrong 'type' of Christians) are going to spend Eternity in eternal torment in hell. Really? I know plenty of folks who think of themselves as Christian. None of them have ever appeared excited about any notion of that sort. BTW, what does that have to do with my question about a supposedly biblical motivation for US policy on Israel?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #46 May 28, 2009 QuoteQuote It sounds like you are saying that US foreign policy with regard to Israel is determined by some obscure passage in a (largely apocryphal) religious text, one that I'm guessing most Christians aren't even aware of it. Can you clarify what you really meant? I think it is VERY well understood that most Christians believe and in fact get rather excited by the idea that ALL so-called non-believers (not just Jews but also Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, and sometimes even the wrong 'type' of Christians) are going to spend Eternity in eternal torment in hell. Note that even the Christian Skydivers Association requires you to sign a statement saying that you believe this is a 'dying' world. WHAT??? That statement is insane! Get "rather excited"? As a Christian with many Christian friends Im here to tell you that is BS and it is sad that is what you think!Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #47 May 28, 2009 Quote I doubt the jews care about that right now, they are milking the USA for $118B/year. Buddy, you need to do better fact checking on yourself. You're off by more than an order of magnitude here. If it were true, it would represent more than a quarter of our deficit in prior years. But reality is a far smaller number. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #48 May 28, 2009 QuoteBTW, what does that have to do with my question about a supposedly biblical motivation for US policy on Israel? Christians claim that Jesus is, in fact, the Jewish Messiah. Since Jesus didn't actually accomplish the things that the Jewish Messiah is supposed to accomplish, the Christians have to have a way of getting around this. They claim that Jesus will accomplish these things in a 'Second Coming' so that the original Jewish prophecies--as well as a lot of newer prophecies that the Christians throw in for good measure--can come true. Basically the evidence points to Jesus not being who he is claimed to be, so the Christians are waiting for the Second Coming when it is said that Jesus will produce the evidence in rather dramatic fashion. Because some of the prophecies--especially the rebuilding of the Temple--are specific to the land of Israel, Christians do in fact have a desire to see a stable government in that area of the world so that their prophecies can come true."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #49 May 28, 2009 Quote WHAT??? That statement is insane! Get "rather excited"? As a Christian with many Christian friends Im here to tell you that is BS and it is sad that is what you think! Can you explain the comment, then, on the Christian Skydivers Association webpage about this being a 'dying' world?"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #50 May 28, 2009 QuoteCan you explain the comment, then, on the Christian Skydivers Association webpage about this being a 'dying' world? You're saying that whoever put up a website called "Christian Skydivers Association" is somehow the final spokesmen for all Christian belief? Or is it just that he's the recognized spokesman for the majority of people who consider themselves "christian"?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
