StreetScooby 5 #176 July 21, 2009 Quote I think the same way all other contributions are determined. Do you pay federal taxes?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #177 July 21, 2009 QuoteAnd I didn't ask or authorize anyone else to do so for me. I didn't realize that you were in jail/prison. If you're not imprisoned, then your voluntary presence in the US implies your tacit consent to government authority. Don't like the government? You can attempt to make changes within the rules of the system, or you can exercise your freedom to move to another country.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #178 July 21, 2009 Quote ...then your voluntary presence in the US implies your tacit consent to government authority. America is a republic, not a democracy. Government power comes COMPLETELY through CITIZENS who democratically elect politicians. Those politicians are SWORN to uphold the Constitution, whose entire purpose is to ensure a minimal federal government footprint in our lives. Quote Don't like the government? You can attempt to make changes within the rules of the system, or you can exercise your freedom to move to another country. So, do you agree with the rules of the system, as defined by my country's Constitution?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #179 July 21, 2009 Hmmm, think HC will stay strong if we dont pay the Dr's? http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99J23A02&show_article=1 Quote WASHINGTON (AP) - A senior administration official says billions of dollars to raise fees for doctors treating Medicare patients are not covered by President Barack Obama's pledge to pay for health care legislation. Budget Director Peter Orszag said Tuesday that's because the administration always assumed the money would be spent to prevent a cut of more than 20 percent in doctor fees. The Congressional Budget Office said last Friday the higher payments cost $245 billion over 10 years. It said including the money in the overall bill would result in deficits totaling $239 billion. On Friday, a few hours earlier, the president declared: "I've said that health-insurance reform cannot add to our deficit over the next decade. And I mean it." Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #180 July 21, 2009 QuoteOur government needs to keep a minimal footprint in our life, not a maximum one. That is the purpose of our Constitution. Actually, the purpose of the Constitution is "to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity." At least those are the reasons given in the Constitution.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #181 July 21, 2009 So, sounds like we can agree that you and I have different reads on that text.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #182 July 21, 2009 Quote Quote You left out an important public service he can provide. You're an advocate of population control, also? Not since I was informed that killing all the Republicans would not be politically correct. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #183 July 21, 2009 Quote Not since I was informed that killing all the Republicans would not be politically correct. Angelic I'm not Republican We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #184 July 21, 2009 QuoteQuote ...then your voluntary presence in the US implies your tacit consent to government authority. America is a republic, not a democracy. Government power comes COMPLETELY through CITIZENS who democratically elect politicians. Those politicians are SWORN to uphold the Constitution, whose entire purpose is to ensure a minimal federal government footprint in our lives. That has nothing to do with what I wrote about tacit consent, but if ranting makes you happy, so be it. The purpose of the Constitution is not to "ensure a minimal federal government footprint in our lives," however. QuoteQuote Don't like the government? You can attempt to make changes within the rules of the system, or you can exercise your freedom to move to another country. So, do you agree with the rules of the system, as defined by my country's Constitution? Generally, yes. 100%? No. Nonetheless, my voluntary presence implies my tacit consent to the rules of the system, just as yours does and just as Tom's does.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,994 #185 July 21, 2009 >Government power comes COMPLETELY through CITIZENS who >democratically elect politicians. Agreed. >Those politicians are SWORN to uphold the Constitution . . . Agreed. >whose entire purpose is to ensure a minimal federal government footprint in our lives. Afraid not. The Constitution calls out a whole lot of things the government can do (as well as a whole lot it can't) and allows a system for change (amendments.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #186 July 21, 2009 Quote whose entire purpose is to ensure a minimal federal government footprint in our lives. Ok, guys, I'll concede my phrasing on this, and find a better way to word my convictions here. We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #187 July 21, 2009 Quote tacit consent, http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tacit+consent Quote law, jurisprudence - the collection of rules imposed by authority; "civilization presupposes respect for the law"; "the great problem for jurisprudence to allow freedom while enforcing order" The problem I see with this definition of tacit consent is it does not explicitly account for the sworn duty of those in authority to uphold, let's say the Constitution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_Theory Quote Consent Theory is a term for the idea in the social sciences that individuals primarily make decisions as free agents entering into consensual relationships with other free agents, and that this becomes the basis for political governance. An early elaborator of this idea was John Locke, from whom the expression "all men are created equal" can be traced. All men are created equal, but they may not end up in equal places. Equal opportunity, not equal reward for different efforts. Quote One criticism is after the original administering of consent by the people, subsequent generations often only give tacit consent to the government. Without the power to refuse consent, true consent cannot be given. The federal government is far to large, IMO. It needs to be reduced in size, not expanded. Nor should the federal government be imposing unfunded mandates on states. BTW, one of these links led to this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will Once I'm done with the tidbits of my AGW thinking, I might pursue this link.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #188 July 21, 2009 Quote>Government power comes COMPLETELY through CITIZENS who >democratically elect politicians. Agreed. >Those politicians are SWORN to uphold the Constitution . . . Agreed. >whose entire purpose is to ensure a minimal federal government footprint in our lives. Afraid not. The Constitution calls out a whole lot of things the government can do (as well as a whole lot it can't) and allows a system for change (amendments.) It does allow for admentments. It does enumerate the specific powers that the fed gov has. saddly, that is not where we are today"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #189 July 21, 2009 Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_Theory … While we're using Wikipedia … Tacit Consent: "The theory of an implicit social contract holds that by remaining in the territory controlled by some government, people give consent to be governed."Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #190 July 22, 2009 QuoteQuotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_Theory … While we're using Wikipedia … Tacit Consent: "The theory of an implicit social contract holds that by remaining in the territory controlled by some government, people give consent to be governed." .... as limited and definded by our Constitution (which you like to selectively ignore......."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #191 July 22, 2009 Quote...service by crushing rebel forces, and protecting the Emperor from Jedi traitors, and shooting people in the face. You left out an important public service he can provide. Yeah. And don't forget ol' Teddy Kennedy. In addition to being your health care hero, he can pitch in and drown a few concubines.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #192 July 22, 2009 Quote>Why is that bad when it comes to health care? Because not letting someone get that new flatscreen TV is a bit different than letting someone die in the street because they can't pay for medical care. Most people see a difference there. Wow ok so I am not writing in chines, some people actually do get what I am trying to say.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #193 July 22, 2009 QuoteQuote I think the same way all other contributions are determined. Do you pay federal taxes? Yes i never knew that i had the option not too.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #194 July 22, 2009 QuoteI don't know what you do for living, but I suggest you should not have any profit as well - i.e. you should work for food and housing (and healthcare). I'm ok with you working without profit. Are you? I have already answered all your other questions you just don’t seem to want to get it. As for this one. Again I’ll try one more time. There are many things that I consider optional. Like having a cell phone, what type of car you drive if any, and many other products. So what happens when you can not afford a cell phone?……….. Simple you don’t get one What happens when you cant afford to get a TV?…………..Simple you don’t get one. Now by not getting these things your health is not effected. However if you don’t get health care you might die. Now if you can not see the difference between that you seriously have some issues. Health is not another product, or at least should not be. If you don’t have health you get sick, and you can die. It sad that I have to repeat this 80 fucking times for you to get it, but let me guess your next post is going to want to see my personal tax return? WOW that’s all I can say is WOW.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,994 #195 July 22, 2009 > It does enumerate the specific powers that the fed gov has. Correct! It does not "ensure a minimal government." It lists the powers the government has (which are considerable) and lists the powers the government does NOT have (which are also considerable.) However I agree that we have, in many cases, overstepped the intent of the Constitution, especially in the administrative branch of government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #196 July 22, 2009 QuoteWhat about a million dollar procedure that will extend the life of a 98 year old by another bed-ridden 3 months? We at a flat screen TV anywhere in there? "Healthcare" covers a lot of ground. Critical care without which a normal, healthy person would die and with which they'd live another 50 years is one thing. But there is a lot of grey area here. Very good point, and another politically incorrect topic that they are not daring to go near. Haven't looked at those numbers in a while, but the percentage of health care dollars spent at the end of life (not from accidents or injuries) is very high. Of course there is going to be more expense as you get older; but a hospital stay at the end of life is ridiculous - and personally - I find it highly undignified. Go home to die; in a place you love surrounded by people you love. As an aside; another business that is incredibly overpriced - funerals. Saw an article in the NYT about home funerals, and even home burials if you live in a rural area. That is definitely the way to go. When it's time, regardless of condition, I want them to haul me down to the stream, pour me a beer, call any friends I have not outlived, and so on and so forth. Dying in a hospital and being processed like a side of meat by a funeral home are both ridiculously expensive, totally unnecessary, and lacking in dignity. OK. Flame away." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #197 July 22, 2009 QuoteNow by not getting these things your health is not effected. However if you don’t get health care you might die. I think I may have figured out the disconnect. Health care and a healh care plan are not the same thing. You can use a plan to get health care, but you don't have to, it's simply a tool. There are already (too many in some people's minds, not enough in others) plenty of options to get health care that do not involve any plans at all.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #198 July 22, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhat about a million dollar procedure that will extend the life of a 98 year old by another bed-ridden 3 months? We at a flat screen TV anywhere in there? "Healthcare" covers a lot of ground. Critical care without which a normal, healthy person would die and with which they'd live another 50 years is one thing. But there is a lot of grey area here. Very good point, and another politically incorrect topic that they are not daring to go near. Haven't looked at those numbers in a while, but the percentage of health care dollars spent at the end of life (not from accidents or injuries) is very high. Of course there is going to be more expense as you get older; but a hospital stay at the end of life is ridiculous - and personally - I find it highly undignified. Go home to die; in a place you love surrounded by people you love. As an aside; another business that is incredibly overpriced - funerals. Saw an article in the NYT about home funerals, and even home burials if you live in a rural area. That is definitely the way to go. When it's time, regardless of condition, I want them to haul me down to the stream, pour me a beer, call any friends I have not outlived, and so on and so forth. Dying in a hospital and being processed like a side of meat by a funeral home are both ridiculously expensive, totally unnecessary, and lacking in dignity. OK. Flame away. +1Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #199 July 22, 2009 QuoteI am more then happy to pay my share. I can see someone not getting a car if they don't have the money but last I checked getting sick was not an optional decision. If you don’t get that then I honestly don’t know what to tell you. I think you hit on an even more fundamental issue. You are happy paying your share. Do you question how your own costs, along with the costs of others, became "your" share? When somebody foregoes preventive care to purchase material goodies, then comes down with an expensive illness and part of their bill becomes "your" share, you do not question that at all? I do. Granted there are those that do not have the ability. By my standards that is a very small percentage. My completely uninformed guess is that we have a society that is composed of about 25% freeloaders. They have the ability; they choose not to contribute, or have connived certain political factions into exempting them from contributing." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #200 July 22, 2009 Quote Go home to die; in a place you love surrounded by people you love. +1 Absolutely! And preferably, as pain free as possible. I have seen more than one person walk into a hospital here in Westchester, and _NOT_ be allowed to leave to go and die in their bed. Absolutely outrageous!We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
