dreamdancer 0 #1 June 23, 2009 sounds good... QuoteEven operating at just a fifth of their full capacity, a global network of 2.5 megawatt wind turbines sited away from urban centres would easily meet global electricity demands, a study suggests. The Government has set a target of meeting 15 per cent of all the UK's energy demands from renewables by 2020, which means between 35 per cent to 45 per cent of electricity will have to come from green sources. Most of this is expected to be generated by wind farms. For the new study, a team of international scientists led by Professor Michael McElroy at Harvard University in the US, divided the world into areas of around 3,300 square kilometres. They then identified regions that would be suitable for wind farms. The scientists worked out the potential for wind power electricity generation based on wind speed, air density, the spacing of turbines, and the size of turbine blades. The findings are published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers concluded: "The analysis suggests that a network of land-based 2.5 megawatt turbines operating at as little as 20 per cent of rated capacity, confined to non-forested, ice-free regions would be more than sufficient to account for total current and anticipated future global demand for electricity. "The potential for the contiguous US could amount to more than 16 times current consumption. Important additional sources of electricity could be obtained by deploying wind farms in near-shore shallow water environments." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/5603178/Wind-farms-could-supply-planets-power.htmlstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 June 23, 2009 As much "fun" as wind farms are, they aren't a perfect solution by any means. While they look "cool" is sci-fi movies, the reality is they're not really all that attractive. While the cost of operating them could potentially get quite low, the real estate costs could be quite high. Take the coast of California for example. I can't in my wildest imagination believe that even California would put up with having the view of the coast screwed up with wind towers. We have a great wind farm on the road that leads from Palm Springs to Los Angeles and it's in a consistently windy area as well. Great location. But the article's idea that we'd somehow give up the coast line? Preposterous.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #3 June 23, 2009 QuoteAs much "fun" as wind farms are, they aren't a perfect solution by any means. While they look "cool" is sci-fi movies, the reality is they're not really all that attractive. While the cost of operating them could potentially get quite low, the real estate costs could be quite high. Take the cost of California for example. I can't in my wildest imagination believe that even California would put up with having the view of the coast screwed up with wind towers. We have a great wind farm on the road that leads from Palm Springs to Los Angeles and it's in a consistently windy area as well. Great location. But the article's idea that we'd somehow give up the coast line? Preposterous. They're built about 20 miles off shore, so the change to the view from the California coast would be negligible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #4 June 23, 2009 Wind Farms suckThey are noisy, ugly and kill birds - fuck um (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #5 June 23, 2009 QuoteWind Farms suck So does having our balls squeezed by Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #6 June 23, 2009 QuoteQuoteWind Farms suck So does having our balls squeezed by Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela. Live closer to where you work and purchase the things you need. Support nuclear energy for electricity."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #7 June 23, 2009 QuoteQuoteAs much "fun" as wind farms are, they aren't a perfect solution by any means. While they look "cool" is sci-fi movies, the reality is they're not really all that attractive. While the cost of operating them could potentially get quite low, the real estate costs could be quite high. Take the cost of California for example. I can't in my wildest imagination believe that even California would put up with having the view of the coast screwed up with wind towers. We have a great wind farm on the road that leads from Palm Springs to Los Angeles and it's in a consistently windy area as well. Great location. But the article's idea that we'd somehow give up the coast line? Preposterous. They're built about 20 miles off shore, so the change to the view from the California coast would be negligible. We have county suporvisers here, already banning them in some counties. And we are talking on farm land here. Also, new sites are getting harder to set because the potenial site land owners are talking to those who already have them. And when the current site owners are saying in hind site I would have never let them on my land, new sites are hard to come by. But, like billvon, government can force landowners to allow the things on their land, much like billvon gets free use of the utitity company's poles and wires."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #8 June 23, 2009 QuoteQuoteWind Farms suck So does having our balls squeezed by Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela. Some folks pay good monet for that .... Ask Bana..... But I digress. That's true but our little island is being blighted by these damned things - you may have loads of empty spaces so that peoples lives aren't messed up by some corporations idea of that is good for us (whilst they live well outside of earshot of them) but we don't. Also, how efficient are they (really)? How much do they REALLY cost (materials, shipping, energy etc.... etc...) What is the TOTAL Cost of Ownership of these damned monsters? How long does it honestly take for them to pay back this TCO? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #9 June 23, 2009 -kill birds... Not as many as the envirowackos would like you to believe. According to the study below, the average bird kill is two per turbine per year. Sounds like a fair trade for oil independence and reduced air pollutants! http://www.offthekuff.com/mt/archives/010385.html as far as being noisy and ugly, have you ever seen a coal fired power plant?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #10 June 23, 2009 Then your nation (ours, too) needs to have a policy debate: What sacrifices are you willing to make to stop being held hostage by ball-squeezers half a world away from your shores? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #11 June 23, 2009 Quote Wind Farms suck You just need to learn to view them as "jumpable object farms." That makes it all much better.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #12 June 23, 2009 I believe that they are having that debate... It's profile changes from time to time but energy in general is pretty high on the agenda. ...... of course 'they' seldom ask for 'our' inputLot's of people try to resist Wind Farms being built in their neigbourhood ... mostly with no sucess at all. Big money corporations 'tend' to drive policy. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #13 June 23, 2009 QuoteWe have county suporvisers here, already banning them in some counties. And we are talking on farm land here. It seems to me this is a perfect case of "one size does not fit all." Wind farms are great, in some places. Southern Idaho and Northern Nevada, for example, have huge chunks of desert, with high winds. No one lives there, and they are great places for wind farms. Sticking them in the middle of populated land really doesn't make sense in very many places. When the government intervenes to try to "build wind power" we end up with wind farms where people don't want them, rather than where they make sense. As a side note, did anyone else read the article about building wind farms on tethered balloons in the jet stream? Interesting stuff.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #14 June 23, 2009 Quote I believe that they are having that debate... It's profile changes from time to time but energy in general is pretty high on the agenda. ...... of course 'they' seldom ask for 'our' inputLot's of people try to resist Wind Farms being built in their neigbourhood ... mostly with no sucess at all. Big money corporations 'tend' to drive policy. I would wager that most people resist coal plants and nuclear plants being built in their neighborhood as well. I'd be curious to see a poll on which of the three people would be the least happy to see in their neighborhood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #15 June 23, 2009 QuoteQuoteWe have county suporvisers here, already banning them in some counties. And we are talking on farm land here. It seems to me this is a perfect case of "one size does not fit all." Wind farms are great, in some places. Southern Idaho and Northern Nevada, for example, have huge chunks of desert, with high winds. No one lives there, and they are great places for wind farms. Sticking them in the middle of populated land really doesn't make sense in very many places. When the government intervenes to try to "build wind power" we end up with wind farms where people don't want them, rather than where they make sense. As a side note, did anyone else read the article about building wind farms on tethered balloons in the jet stream? Interesting stuff. Where they make sense is up for argument. Sure, building them in the middle of nowhere makes sense aesthetically. But then you have to consider that you're going to have to build transmission lines to get the power from the isolated wind farm to the end users. You're also going to have to build more turbines, because more the electricity will be lost covering the distance between the turbines and the end user. What makes sense really all depends on what's important to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #16 June 23, 2009 QuoteWhere they make sense is up for argument. Absolutely. That debate ought to be had amongst the people living there, though. Not amongst a bunch of people thousands of miles away who decide for them.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #17 June 23, 2009 QuoteAs a side note, did anyone else read the article about building wind farms on tethered balloons in the jet stream? Interesting stuff. i'd read about high altitude kites that continuously looped and generated electricity.stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #18 June 23, 2009 I would also add that wind is not the solution for every place, as others have said. Those who plan renewable energy projects have long recognized this, but those who oppose renewable energy (usually the NIMBY crowd) like to quote it out of context and claim that the projects are not viable. OK, maybe wind is not the best plan in the UK. Is there Anything going on over there regarding tidal energy? Spain recently had some success with this technology. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #19 June 23, 2009 QuoteWhere they make sense is up for argument. Sure, building them in the middle of nowhere makes sense aesthetically. But then you have to consider that you're going to have to build transmission lines to get the power from the isolated wind farm to the end users. You're also going to have to build more turbines, because more the electricity will be lost covering the distance between the turbines and the end user. What makes sense really all depends on what's important to you. it looks like a continental/global dc transmission network will be able to connect up the remote renewable sources.stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #20 June 23, 2009 QuoteI would also add that wind is not the solution for every place, as others have said. Those who plan renewable energy projects have long recognized this, but those who oppose renewable energy (usually the NIMBY crowd) like to quote it out of context and claim that the projects are not viable. OK, maybe wind is not the best plan in the UK. Is there Anything going on over there regarding tidal energy? Spain recently had some success with this technology. there's a plan to build a tidal barrage across the bristol channel (i think the second biggest in the world) that will possibly generate about 5% of the uk's energy.stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #21 June 23, 2009 >much like billvon gets free use of the utitity company's poles and wires. How do you figure? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #22 June 23, 2009 QuoteWind Farms suck They are noisy, ugly and kill birds - fuck um For FUCKS sake! You can't win with the enviro's! No coal! Dirty. Wind Farm, noisy and kills birds. Solar field! NIMBY! Nuke? To risky. Dam? Harms the waterlife. OK so how do you want us to generate power?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #23 June 23, 2009 Hot air ... there's plenty in here (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #24 June 23, 2009 Quote>much like billvon gets free use of the utitity company's poles and wires. How do you figure? I thought you told me that you get to sell your exess juice at retail to the power comany. Did I misunderstand you? If I have it right then the power company sells the juice you sold them at the same price. So, they get nothing for the electricity and you get to put it out on their grid for free. Saying it another way, You are selling at retail (and retail prices, which contain the mark ups, generate the margin needed to build and maintain the grid) and they get nothing for it and you use it for free."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #25 June 23, 2009 QuoteHot air ... there's plenty in here Yes, there most certainly is......"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
