Bolas 5 #1 July 16, 2009 If this is anywhere close to accurate... QuoteMore than 85% of the personal income tax is paid by a small, overtaxed band of Americans who in number are less than 25% of eligible voters. The total number of income-tax payers is less than 55% of eligible voters. These people also bear the economic burden of nearly all the income tax collected from corporations. http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?secid=1502&status=article&id=331339825303192&secure=1&show=1&rss=1 So why wouldn't someone who didn't have to pay for an expensive social program they benefitted from vote against it? Especially as self centered as most people seem to be these days. Do companies let non shareholders vote on company proposals and expenditures? No, because they are not financially impacted by the decisions. While our forefathers were somewhat divided on who should get the right to vote, I'm sure not even they envisioned a "freeloader majority" one day. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 July 16, 2009 QuoteFor when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do soMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #3 July 16, 2009 It is pretty close to accurate. The wealthy are not as numerous as the poor. The wealthy are easy to blame. to tax the rich is to be progressive. This is a fairly recent thing. It used to be that the federal government was limited. In fact, an income tax was unconstitutional until less than 100 years ago. Now, the income tax is constitutional. Further, the New Deal instituted programs that brought to fruition the programs of wealth redistribution. By the time the Great Society came along, poverty pimping was a profession. And it keeps on going. As Lemmy Kilmeister sang, "come on baby. Eat the rich. Take a bite out of the son of a bitch." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #4 July 16, 2009 QuoteIf this is anywhere close to accurate... I'd suggest votes proportional to taxes paid as more fair and in-line with corporate governance, with the US being the largest corporation in the world for practical purposes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #5 July 16, 2009 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism Quote Noun fascism (usually uncountable; plural fascisms) 1. A political regime, usually totalitarian, ideologically based on centralized government, government control of business, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights. Originally only applied (usually capitalized) to Benito Mussolini's Italy. 2. By vague analogy, any system of strong autocracy or oligarchy usually to the extent of bending and breaking the law, race-baiting and violence against largely unarmed populations. certainly the first definition. the second? well... not yet.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #6 July 16, 2009 I know - let's make eligibility to vote based upon personal ethics and morality. Of course, each person's eligibility would have to be determined somehow. So how to do that? Fairest way would be to ... put it to a vote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #7 July 16, 2009 Does anyone have comparative data for other nations?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #8 July 16, 2009 Fans of the welfare state must hate it when they want even more but the bottom line shows that so few are already taking care of so many. Or maybe they consider it evidence of their victory. Most likely they just ignore such information. Until those that can pay revolt, there seems to be no reason for the masses to change their behavior, (And has there ever been such a revolt?). But what to do? As a person closing in on retirement age, it's easy enough to see it thru for a few more years (and hope they don't get desparate enough to simply start lopping off big chunks of my nest egg). What about those just starting out? Maybe young adults are too caught up in the enthusiasm of where they hope they are going to think about the fact that about a quarter of their income for the rest of their lives will be spent providing for the professionally unemployed. A few close friends went off the grid a couple decades ago. I thought they were a bit kooky at the time. Could be they were wiser than most and a little ahead of the times. Interesting conundrum." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #9 July 16, 2009 I think we should just tax everyone equally. End all the temporary measures that have become peoples livelyhoods.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 July 16, 2009 QuoteI think we should just tax everyone equally. End all the temporary measures that have become peoples livelyhoods. not necessarily equal amounts, that's a pretty big hole to dig - even if it's fairest in the end for most perspectives but everyone should have to pay into "their" country (on a 'net' basis) even if it's a small/token amount for those that have little I have no issue with a progressive tax (though I do prefer a flat rate (which is 'progressive' in amount) or sales tax basis which is progressive in that those with more buy more), provided the lowest contribution is greater than zero. if there is no sense of ownership, why would anyone vote responsibly? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incendium 0 #11 July 16, 2009 I say we just have a flat tax across the board. gotta love the rich and corporate america.gotta love the lobbyists even more that created part of this mess. But to answer your questions I think if we were to actually look at what the constitution says, we will find that presently we are way off the mark of what our forefathers intended. my .02 v/r Paul "Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level and beat you!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #12 July 16, 2009 Quote As Lemmy Kilmeister sang, "come on baby. Eat the rich. Take a bite out of the son of a bitch." Or as NOFX put it; QuoteWhy must we stay where we don't belong Because there's never gonna be enough space So eat the meek, savor the taste It's always gonna be a delicacy So Lick your chops and eat the meek Why must we stay where we don't belong The factory mass producing fear, bottled, Capped, distributed near and far Sold for a reasonable price And the people, they love it, they feed it Brush with it, bathe with it, breathe it Inject it direct to the blood It seems to be replacing love Why must we stay where we don't belong Because there's always gonna be token truth Forgotten code discarded youth You know there's always gonna be pedigree One own the air one pay to breathe Why must we stay where we don't belong http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHaPxRXZoUg&feature=related"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #13 July 16, 2009 Can anyone point me at historical data regarding the percentage of voters who are taxpayers by year?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #14 July 16, 2009 Quote if there is no sense of ownership, why would anyone vote responsibly? I'd also be in favor of keeping the voting laws the same if we eliminated or greatly reduced federal income tax and went to some sort of federal sales/use tax system sort like most states do. Of course it may seem silly for the gov't to give $$$ with one hand to someone only to take it from their other... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 July 16, 2009 QuoteI say we just have a flat tax across the board. which flat? - flat rate, or flat amount flat rate - same income tax percentage on all flat amount - total spending/number of citizens (no exceptions) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #16 July 16, 2009 If you want a beer do you go to a bar or a temperance meeting?If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #17 July 16, 2009 Quoteflat rate - same income tax percentage on all flat amount - total spending/number of citizens (no exceptions) In economic terms, the second one is called a poll tax. It's actually the most efficient (meaning having the least distortion on human behavior) tax possible. Through weird (and inaccurate) teaching in our public schools, it's generally thought to be a racist method of taxation. I didn't understand that until it was explained in very small words to me by an economics professor during my third year of university study. For what it's worth, I'm in favor of the second, but given that there is no way it will ever be enacted in my life time, I'd settle for the first. Of course, the chance of that being enacted is also zero.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #18 July 16, 2009 QuoteQuoteflat rate - same income tax percentage on all flat amount - total spending/number of citizens (no exceptions) In economic terms, the second one is called a poll tax. It's actually the most efficient (meaning having the least distortion on human behavior) tax possible. Through weird (and inaccurate) teaching in our public schools, it's generally thought to be a racist method of taxation. I like the flat fee tax too, but prefer the term "capitation" since it carries less historical baggage to upset the unwashed masses. Obviously it's not a realistic possibility any where outside a newly incorporated town or a wealthy area looking to keep the riff-raff out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #19 July 16, 2009 > It's actually the most efficient (meaning having the least distortion >on human behavior) tax possible. However, it's the least efficient in terms of a) collecting money and b) paying for prisons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #20 July 16, 2009 QuoteCan anyone point me at historical data regarding the percentage of voters who are taxpayers by year? Everyone pays taxes - they buy goods and services right? Do you mean "Those that actually PAY taxes." "Or those that only file and get their money returned"I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incendium 0 #21 July 16, 2009 In my uneducated opinion a flat tax of 10% across the board for all....Sounds simple I know but heh why make governance hard right...... oh wait we did that already.....I love reading the tax codes v/r Paul "Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level and beat you!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #22 July 16, 2009 So, no taxable work... no vote right? That would imply no votes for Mums... um.. Womens votes were hard earned... I'd like to see you get away with that one. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #23 July 16, 2009 Primary problem with many fixes it that they do nothing to empower government. Why would any politician worth his salt ever vote to reduce government? Just like the poor voting to end or reduce a handout. What is the FairTax plan? http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment. The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities. The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system. The FairTax: * Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks * Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions * Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities * Allows American products to compete fairly * Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy * Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding * Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation * Abolishes the IRS We offer a library of information throughout this Web site about the features and benefits of the FairTax plan. Please explore!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #24 July 16, 2009 QuoteDo you mean "Those that actually PAY taxes." "Or those that only file and get their money returned" Percentage of voters who pay federal income tax.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #25 July 16, 2009 QuoteSo, no taxable work... no vote right? That would imply no votes for Mums... um.. Womens votes were hard earned... I'd like to see you get away with that one. Married couples filing jointly are both paying taxes. Regardless of which partner brings home the W-2, the income is legally earned and taxed jointly.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
