7/7 message for Christian Skydivers

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Note, the OP was for Christian Skydivers. Others chose to become involved by making comments.

Forum's for everyone, friend. Start your own if that bugs you.

[JackC 0]

Quote

um........ that's why its called "faith".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith

I really wouldn't consider faith to be a good thing. If you're prepared to believe one far-fetched story about impossible beings with dubious moral values based on circular reasoning, having to explain away the logical incoherencies by invoking "faith" because there is no supporting evidence whatsoever, what else are you likely to believe? It is very reminiscent of a particular mindset known as gullibility, a mindset which can be used to make people say and do all manner of crazy and repugnant things. That is a condition that I think should be eliminated, not encouraged.

[quade 4]

Quote

Genesis 1:1
[ The History of Creation ] In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Sin is first mentioned, I believe, in Genesis 4:7 as stated above.

Authorship attributed to Moses...

You might wanna check that one too.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ChristSkyd 0]

Quote

Quote

Note, the OP was for Christian Skydivers. Others chose to become involved by making comments.

Forum's for everyone, friend. Start your own if that bugs you.

No it does not bug me. That is what I was trying to explain the other gentleman.

[ChristSkyd 0]

Quote

The concept of sin only exists in Judeo-Christian belief.

Are you sure? It does exist in some pagan religions. Even Karma is based on good actions, and "bad actions", i.e. sins.

Quote

Sin is not a question of good or bad. Sin is anything that keeps us separated from God. Jesus Christ is the bridge between sinful man and holy God.

Quote

Dr. William Wilson, professor emeritus, Duke University Department of Psychiatry, once said that person will not accept Jesus until they have experienced deep emotional trauma. The debilitating trauma may last only a few seconds but it must be present.

So, saying it another way, anybody with good common sense will not accept Jesus if not being under extreme stress, when the person's ability to behave rationally is greatly diminished. Correct?

Or, extreme anger, anxiety, depression, guilt. Anything that puts you into the realization that you are lost and their is no way out. In the chemical dependency field we call reaching the bottom.

Quote

IMO, everyone gets one chance at salvation, many are fortunate enough to get more than one.

What about the people who never heard of Jesus, and therefore will not accept him as his Lord and Saviour? Is it their fault that your Jesus doesn't do daily broadcasts so everyone knows about him?

Quote

God judges the heart of the individual. The Wycliff Bible Translators and their tech branch JAARS are dedicated to taking the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ to all people groups in the world.

• Quote

[tkhayes 348]

http://www.ffrf.org

It is about the only legit organization I have found in the USA so far that has any clout, or at least is trying hard.

$40/year, good newsletter every month, actively trying to keep religion out of 'our' normal lives, our schools, our government.

All sounds good to me.

[Rstanley0312 1]

Quote

Quote

Seminary Grad here....... def. not 1st century

***

Genesis 1:1
[ The History of Creation ] In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Sin is first mentioned, I believe, in Genesis 4:7 as stated above.

Authorship attributed to Moses, born around 1200 B.C. concerning events approximately 4000 B.C. I did not mean 00-99 A.D. I apologize for the confusion.

Roger that

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Rstanley0312 1]

Quote

http://www.ffrf.org

It is about the only legit organization I have found in the USA so far that has any clout, or at least is trying hard.

$40/year, good newsletter every month, actively trying to keep religion out of 'our' normal lives, our schools, our government.

All sounds good to me.

There he is..... I was wondering when you would get back in TK.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Rstanley0312 1]

Quote

Quote

um........ that's why its called "faith".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith

I really wouldn't consider faith to be a good thing. If you're prepared to believe one far-fetched story about impossible beings with dubious moral values based on circular reasoning, having to explain away the logical incoherencies by invoking "faith" because there is no supporting evidence whatsoever, what else are you likely to believe? It is very reminiscent of a particular mindset known as gullibility, a mindset which can be used to make people say and do all manner of crazy and repugnant things. That is a condition that I think should be eliminated, not encouraged.

You may have that opinion and I respect it but I do feel there is factual grounds to my faith but in the end it still comes down to a belief in what I have experienced in my life so that is far from "groundless" and there have been several studies done on the fullness of life and illness that point to faith having a huge positive impact. I thinhk it is crazy for you to think that everything just happened on its own in regards to the earth and life. You seem to negate even the possibility of a creator so is that narrow minded? Again, I have no problem with your beliefs but I am not a nutter, I do NOT force my views on others, I am educated, and a productive member of society so the only issue I have is when people attack the Christian faith and come to the conclusion that faith is a bad thing because many men have done horrible things in the name of their faith but the truth is many men have done horrible things in the name of other issues and unfortunatly as human beings that will always happen. I try to live my life through my actions above all else because I feel that is what God wants of me. If you want to discuss I will but if you don't bring it up I will not really talk about it. I strongly disagree with you about faith though... I think it is an amazing thing! Oh, and the Bible is not far-fetched to me and what is "dubious" about the morals of the Bible? Also it is not based on circular reasoning....... what you deem as logic may not be so. Just because you cannot see it or experience it does not mean it doesn't exist. It would not be very logical to believe that.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[lurch 0]

Thanks, man. Just doing what I can to promote mental hygiene...
I just remembered a bumper sticker that sums it up nicely in a lot less words than I just used:

People who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[rickjump1 0]

Quote

http://www.ffrf.org

It is about the only legit organization I have found in the USA so far that has any clout, or at least is trying hard.

$40/year, good newsletter every month, actively trying to keep religion out of 'our' normal lives, our schools, our government.

All sounds good to me.

You sure you don't send them thirty pieces of silver?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

WTF is a "sin barrier?"

Sin barrier

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[lurch 0]

I've been expecting that.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

It is about the only legit organization I have found in the USA so far that has any clout, or at least is trying hard.

I wonder if there is something wrong with American Atheists?
(but I'm a member of both organizations anyway).

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

You sure you don't send them thirty pieces of silver?

Why? You could have my Jesus for free. Just take it.
I'll even give you $666 if you prove you took it from me.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Sin is not a question of good or bad. Sin is anything that keeps us separated from God. Jesus Christ is the bridge between sinful man and holy God.

Then I believe you should say "the Judo-Christian concept of sin only exists in Judo-Christian belief" instead, as basically you're making the concept of sin based on your religion.

Quote

Or, extreme anger, anxiety, depression, guilt. Anything that puts you into the realization that you are lost and their is no way out. In the chemical dependency field we call reaching the bottom.

So a smart person in mentally stable condition will not accept Jesus, but once being unstable, they will. Well, not so much for Jesus then.

Quote

God judges the heart of the individual. The Wycliff Bible Translators and their tech branch JAARS are dedicated to taking the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ to all people groups in the world.

I'm mostly talking about past times, when JAARS and others didn't really exist. See, you have a dilemma here. If the God judges the heart of the individual, why would anyone need Christianity and Jesus at all? But if following Jesus is a hard requirement from God, then why was it so cruel to push millions of people into hell just because they never heard of Jesus?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

God judges the heart of the individual. The Wycliff Bible Translators and their tech branch JAARS are dedicated to taking the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ to all people groups in the world.

I'm mostly talking about past times, when JAARS and others didn't really exist. See, you have a dilemma here. If the God judges the heart of the individual, why would anyone need Christianity and Jesus at all? But if following Jesus is a hard requirement from God, then why was it so cruel to push millions of people into hell just because they never heard of Jesus?

[tkhayes 348]

the resurrection was most likely a grave robbery, or followers that took his body to hide it for fear of desecration.

the 'bodily resurrection' of Jesus Christ, while accepted as a known fact within the Christian community, is far from ANY fact when exposed to any level of scrutiny by someone with a grain of common sense.

and thus it all falls on its face......

but of course, you would disagree......

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Who am I to question God?

A sentient being with the capacity to do so.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Who am I to question God?

Why would you? Maybe your case is different, but in my case nothing I know about Jesus and Christianity came from God. Everything came from some people, and unless you consider all of them outstandingly much smarter than you, it is only reasonable to question them.

If you see, I do not question God either. I question people who pretend they know the God will, and how the God will act (or not act). Hopefully you too aren't accepting as ultimate truth everything someone tells you.

Quote

Before Jesus was crucified to pay the atoning price for the sins of all mankind and then was resurrected and then commissioned Paul to carry the message to the Gentiles, before all that, only God's chosen people had access to him. All others were the ungodly.

What about after the Jesus was crucified, but before it became mass knowledge? You know, there were no Internet, TV, or even books, and one was not able to get from Rome to America in 24 hours, so spreading the word was quite long and painful process. Why should those who never had a chance to learn about Jesus die in hell?

Quote

That means the door to eternal life is open to all who ask for it.

Did you personally see this door? Could you prove there is a door, or even there is eternal life?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[dmkellett 0]

This looks pretty good.
http://ffrf.org/action/2009/fullerupdate.php

I know that the USA is very polarised, not just bible bashing everywhere even though you aint getting into political office unless you submit to jesus....

I have alot of respect for President Obama, I know he is a member of a church but do wonder if he had to attend in order to get into office. I would think he does not place as much importance on "scripture" when making policy decisions ( like the last guy..)

Maybe even one of those silent atheists??

I cant wait for someone to get voted in to US presidential office and then " come out ...... as a non believer"

That would be great.

Now back to the circular logic arguments. They are funny. If God judges the heart, then I know I'm OK because I care about others, live life with high morals ( NOT CHRISTIAN MORALS ) and spend my days helping people to see.

So by the supposed logic quoted here, I am fine.

But if someone from say, Nepal can get in for free and never having heard of Jesus, then why should I bother going to bow and scrape every Sunday? The logic makes no sense whatsoever. But then religion is not about logic, its about DOGMA and CONTROL.

D

[tkhayes 348]

you can't get voted in the White House without being a believer. If you 'came out' after the fact, then you would be impeached as a liar.

But we did elect a black man, and that would not have been possible 50 years ago.

so you never know.

I just want all the Christians to fuck off and stay the hell away from me, keep that crap out of my schools, my government. The older I get, the less tolerant I get of what religion brings to the world - child molestation, thievery, fear, persecution, war,

all the things that we would expect from 'regular folk'

oh yes, I forgot, they are all actually 'regular folk', no better than any of us.

If they just directed all their 'good stuff' to solving the world's problems, think of how far ahead we could be.

[maadmax 0]

Would you agree that your message sounds absolutely groundless for non-Christians, and therefore makes no sense for non-Christian public?

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Yes. but one can hope that someday they would finally see and enjoy the blessings of God.

That's fine. I too hope that someday you finally understand there is really no God, and it was invented by the people for their own benefit.

Quote

Disagree, I always enjoy hearing things pertaining to God no matter how many times I have heard them before.

I'm not talking about enjoyment, I'm talking about redundancy of those messages. There might be Christians whose beliefs are so weak that they need to be constantly reminded what they believe upon; so far I have never seen atheist trying to remind each others that there is no God.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

so far I have never seen atheist trying to remind each others that there is no God.

Just how long have you been in Speakers Corner, then???

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------