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Darius11 12
QuoteQuotePersonal responsibility.
Does that always effect getting sick?
No. But it sure effects how you deal with it. A responsible person plans for contingencies, carries insurance, and makes sure they have a financial cushion to deal with emergencies. Being prepared for an illness is part of being a responsible person.
True if you are capable of it great, I just don’t like the part where if you are not capable of it then fuck you die, or wait till you are so sick it is an emergency. That’s the part I don’t like.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
Darius11 12
QuotePlease make it straight - you can not think of a better thing to tax OTHERS for then saving a fellow citizens (like yours) life. You said you cannot afford it
I can afford to be taxed for it. Thats what you don;t get. I am more then happy to pay my share. Are you missing that again and again after its been pointed oput to you even by others. I mean god man read.
QuoteI don't know what you do for living, but I suggest you should not have any profit as well - i.e. you should work for food and housing (and healthcare). I'm ok with you working without profit. Are you?
Honestly if you can not see the difference between making money on selling a chair or a car to making money on someone’s cancer then we are not even on the same planet of morals.
I can see someone not getting a car if they don't have the money but last I checked getting sick was not an optional decision. If you don’t get that then I honestly don’t know what to tell you.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
You don't seem to realize that pursuing individual liberty and happiness in America actually carries a price in real life. It can be dangerous out there.
If you're good at what you do, even better if you're excellent, there are rewards in our country. If you're not, for what ever reason, there won't be as many rewards.
Our government needs to keep a minimal footprint in our life, not a maximum one. That is the purpose of our Constitution.
If you're good at what you do, even better if you're excellent, there are rewards in our country. If you're not, for what ever reason, there won't be as many rewards.
Our government needs to keep a minimal footprint in our life, not a maximum one. That is the purpose of our Constitution.
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Thats what you don;t get. I am more then happy to pay my share.
Who defines your share?
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TomAiello 26
QuoteYou mean each of us have to make our own roads, schools, and such?
Sure. Why not? We've got functional toll roads now, and lots of private schools which are often of higher quality than our public schools. Give back all the tax money that gets siphoned into the crappy public schools, and people would have the ability to pay for good education, instead of being forced into bad public schools.
Ever wonder why the Obama girls don't go to public school?
QuoteHow about the defense of the boarders?
We'd just make the boarders walk the plank.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
In all seriousness, we could defend our nation with about 5% of our current "defense" budget (which might more properly be called our "imperialism" budget).
-- Tom Aiello
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
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TomAiello 26
QuoteQuotePlease make it straight - you can not think of a better thing to tax OTHERS for then saving a fellow citizens (like yours) life. You said you cannot afford it
I can afford to be taxed for it.
I thought you said you couldn't afford health insurance?
If you can't afford to go out and buy it, how can you afford to pay for it in taxes? And then pay for some for other people, too?
George is correct. You can afford to let some other people be taxed for it. If you could afford to be taxed for the actual cost, you'd be buying insurance for yourself already.
-- Tom Aiello
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
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In all seriousness, we could defend our nation with about 5% of our current "defense" budget (which might more properly be called our "imperialism" budget).
So, no keeping international sea lanes free from pirates for the pursuit of commercial profit?
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TomAiello 26
QuoteQuote
In all seriousness, we could defend our nation with about 5% of our current "defense" budget (which might more properly be called our "imperialism" budget).
So, no keeping international sea lanes free from pirates for the pursuit of commercial profit?
No. There's a profit to be made, which means that the corporations making the profit ought to bear the full costs of their operation. Which means they are the ones who ought to pay for their own defense in the sea lanes.
I've got no problem with having the true cost (including defense of the cargo) be born by the people who actually want the goods. The transport companies ought to defend themselves (or hire someone to do it), and then pass the additional cost on to the people who hire them, who will pass it on to the people who buy their goods. That way, the people who actually benefit will pay for the protection, instead of all of us having to foot the bill, even if we don't want those particular goods.
-- Tom Aiello
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
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Darius11 12
QuoteYou don't seem to realize that pursuing individual liberty and happiness in America actually carries a price in real life. It can be dangerous out there.
If you're good at what you do, even better if you're excellent, there are rewards in our country. If you're not, for what ever reason, there won't be as many rewards.
Our government needs to keep a minimal footprint in our life, not a maximum one.
I agree with your idealism however I am learning that idealism does not necessary transfer well to the real world. I like the idea however I think there are exception to that rule and every rule.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
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No. There's a profit to be made, which means that the corporations making the profit ought to bear the full costs of their operation.
I think one of the understated issues in our financial system is that of corporate governance. IMO, that needs to be reworked, but not by Larry Summers.
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Darius11 12
QuoteQuote
Thats what you don;t get. I am more then happy to pay my share.
Who defines your share?
I think the same way all other contributions are determined.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
Quote
I agree with your idealism however I am learning that idealism does not necessary transfer well to the real world.
Exactly! Damn, you can get hurt out there. Anybody who has EVER been a success in America has been knocked down many times. But, they get back up, keep learning, and they don't stop. That's excellence in practice. And to date, my country has produced an incredible number of excellent people in practice. They shouldn't be penalized just because you're down on your luck, or you quit and decided to watch TV at ANY point in your day.
You don't get that do you?
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I can afford to be taxed for it. Thats what you don;t get. I am more then happy to pay my share.
Let me get it clear, as this phrase could be interpreted in two ways.
1. You are saying that you can afford to pay in taxes at least the amount necessary to buy your own healthcare, or even more. If this is the case, then why did you say before that you cannot afford it? If you can afford it, why do you need the government to buy it for you?
2. You are saying that you can afford to pay in taxes some amount which is NOT enough to cover even your own healthcare. You can call it "my share", "fair share" or whatever - it doesn't matter. If this is the case, then what you're saying is that you want others to pay for your healthcare, while you are not going to pay even your own share.
So could you please clear it up?
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Honestly if you can not see the difference between making money on selling a chair or a car to making money on someone’s cancer then we are not even on the same planet of morals.
You know, as soon as someone starts talking about morals, they put their own credibility at stake. So tell me, are you volunteering in cancer treatment centers, or this is yet another instance of "someone else should pay for that but not me"?
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I can see someone not getting a car if they don't have the money but last I checked getting sick was not an optional decision.
Same is getting food - even if you're not hungry right now, it's only matter of times when you need food again. So planning your spending to be able to buy food is not optional decision either. So are a lot of other things, including healthcare. A responsible person hopes for the best but is prepared for the worst, and an irresponsible person just hopes for the best.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
QuoteI am not saying that’s a bad thing all the time, all I am saying is it’s a bad thing when it comes to peoples health. Some things are worth more then money.
Money is simply the way I exchange my best efforts for the best efforts and best products of others. Why is that bad when it comes to health care?
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billvon 2,994
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>Why is that bad when it comes to health care?
Because not letting someone get that new flatscreen TV is a bit different than letting someone die in the street because they can't pay for medical care. Most people see a difference there.
Because not letting someone get that new flatscreen TV is a bit different than letting someone die in the street because they can't pay for medical care. Most people see a difference there.
TomAiello 26
QuoteBecause not letting someone get that new flatscreen TV is a bit different than letting someone die in the street because they can't pay for medical care. Most people see a difference there.
Are we talking about "dying in the street" though?
Is the flatscreen TV equivalent to a colonoscopy? A mammogram? An abortion? A boob job? What about a million dollar procedure that will extend the life of a 98 year old by another bed-ridden 3 months? We at a flat screen TV anywhere in there?
"Healthcare" covers a lot of ground. Critical care without which a normal, healthy person would die and with which they'd live another 50 years is one thing. But there is a lot of grey area here.
-- Tom Aiello
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
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rushmc 23
QuoteMembers of Congress haven't read the 1,018-page proposed healthcare-reform legislation, but then, apparently neither has President Obama.
The president recently confessed he is "not familiar" with key provisions of the legislation.
According to a Heritage Foundation post, Obama's embarrassing admission came during a conference call with left-leaning bloggers.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
billvon 2,994
>Is the flatscreen TV equivalent to a colonoscopy? A mammogram? An abortion?
>A boob job?
No, no, maybe, likely.
>What about a million dollar procedure that will extend the life of a 98 year old by
>another bed-ridden 3 months? We at a flat screen TV anywhere in there?
No.
>A boob job?
No, no, maybe, likely.
>What about a million dollar procedure that will extend the life of a 98 year old by
>another bed-ridden 3 months? We at a flat screen TV anywhere in there?
No.
jcd11235 0
Quote>No need - under Obama-care, there will be a set of criteria in place that
>will identify when you are to not receive any more medical help so you'll be
>disected and pieced out for the use of the elite (er.... the people).
Not a bad idea. A combination of that and advanced military prosthetics should allow ordinary people like Dick Cheney to survive well into the next century, where he will provide a valuable public service by crushing rebel forces,andprotecting the Emperor from Jedi traitors, and shooting people in the face.
You left out an important public service he can provide.
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Because not letting someone get that new flatscreen TV is a bit different than letting someone die in the street because they can't pay for medical care. Most people see a difference there.
No one is disputing that. That's why they already have Medicare, and several other programs in place. So, they're not working? Why?
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You left out an important public service he can provide.
You're an advocate of population control, also?
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