jammindave 0 #26 July 14, 2009 i agree that the $'s do not always go where there supposed to go, what a surprise! just look within your own county, state, etc. yes, i wish we could hold them all accountable, it's frustrating. the rich need to help the poor, but enter the politics of it all, i guess i don't have the answer. once again, speaking of countries for the most part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #27 July 14, 2009 Quotei agree that the $'s do not always go where there supposed to go... The closer to home they stay, the less likely they are to go astray. Charitable giving done on a person-to-person basis within a community is far more cost efficient than wealth redistribution done on a national (or in this case international) level. Quotethe rich need to help the poor... Aside from the obvious problems sorting out just who is "rich" and who "poor" and just what they ought to be doing to help, there is the greater question of whether it's moral to force people to be compassionate. Doesn't that kind of defeat the definition of compassion?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jammindave 0 #28 July 14, 2009 why do you keep dragging this down to the individual level, i thought this was more on the international level. sorting out the rich from the poor on a international level isn't that hard. yes, lets keep the $'s in the US, and let the rest of the world sink in their own quick-sand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #29 July 14, 2009 Quotewhy do you keep dragging this down to the individual level Because it is, in the end, an individual issue? The taxes I pay are pretty significant to me, as an individual. I'm sure they are to other individuals, too. Unless you want to form a group that will take care of my taxes for me? And thereby convert this into a group issue?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #30 July 14, 2009 That nobody gets much of anything for nothing, or is willing to give up much of anything for nothing. Also that most if not all individuals, and certainly all groups of people large enough to call what we term a nation take advantage of in the least, and abuse as a norm, whatever power they happen to accrue. The standards appear to be self interest and greed; survival remnants in my opinion. Tempered in direct relationships by proximity (as in people are generally nice to neighbors because not to might be bad for survival), but unfurled relentlessly by large groups. There are nice people, lots and lots of them I'm sure; but no group of people has ever come to power that did not unswervingly wield their dominance in blatant disregard for the rights of "other" groups of humans. We relentlessly slaughter each other over this speck of land or that, slavery was only recently abandoned in general but is still practiced in small pockets, women have no or severely reduced rights in many places, etc. We call it our civilized world but under the thin veil of civility it really is still a dog eat dog world. Quite beastly when you think about it. Maybe someday we'll evolve beyond our hoarding, selfish, greedy state of being. In the meantime, KEEP YOUR FUCKING PAWS OFF OF WHAT I'VE WORKED FOR! " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jammindave 0 #31 July 14, 2009 i apologize, i thought it was about "america and the world", not "america and the TOM" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #32 July 14, 2009 Quotei apologize, i thought it was about "america and the world", not "america and the TOM" Where do you think that aid money comes from, Dave? Quit being foolish.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jammindave 0 #33 July 14, 2009 foolish? such strong words, ouch! luckly, i've never paid any taxes in my life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #34 July 14, 2009 QuoteQuotewhy do you keep dragging this down to the individual level Because it is, in the end, an individual issue? The taxes I pay are pretty significant to me, as an individual. I'm sure they are to other individuals, too. Unless you want to form a group that will take care of my taxes for me? And thereby convert this into a group issue? Covered elsewhere, but worth expounding on. I think it is easy to relate to individuals. and hard to not like most people when you know them personally, or at least are aquainted. Even if you do not like them, chances are slim that you would drop bombs on them so that you could get cheap resources so every family could have 2 cars, 4 TV's, and a jacuzzi. But when people act as a group on another group they can not identify at all, being a glutton regardless of the impact on them is easy. What do we consume? Roughly 20 to 25% of the world's resources IIRC; and we are what? 5% of the population? Does anybody think the rest of the world provides us lots of cheap resources just because they think we are such swell folks? Those on the giving end, take solace in knowing things will change. They always do. 200 years of existence, with only 50 years of domination ain't shit in the long run of even just recorded history. Somebody else will get a turn, and guaranfuckingteed they will walk all over everybody that robs them of their beastly right to be a glutton." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #35 July 14, 2009 Quotefoolish? such strong words, ouch! luckly, i've never paid any taxes in my life. Well, that certainly explains why you're having difficulty with Tom's viewpoint.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jammindave 0 #36 July 14, 2009 actually, because i'm fairly intelligent and don't put words into others mouths, i do understand, i just can't do much about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jammindave 0 #37 July 14, 2009 oh,and the other thing, i worked my butt off and retired at 45. i payed more taxes than you can ever imagine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 July 14, 2009 Quoteoh,and the other thing, i worked my butt off and retired at 45. i payed more taxes than you can ever imagine. Make up your mind, dave... up thread, you said you never paid any taxes in your life... NOW you say you've paid more taxes than I can imagine - which one is it?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 219 #39 July 14, 2009 QuoteQuotein addition, are cost always justified? that's a tough one, i think not. Do you mean, are the benefits of the aid to me (a US taxpayer) worth the cost (in my tax dollars)? Or, do you mean, are the benefits of the aid (to the beneficiaries) worth the cost (to me, in my tax dollars)? In either case, I'm going to have to say no. I'm not getting my money's worth from this purchase. Quoteif not, then don't, nobody is making you but yourself? I am not given a choice (like getting married, or buying a car) about giving out this aid. If I don't pay my taxes, men with guns show up and take me to jail. Where's the choice? Easy. Declare yourself an illegal alien - or pretend that you are and work under the table for cash, and sluff off the taxes.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #40 July 14, 2009 Quote Quote oh,and the other thing, i worked my butt off and retired at 45. i payed more taxes than you can ever imagine. Make up your mind, dave... up thread, you said you never paid any taxes in your life... NOW you say you've paid more taxes than I can imagine - which one is it? Well, can you imagine paying no taxes?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #41 July 15, 2009 Quote Well, can you imagine paying no taxes? 40% of Americans pay no Federal Income taxes.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #42 July 15, 2009 Quote Quote Well, can you imagine paying no taxes? 40% of Americans pay no Federal Income taxes. That 40% actually get back 5.9% of all income taxes paid. 2008 numbers: 1st quintile (wealthiest 20%): 87.5% of all income tax 2nd quintile: 13.6% of all income tax (101.1% cumulative) 3rd quintile: 4.7% of all income tax (105.8% cumulative) 4th quintile: -2.7% (103.1% cumulative) 5th quintile: -3.2% (99.9% cumulative)Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #43 July 15, 2009 Quote 2008 numbers: 1st quintile (wealthiest 20%): 87.5% of all income tax 2nd quintile: 13.6% of all income tax (101.1% cumulative) 3rd quintile: 4.7% of all income tax (105.8% cumulative) 4th quintile: -2.7% (103.1% cumulative) 5th quintile: -3.2% (99.9% cumulative) probably should recalculate after including sales taxes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #44 July 15, 2009 QuoteQuote 2008 numbers: 1st quintile (wealthiest 20%): 87.5% of all income tax 2nd quintile: 13.6% of all income tax (101.1% cumulative) 3rd quintile: 4.7% of all income tax (105.8% cumulative) 4th quintile: -2.7% (103.1% cumulative) 5th quintile: -3.2% (99.9% cumulative) probably should recalculate after including sales taxes. The sub-discussion was about income tax, not sales tax.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jammindave 0 #45 July 15, 2009 hey, just because you bit on something so obvivously absurb ain't my problem. who do you know that doesn't pay taxes???, wake-up. talk about being foolish??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #46 July 15, 2009 Quote hey, just because you bit on so obvivous so obsurb ain't my problem. Sucks getting caught in a bald-faced lie, hmm? Quote who do you know that don't pay taxes???, wake-up Roughly 40% of the country. You were saying?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jammindave 0 #47 July 15, 2009 where's the lie and who do you know that doesn't pay taxes? do you 40% of the population. respond to what's written. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #48 July 15, 2009 Quotewhere's the lie and who do you know that doesn't pay taxes? do you 40% of the population. respond to what's written. Are you claiming the tax code is just a figment of his imagination? I know lots of people who don't make enough to pay income tax. What does that have to do with anything? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #49 July 15, 2009 Quote hey, just because you bit on something so obvivously absurb ain't my problem. who do you know that doesn't pay taxes???, wake-up. talk about being foolish??? I find it interesting that your response to the facts about who pays taxes is simple disbelief and denial. Numbers here. Source (cited at the bottom of the page): Congressional Budget Office. 40% of Americans pay no federal income tax. About 75% of taxes are paid by 20% of Americans. Given this, I am astounded that people want to raise taxes on the most heavily taxed, while leaving the untaxed (and in many cases negatively taxed via refundable credits) to continue free riding.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #50 July 15, 2009 Quote Given this, I am astounded that people want to raise taxes on the most heavily taxed, while leaving the untaxed (and in many cases negatively taxed via refundable credits) to continue free riding. +1We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
