Tunnel time for AFF/STP

[MagnoMan 0]

Hey guys newbie here, so I'm kind of stuck between choosing which course I want to take. I currently live in South Florida and luckily I have 2 really great DZs nearish to me. I was pretty set on taking the STP course at spaceland due to the fact that you have 15 jumps with one instructor and it helps with your learning curve. The only problem is that it's expensive! I was willing to save up, and pay it forward because I love the sport so much but I have recently been conflicted. I have since been getting some tunnel time in (25 mins) and getting some more in while I continue to save up. My question is should I go with the AFF course (skydive Sebastian) where I won't have as much instruction as the STP? The reason I ask is because per my tunnel instructors I'm doing great and they even told me I would definitely be able to pass AFF (he is also an AFF instructor). Should I do the AFF and save the money and take the slower route to my license? Or just stick with the stp and get my license in a week but pay more money upfront?

Thank you guys for your input,
Blue skies!!

[JohnMitchell 16]

What is STP?
25 minutes in the tunnel? I would personally go straight to AFF, the less expensive of the two. I still like having 2 instructors for the first 3 jumps. No matter what, it will take at least 25 jumps to earn the A license. If you're set on doing that in a week, it can be done, but allow time for bad weather, etc. Don't make doing it quickly your goal. Make doing it safely your goal.

I personally don't see why your progression would be faster in the STP program. If that is true, can anyone tell me why?

[peek 21]

With that much time in the tunnel, I would go right to AFF.

FYI, something to think about, although it may not apply directly to you:

http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Disciplines/Indoor_Skydiving/From_Tunnel_to_Sky_1276.html

[MagnoMan 0]

STP is the Skydiver Training Program that is Spaceland's version of the AFF program (you need 2 tandem prerequisite to do the course). The course consists of 16 jumps with one instructor and a graduation jump with an additional of 5 jumps in the bank, the first seven jumps are pretty parallel to AFF then the other 9 are basically geared towards your weaknesses and working on your dive sequences. I've heard nothing but good things about the program however, it's pretty expensive ($2400 for the course but it'll get you to the 25 jumps needed for your license). The course helps a lot more with the learning curve instead of just letting you off the leash after just 7 jumps (so I've heard). Just wanted to get some opinions on whether I should go with the more expensive route, after doing the math I would save $400 doing AFF (including gear rentals & the extra jumps needed, but not including coached jumps).

[JohnMitchell 16]

You'll need at least half a dozen coach jumps to go from AFF graduate to A license, in my estimation, to match the training in the STP. So figure the extra cost on that. (My home DZ only charges $20 more to add a coach onto your jump.)

Requiring 2 tandems first also costs $$. Have you done those yet or have you figured those into your cost estimates?

$2400 for 25 jumps, including gear, including an instructor for 16 jumps, is not bad. Running the numbers for my DZ I came up with $2625 to get that A license

[MagnoMan 0]

Great read thanks! There were some points in there I never thought about, and will definitely keep in mind when I go do my course!!

[MagnoMan 0]

I've actually done 2 tandems so far and have one tandem ticket bought (I failed my second tandem due to sensory overload forgot about altitude awareness) so I was planning on waiting til I have the STP money to do my last tandem then book my course. So if I do the AFF I will only need 15 jumps to go, I am very safety oriented which is why I was willing to save up for the more expensive and instructional course. I just lately feel like I am prepared to take the cheaper alternative and just focus on altitude awareness, tracking, and canopy, since I already have turns, forward and backward movement, stability, and speed control (moving up and down on the tunnel). What do you guys think? Also just wanted to state I am aware of taking advice online and will be taking all advice with a grain of salt and probably follow up my decision with my tunnel instructor and see what they say. (I'm doing my last 5 minutes to get up to 30 before doing the tandem and whichever course I choose to do) Thank you guys for helping out in the meantime!

[JohnMitchell 16]

I think either method will get you to where you want to be. Is the STP at the DZ where you made the tandems? Do you like the staff there? Staying at a place where you're familiar and comfortable has its advantages.

Lost altitude awareness? Yeah, you'll want to work on that.

[MagnoMan 0]

Haha yeah can't lose that again that's for sure!! Spaceland was a great DZ and I will be doing my 3rd tandem there too. I've heard great things about Sebastian also (where I would take the AFF course) quality of gear, staff, not to mention it's off the coast of Florida, and they have a bar which is a BIG plus so I'm sure either DZ would be a good home for me.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Both good DZs. Where do you live?

[MagnoMan 0]

Deerfield Beach, FL there's a 15 minute drive difference between the two spaceland being the closer one. It's great to live in such a hotspot for the sport, with two great DZs and a tunnel close by. Miami is close by too but I haven't heard anything really about them.

[SeanNolin 0]

I don't think you can go wrong with either of them..im a grad of skydive spaceland Houston and I can't say enough about them. But spaceland offers FREE coaching jumps for your first 100 skydives , no matter where you trained. Go the cheaper route and then go to spaceland for your next 75 jumps and get free coaching. Spaceland is a world class place full of great people.

[MagnoMan 0]

That sounds great! Do I have to have my license or can I go straight after my AFF course?

[SeanNolin 0]

You'd have to have your license first for the free coaching. It's worth it though . A lot of fun 2,3, and 4ways or simply working on improving certain things. All with a free uspa coach and free video.

[tred 0]

go where ever you think you will be jumping the most once licensed. you are gonna end up a licensed skydiver either way with a difference of a few hundred dollars at most. you will be better off making connections at what will be your home DZ later on.

[dgrabowski 4]

The Skydiver Training Program at Spaceland (all of them) is, in my opinion, by far the most well put-together AFF training program I've ever seen. My experience with STP is at the Mothership (Houston) as an AFF-I candidate; the same program is used at the other three Spaceland dropzones (Clewiston, Atlanta, Dallas).

I base my opinions on four observations:

1. When I got my AFF rating in 2012, I chose to do it at Spaceland Houston, because I had already seen how well the program was put together and I wanted to get my AFF-I training based on that program. I knew it would make me a better instructor. Just take a look at the student manual that they hand out - it is ridiculously well done, with great photos and spot-on to-the-point written info.

2. Because the program is so well put together, the instructors have a clear template to follow. Combined with excellent instructors, this produces a better end result.

3. Many dropzones have student gear that is "one size fits none", and is old, beat-up, and doesn't hold together well (i.e., that "one rig that always has the floppy main flap"). Conversely, Spaceland's student gear is top-notch, new(ish), and very well maintained.

4. The end result is that the freshly-minted AFF grads who I see at Spaceland Houston really know their stuff and are ready and eager to learn more; they're solid in freefall, and even more importantly, they're solid under canopy.

BONUS: Spaceland's "Mentor Program", which I believe is also at every location. New grads with less than 100 jumps get to jump with a coach (a "mentor") for NO EXTRA COST - just pay for your slot (and rental gear if you don't have your own). I've watched newbies come up through STP, through their mentor jumps, and now they are mentors themselves.

STP in a week is fantastic; saw a bunch of students doing exactly that during the long holiday weekend. One of the often-overlooked factors to student success is currency; making more than one jump per day and jumping for multiple days in a row eliminates the necessity to "re-learn" forgotten skills as it just continues to reinforce them.

I don't know what the end-of-the-line price is for STP, but my gut tells me that considering what the student gets out of it, it's probably worth a lot more than what you pay for it.

[MagnoMan 0]

Thanks for the info! I have heard that STP is a really great program, I just wish it wasn't so expensive! I can't wait to be in the skies and working towards my license, so I figure I'll probably go to Sebastian for the course, being that I have the funds to do that relatively soon. Being that I sort of made my own training with half an hour tunnel time, and 3 tandems so far, I feel that I can still get a lot out of the AFF program. Is this ignorant to think or is my thought process more or less accurate? My tunnel instructors say that I'm flying great, so I feel I can take the more expedited route, and just slowly work towards my 25 jumps after AFF. Maybe even talk to the instructors and they can change up the progression/course depending on how well I do. Is this something that is doable or is it a strict curriculum that they follow?

[dgrabowski 4]

I can't comment on the AFF program at Sebastian, as I've never seen it; that said, Sebastian has a great reputation and I would expect that its student program would follow. I simply chimed in to this thread because I happen to be a big fan of Spaceland's STP.

Thirty minutes of tunnel isn't much, and how you perform in the safety of the tube may or not be relevant as to how you do in the air (with additional significant mental challenges as well as 25 pounds of gear in a restrictive harness). It doesn't matter how great you are in the tunnel if you are not altitude-aware, fail to follow instructions, or fail to deploy your own parachute on any AFF level; you'll have to repeat the level before you progress. We can get away with lots of things in the tunnel; there's no room for that in freefall.

Your AFF instructors are in the best position to gauge your progress and ability to move along; your 'feeling' is not, especially before you even start. At the start of AFF, your instructors will most likely not take your tunnel time into account, and as you move along, they'll allow you to progress at your own pace. It's certainly not unheard of to combine the goals of two higher levels into one jump, but it's extremely common for students to repeat levels because they didn't perform satisfactorily.

Whatever you do - stay safe, listen to your instructors, and jump as often as you can.

[MagnoMan 0]

Sounds good thanks for your input, I'm in no way saying that I believe that this sport is easy by no means. I know first hand how mentally challenging it is, and the amount of work, and discipline needed while progressing through the course. I don't want you to take what I say out of context which is why I'm asking these questions and why I'm taking this time to prepare before I even proceed to do these jumps. I just want to get some opinions of experienced jumpers on the route I'm thinking about taking, and whether it would be a better trade off to save the money I'd pay upfront, while still being safe, and getting good instruction. Thanks to everyone that is giving me advice and info!

[MagnoMan 0]

Decided to continue to be patient and save up for the STP "A" license in a week thank you all for being helpful!!

[jaguaRjaguaR 0]

I think what course you do depends on what you are most afraid of. I went to AFF recently with lots of tunnel time (talking 25+ hours). My transition to the sky went very smoothly as such. Freefall was easy, I knew how to do maneuvers and how to relax in the environment already, and I feel like it helped give me more attention to focus on the things that actually matter like piloting a parachute, learning altitude awareness, packing, EP's, all those necessary things you can't live without that you really can't learn anywhere but the DZ. If you're scared about not really learning how to fly your body, then go to a tunnel and learn there. If you're worried about the rest of skydiving, maybe a bit of extra coaching could be worth the extra cost. This is a sport to be taken seriously, but the information has logic and common sense behind it, and as long as you're not an idiot you'll be manage to survive and have the time of your life no matter what kind of course you do.

[chuckakers 425]

I am a former AFF/I and former DZO, and have worked with a lot of training programs over the years. Spaceland's STP program is - by far - the best program I have ever seen.

These days I am a load organizer at Spaceland Houston, and am consistently amazed at the abilities of the kids coming out of the program, most of them with no tunnel time. The Houston location graduates twice as many students to the A license than any other DZ in the country, and their graduates are best prepared newbies I have experienced anywhere.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX