Abortion Beliefs

[ianmdrennan 2]

So, in light of the Tilley murder it got me thinking. I'm curious as to peoples beliefs to the above.

I tried to make the poll have good options but I'm sure there are some choices that dont fit in the above, if so, please state them below.

Personally, I'm Pro-choice, but only within the first trimester (and if the mother is going to go that route - preferably at the end of the first month when they first find out they're pregnant). Even then I'd far rather see the parent give the child up for adoption than abort the fetus.

I find abortion after that aborrhent. That said, I find the murder of Tilley equally aborrent (but I dont want to turn this poll into that debate)

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[peregrinerose 0]

I used to be pro-life, with no exceptions, but that has definitely changed over the past few years. There are so many truly unwanted children in the world.... foster kids, neglected kids, abandoned kids, those kids that slip through the cracks, and many end up really hurting society by draining resources, eating up welfare money, etc. I'd much rather see the focus be on preventing the 'need' for abortion.... easy access to sterilization, birth control, education, foster care reform, more adoptions of older children to help break the cycle, etc.

Solve the root problem (unwanted pregnancy) and the symptom (abortion) goes away.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[shropshire 0]

I agree with you .... but recognise that I (as a man) have a reduced say in the matter - Her body, her discision.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I agree with you .... but recognise that I (as a man) have a reduced say in the matter - Her body, her discision.

True, which is why I support the first trimester choice. After that though I just can't find any justification for it.....it's not like it should be a surprise at that stage (IMO).

I feel that while the mother has the right to make the decision, it should be made in a timely manner, not many months into the pregnancy.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[ianmdrennan 2]

I see there are some 2nd and 3rd trimester votes - I'm really curious to hear from those people.

I'd like to know their thinking (genuinely).

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[shropshire 0]

There could be some exceptions... WHilst it's 'generally' true that the pregancny should not come as a total surprise after the 1st. It's not always possible to detect all types of birth defect .... now we're onto shakey ground (not for the first time).

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Caitlin89 0]

Many people don't recognize the fact that a significant portion of late-term abortions are performed because the mother's health is at risk. Pro-choice (third trimester) may seem extreme to many, but if there is a substantial risk to the mother, it's a completely different story IMO.

Personally, I would vote 'Pro-Choice (limited to first trimester UNLESS there is a significant health crisis with mother or fetus)'.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Many people don't recognize the fact that a significant portion of late-term abortions are performed because the mother's health is at risk. Pro-choice (third trimester) may seem extreme to many, but if there is a substantial risk to the mother, it's a completely different story IMO.

Personally, I would vote 'Pro-Choice (limited to first trimester UNLESS there is a significant health crisis with mother or fetus)'.

Very good point, I had not thought of that.

Thanks for the insight.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[kelpdiver 2]

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I see there are some 2nd and 3rd trimester votes - I'm really curious to hear from those people.

I'd like to know their thinking (genuinely).

Ian

Not everyone knows they're pregnant in the first. Viability comes around the beginning of the third.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Viability comes around the beginning of the third.

I'm not sure I agree with that. It was pretty obvious my wife was pregnant within the first trimester. CERTAINLY within the second trimester.

"Whoops I didn't know till the third trimester" seems a stretch to me - although I'd venture a guess that like most things in life, there are exceptions
Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[TomAiello 26]

I'm actually closer to "Abortion on demand," which wasn't one of your options.

Honestly, unless the baby is viable outside the womb, I think it's still got to be the mother's choice.

I have children. It's a huge, all consuming undertaking. I don't think that anyone who doesn't want to go through it should. In fact, I think that many people who are parents probably ought to have thought harder about it before the decided to do that.

At some point I think you probably ought to move to a "birth-then-adoption" scenario, but the truth is that labor and delivery is a huge ordeal in itself, and again, I'm extremely reluctant to force anyone to go through it against their will.

Add to that the fact that as a male, I'm never going to have to make this (deeply personal) decision for myself, and I'm just not comfortable imposing my views on anyone else who has to make that decision.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

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I'm not sure I agree with that. It was pretty obvious my wife was pregnant within the first trimester. CERTAINLY within the second trimester.

There's a lot of variability in that, though, based on age and body composition (among other things).

Younger women tend to show less, and obese women tend to hide the pregnancy better (if you weigh 220 pounds, adding a few more is harder to see than it would be if you weigh 120).

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[rehmwa 2]

I'm torn on the issue, but I continue to see extreme examples put forth instead of the core issue.


Pro-choice people talk examples in this way: "Extenuating circumstances justify abortion, therefore (?) it needs to be on-demand for any reason" I understand the argument, but not the conclusion.

I have a similar issue with Pro-lifers that would require life 'no matter what' - denial of scenarios for extenuating circumstances is not realistic.

The "on demand without a justification" crowd is just pushing an agenda without thought and it's impossible to respect that crowd.

abortion for medical reasons, or to abort a defective baby - I understand

abortion in cases of rape, etc - I understand

for convenience and birth control - hard to accept that, but if so, absolutely no reason to do it except right away

so I'm somewhere between Pro-Life considering special cases....and Pro--choice, but only the first tri....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DARK 0]

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I'm not sure I agree with that. It was pretty obvious my wife was pregnant within the first trimester. CERTAINLY within the second trimester.

weather or not it is obvious to you dosnt really matter imo

i personally know someone who said they didnt know they were pregnant until 5 months in maybe even 6 i cant remember exactly(overweight person who suffered from what was described to me as phantom periods)

now while that is an extreme case it is still the exception that disproves your rule of it being obvious after a month or so

my own personal view is that until the baby can survive outside of the womb then i believe it is ok to have an abortion. i do not know when this is but i trust in much smarter people to find that out

if someone asks me to vote for no abortion or for all abortion ill vote for all because i believe that having the choice is more important. but if im asked to vote on no abortion always ok to abort and abortion while the baby is not viable ill vote for the latter

[wmw999 2,447]

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Viability comes around the beginning of the third.

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I'm not sure I agree with that. It was pretty obvious my wife was pregnant within the first trimester. CERTAINLY within the second trimester.

I think there's a misreading -- viability, not visibilitiy. Viability most definitely is about the start of the third trimester.

I used to be entirely (i.e. "up to the time the head emerges from the birth canal") pro-choice. That was wrong. But I'm pretty solidly pro-choice through the end of the second trimester, with less and less sympathy the longer one goes.

Personally, I'd really, really like to see free birth control. That would cut down the incidence of abortion. Wouldn't eliminate it, but it would cut it down.

And as far as "how can you now know?" If you have irregular periods and are overweight, or if you exercise enough to suffer from occasional amenorrhea, then it's not that hard to understand not knowing for awhile. And once you've not figured it out for (say) 2 months, then all of a sudden by the time you really think about it, and make arrangements, talk to the father, etc. you're probably already pushing the second trimester.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

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Personally, I'd really, really like to see free birth control.

do you mean tax payer provided birth control?

or just the idea that eating leaves off of the lawn will do the job

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[TomAiello 26]

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Personally, I'd really, really like to see free birth control.

do you mean tax payer provided birth control?

I wonder if there is a road forward in having pro-life groups subsidize birth control?

I'm not pro-life, and I understand that some pro-life folks are against birth control too, but I wonder if you could get them to kick in funding for long-term birth control, to reduce the number of abortions?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[rehmwa 2]

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Personally, I'd really, really like to see free birth control.

do you mean tax payer provided birth control?

I wonder if there is a road forward in having pro-life groups subsidize birth control?

I'm not pro-life, and I understand that some pro-life folks are against birth control too, but I wonder if you could get them to kick in funding for long-term birth control, to reduce the number of abortions?

If it were voluntary support? I'm all for it. But no one here ever talks about voluntary.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,447]

Ya know, I just about would like to see taxpayer-paid birth control. Quite frankly, the payback would probably be worth it given the cost of births and welfare.

Obviously the options would be limited, and I'd very strongly be for the less effort-intensive (e.g. depo shots or IUD rather than the pill, which is so easily missed).

It'd be even better if it were mandated for stupid people, but I don't really think we can go there . Tom's idea of getting pro-life to pay isn't bad -- there are a decent number of pro-choice who would as well.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[TomAiello 26]

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Personally, I'd really, really like to see free birth control.

do you mean tax payer provided birth control?

I wonder if there is a road forward in having pro-life groups subsidize birth control?

I'm not pro-life, and I understand that some pro-life folks are against birth control too, but I wonder if you could get them to kick in funding for long-term birth control, to reduce the number of abortions?

If it were voluntary support? I'm all for it. But no one here ever talks about voluntary.

Well, some of us do. But we're definitely in the minority.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

Do you know if there are any non-profit organizations dedicated to giving out birth control?

I'm sure someone must have already thought of this.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[rehmwa 2]

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Ya know, I just about would like to see taxpayer-paid birth control. Quite frankly, the payback would probably be worth it given the cost of births and welfare..........strongly be for the less effort-intensive........mandated for stupid people, ........

This is actually one I could join you and get behind, but I can't take it when the word "free" comes out.


I'm not a fan of forcing one demographic to pay for it and not another (Tom's idea). And I'm a bigger fan of voluntary - it's charity, so make it a charity, not a tax

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[TomAiello 26]

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I'm not a fan of forcing one demographic to pay for it and not another (Tom's idea).

I'd assume that any organization giving out free contraception would be open to all comers. I don't think they'd make some people pay, and others not.

I was thinking of a voluntary, privately funded (i.e. charity) type effort, which would serve anyone who asked. It seems like you ought to be able to find some pro-life folks who'd want to contribute to something like that.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[wmw999 2,447]

That's a really good idea, and I'd be all in favor of donating to it. I wonder if Planned Parenthood would be able to provide the know-how of setting it up? I know that donating to Planned Parenthood would be anathema to many pro-lifers, but most of what they do is contraception.

The folks you don't get would be the ones who consider punishment the appropriate result of unprotected sex. Most of them probably consider themselves to be pro-life, but I have a feeling a better description might be anti-unmarried-sex.

An ounce of prevention is often worth a pound of cure.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[TomAiello 26]

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That's a really good idea, and I'd be all in favor of donating to it. I wonder if Planned Parenthood would be able to provide the know-how of setting it up? I know that donating to Planned Parenthood would be anathema to many pro-lifers, but most of what they do is contraception.

Planned Parenthood is the NRA of the abortion debate. Most of what they do is contraception and education (most of what the NRA does is gun safety courses). But the stigma they've had attached and the polarizing nature of the mere mention of their name means that it'd probably work better to have a new, un-stereotyped organization.

I think the best case would be (yes, I know it's a pipe dream) if two groups on opposite sides of the issue (picture Planned Parenthood and Operation Rescue) cooperated to set up (and supervise) a new organization that worked solely on pregnancy prevention.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com