TomAiello 26 #176 July 29, 2009 QuoteSure you could vote new people in under a "reform" mantra, but once there either they get corrupted or crushed or bulldozed by the corrupted. Yes. The problem is systemic. The system itself would have to be changed to alter the incentives. If the golden egg that everyone is lobbying for their share of is eliminated, that changes the incentives.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #177 July 29, 2009 QuoteEven you admitted that my (or who was it?) manager's practices were a complete disaster. The business I was working for at that time is not among those businesses receiving funds from the government. It was just another giant American business, with a giant beurocracy of managers and policies. I'm not sure that you're right. Virtually every large corporation gets benefits from the system. Even if they're not getting direct cash payments, they get things that smaller businesses don't (or can't take advantage of). The system is basically stacked to favor them, largely because it was created at the lobbying behest of similarly situated corporations. How many smaller governments (state or local) bend over backward to attract big corporations? Do they ever do the same things for small, local businesses?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chasteh 0 #178 July 29, 2009 >The system is basically stacked to favor them, largely because it was created at the lobbying behest of similarly situated corporations. Ok. Maybe you could show how Hyatt hotels and Atlantic aviation, FBOs has done this. There are examples of smaller resorts out there that rival Hyatt's resorts. I am sure, as a hotel, that they treat their employees like shit also. Hotels pride themselves on subordinating their employees to guests. That is how they work. - Oh yea, and the incentives I had available could hardly be comparable to the amount of work I had to do as I was "promoted." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeheelbillie 0 #179 July 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteDo you have a point or are you just whining? My point? Yeah, this country GIVES people the opportunity to become as wealthy as is just about imaginable. It does that in a LOT of ways that aren't entirely obvious. For instance, infrastructure. If you make widgets and want to sell them to anyone other than the people that work in your factory, you're going to be using government infrastructure to do it. Building that infrastructure costs money. Keeping the next generation of employees educated enough to continue to make widgets costs money. Keeping the world safe enough so that your shipment of widgets can get from point A to point B costs money. Sending the fire department to put out the fire at your factory costs money. In short, your widget factory doesn't exist without thousands upon thousands of other people supporting YOU getting rich. Stop being such a fucking tight wad, shut the fuck up and pay for it. You'll still be richer than the other 95% can ever hope to be. Quote I couldn’t help but chime in here...we/they DO pay for it! At every turn there is a tax, a fee, a permit, a license. Taxes are there to support that infrastructure…interesting that you call it the “government’s” as if to imply ownership. Don’t the people own it, since we are on the hook for it as the tax payer? Doesn’t government work for us? There sure seems to be a lot of guilt being tossed upon successful people that provide extraordinary amounts of tax base for governments countless failing programs. Your argument reeks of the class war mentality and Socialism undertones at best. It’s unfortunate that there are people out there that think (and I use that term loosely of course) like you do. The attack on the wealthy, capitalists and capitalism is foolish considering the good it has done for so many. The evidence is obvious and all around you. On the other hand there are countless failed programs, wasted billions, lies and deceit that prove growing your beloved government isn’t and never was the answer. You sir appear to prefer FORCE over CHOICE and freedom. I feel sorry for you…Gently pushing comfort zones since 1976... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #180 July 30, 2009 It's this reason that I believe that the majority of government spending should rest with the state & local governments - It's pretty easy to buy a few congressman without people finding out about it, It's alot harder to buy a few congressman in every state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #181 July 30, 2009 QuoteYou know, sort of like middle class conservatives do when they occasionally decide to not pay their income taxes or find loopholes with which to avoid paying. Wow, Geithner is a middle class conservative... thanks for the info!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rick 67 #182 July 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteHow many business's have you run? How many Fortune 500 companies have you worked for? They call it "human resources" for a reason. That's all employees are, a resource. You guys are right I came in here and reacted to 1 post taken out of context. One reason I started my own business is I was unhappy working for a large corporation.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #183 July 30, 2009 Quote i think you'll find tax evasion illegal in most countries Did I illude something different?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #184 July 30, 2009 Quote>Simply put - Tax deductions = Legal But tax evasion is not. >Illegal Immigrationj = ILLEGAL. How scary! Let's find a way to equate it to something far more serious than it really is! FEAR! MURDER! RUN! >It's really not that hard to understand. Correct. You seem to be eager to accuse me of supporting law-breaking. But wait, if he supports breaking laws, then he supports murder! And if he supports murder, he is a horrible person. No one wants to support horrible murderers! Oh, the horror! Wow - you sound like Gates. Illegal is illega, and yes, if you break the law - you break the law. Why is it that people think that a law EXIST JUST TO BE BROKEN? That way of thinking can only be described as "Crininal". FYI: I never equated illegal immigration to murder, doing that is just your way of trying over emphasize my argument to try negate the truth, and attempting to circumvent your arguments baseless foundation. But, lets play your silly little game, I do equate illegal immigration to breaking and entering. I can assume that you wouldn't want someone to do that to you? If I'm wrong about that, then why wouldn't you just be giving all your possessions away?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chasteh 0 #185 July 30, 2009 Never fear, A mnealtx will always be here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #186 July 30, 2009 QuoteNever fear, A mnealtx will always be here. And I for one think the world is a better place for it.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chasteh 0 #187 July 30, 2009 >FYI: I never equated illegal immigration to murder, doing that is just your way of trying over emphasize my argument No shit! I combined a hyperbole with a slippery slope, and painted it with your words. >to try negate the truth Just out of curiosity, what are you considering "the truth" here? That you dislike immigration? Is it the "truth" that illegal immigration is wrong? Please. >and attempting to circumvent your arguments baseless foundation. What is my argument, exactly? Do you even remember? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chasteh 0 #188 July 30, 2009 Sure sure. The world is a better place with pissed off redneck conservative if and only if it is better of with old hippie liberal douche. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #189 July 30, 2009 QuoteNever fear, A mnealtx will always be here. Sucks when your little jab goes wide of the mark, doesn't it?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #190 July 30, 2009 Quote >to try negate the truth >>>>>Just out of curiosity, what are you considering "the truth" here? That you dislike immigration? Yes, if done ILLEGALLY - Is it the "truth" that illegal immigration is wrong? Please. Illegal = Wrong I don't think i can break it down and make it any simpler for you to attempt understanding at this point. Unless you can show me how Illegal = Right.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #191 July 30, 2009 QuoteSure sure. The world is a better place with pissed off redneck conservative if and only if it is better of with old hippie liberal douche. I was actually fairly liberal when I graduated high school... then I grew up and got a job.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bolas 5 #192 July 30, 2009 Quote Is it the "truth" that illegal immigration is wrong? Did you really just post this? If one thinks a law is unfair, they should try and change it, not just ignore it. Should they choose to do so, they accept the risk of getting caught. Ex: Like most, I speed. Like most, I've gotten caught and had to pay fines. I accept that risk because I know in the eyes of the law, I'm wrong. Were that risk removed or lessened (smaller fine or warning), more may do it or go even faster, were that risk increased (larger fine, loss of license, jailtime, etc.) , less might do it to not as great an extent. Illegal immigrants also accept risks to come here. Remove or lessen the risk and we'd get more. Increase the risk and we'd probably get less.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #193 July 30, 2009 Quote Quote Is it the "truth" that illegal immigration is wrong? Did you really just post this? If one thinks a law is unfair, they should try and change it, not just ignore it. Should they choose to do so, they accept the risk of getting caught. Ex: Like most, I speed. Like most, I've gotten caught and had to pay fines. I accept that risk because I know in the eyes of the law, I'm wrong. Were that risk removed or lessened (smaller fine or warning), more may do it or go even faster, were that risk increased (larger fine, loss of license, jailtime, etc.) , less might do it to not as great an extent. Illegal immigrants also accept risks to come here. Remove or lessen the risk and we'd get more. Increase the risk and we'd probably get less. LESSEN THE RISK? HA - How about lessen the reward? Dis-allow the medical and welfare and I believe that the numbers woulod drop DRAMATICALLY! Add into that a fine and community service - hell - we then have something worth while.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #194 July 30, 2009 QuoteIllegal = Wrong I don't think i can break it down and make it any simpler for you to attempt understanding at this point. Unless you can show me how Illegal = Right Interesting thing is that you don't have a problem with at least one skydiver being in the US illegally....is it only when they are Mexican that you have an issue with the concept? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bolas 5 #195 July 30, 2009 Quote Unless you can show me how Illegal = Right. Devils advocate: Segregation laws.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chasteh 0 #196 July 30, 2009 No it worked out quite well. Thanks for playing, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chasteh 0 #197 July 30, 2009 Congratulations, again. You just confused liberalism with laziness. Way to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chasteh 0 #198 July 30, 2009 >Did you really just post this? What are you trying to say? Do you think it is "true" that something is wrong? Do you know anything about ethics? >Illegal immigrants also accept risks to come here. Remove or lessen the risk and we'd get more. Increase the risk and we'd probably get less. Am I disagreeing with that at all here? Each of you, except for Tom, has done excellently at blowing my original posts way out of proportion. Well done. Maybe we can bring your smear campaigns back into context. Here was the statement I made before each of you started. "As in morally wrong? It is "bad" that the wealthy have to be taxed for you to prosper? Ok... sure it sucks, but at some point in time you have to pay for the things the government provides - roads, air traffic control towers, the police, firefighters, and so on. He is saying that you always end up using those services for the purposes of building and protecting wealth. Even libertarians acknowledge the necessity of those services. Are you saying that they aren't necessary, or that the wealthy should pay less than they do now? Who else is going to pay for it, the middle class? The poor?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chasteh 0 #199 July 30, 2009 I am of the opinion that if you took all the "benefits" away, they woul still come in droves. Have you ever been to Mexico? Have you ever seen Juarez? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #200 July 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteHow many business's have you run? How many Fortune 500 companies have you worked for? They call it "human resources" for a reason. That's all employees are, a resource. As it should be. Employers have a job that needs doing, and employees have a need to earn a living. So they agree to arrangements to exchange labor for cash. If either side decides they no longer are getting what they need, end the arrangement. Simple enough, and nothing unfair about it. Either side whining about it is just so much noise." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Next Page 8 of 11 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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justinb138 0 #180 July 30, 2009 It's this reason that I believe that the majority of government spending should rest with the state & local governments - It's pretty easy to buy a few congressman without people finding out about it, It's alot harder to buy a few congressman in every state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #181 July 30, 2009 QuoteYou know, sort of like middle class conservatives do when they occasionally decide to not pay their income taxes or find loopholes with which to avoid paying. Wow, Geithner is a middle class conservative... thanks for the info!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #182 July 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteHow many business's have you run? How many Fortune 500 companies have you worked for? They call it "human resources" for a reason. That's all employees are, a resource. You guys are right I came in here and reacted to 1 post taken out of context. One reason I started my own business is I was unhappy working for a large corporation.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #183 July 30, 2009 Quote i think you'll find tax evasion illegal in most countries Did I illude something different?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #184 July 30, 2009 Quote>Simply put - Tax deductions = Legal But tax evasion is not. >Illegal Immigrationj = ILLEGAL. How scary! Let's find a way to equate it to something far more serious than it really is! FEAR! MURDER! RUN! >It's really not that hard to understand. Correct. You seem to be eager to accuse me of supporting law-breaking. But wait, if he supports breaking laws, then he supports murder! And if he supports murder, he is a horrible person. No one wants to support horrible murderers! Oh, the horror! Wow - you sound like Gates. Illegal is illega, and yes, if you break the law - you break the law. Why is it that people think that a law EXIST JUST TO BE BROKEN? That way of thinking can only be described as "Crininal". FYI: I never equated illegal immigration to murder, doing that is just your way of trying over emphasize my argument to try negate the truth, and attempting to circumvent your arguments baseless foundation. But, lets play your silly little game, I do equate illegal immigration to breaking and entering. I can assume that you wouldn't want someone to do that to you? If I'm wrong about that, then why wouldn't you just be giving all your possessions away?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chasteh 0 #185 July 30, 2009 Never fear, A mnealtx will always be here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #186 July 30, 2009 QuoteNever fear, A mnealtx will always be here. And I for one think the world is a better place for it.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chasteh 0 #187 July 30, 2009 >FYI: I never equated illegal immigration to murder, doing that is just your way of trying over emphasize my argument No shit! I combined a hyperbole with a slippery slope, and painted it with your words. >to try negate the truth Just out of curiosity, what are you considering "the truth" here? That you dislike immigration? Is it the "truth" that illegal immigration is wrong? Please. >and attempting to circumvent your arguments baseless foundation. What is my argument, exactly? Do you even remember? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chasteh 0 #188 July 30, 2009 Sure sure. The world is a better place with pissed off redneck conservative if and only if it is better of with old hippie liberal douche. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #189 July 30, 2009 QuoteNever fear, A mnealtx will always be here. Sucks when your little jab goes wide of the mark, doesn't it?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #190 July 30, 2009 Quote >to try negate the truth >>>>>Just out of curiosity, what are you considering "the truth" here? That you dislike immigration? Yes, if done ILLEGALLY - Is it the "truth" that illegal immigration is wrong? Please. Illegal = Wrong I don't think i can break it down and make it any simpler for you to attempt understanding at this point. Unless you can show me how Illegal = Right.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #191 July 30, 2009 QuoteSure sure. The world is a better place with pissed off redneck conservative if and only if it is better of with old hippie liberal douche. I was actually fairly liberal when I graduated high school... then I grew up and got a job.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #192 July 30, 2009 Quote Is it the "truth" that illegal immigration is wrong? Did you really just post this? If one thinks a law is unfair, they should try and change it, not just ignore it. Should they choose to do so, they accept the risk of getting caught. Ex: Like most, I speed. Like most, I've gotten caught and had to pay fines. I accept that risk because I know in the eyes of the law, I'm wrong. Were that risk removed or lessened (smaller fine or warning), more may do it or go even faster, were that risk increased (larger fine, loss of license, jailtime, etc.) , less might do it to not as great an extent. Illegal immigrants also accept risks to come here. Remove or lessen the risk and we'd get more. Increase the risk and we'd probably get less.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #193 July 30, 2009 Quote Quote Is it the "truth" that illegal immigration is wrong? Did you really just post this? If one thinks a law is unfair, they should try and change it, not just ignore it. Should they choose to do so, they accept the risk of getting caught. Ex: Like most, I speed. Like most, I've gotten caught and had to pay fines. I accept that risk because I know in the eyes of the law, I'm wrong. Were that risk removed or lessened (smaller fine or warning), more may do it or go even faster, were that risk increased (larger fine, loss of license, jailtime, etc.) , less might do it to not as great an extent. Illegal immigrants also accept risks to come here. Remove or lessen the risk and we'd get more. Increase the risk and we'd probably get less. LESSEN THE RISK? HA - How about lessen the reward? Dis-allow the medical and welfare and I believe that the numbers woulod drop DRAMATICALLY! Add into that a fine and community service - hell - we then have something worth while.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #194 July 30, 2009 QuoteIllegal = Wrong I don't think i can break it down and make it any simpler for you to attempt understanding at this point. Unless you can show me how Illegal = Right Interesting thing is that you don't have a problem with at least one skydiver being in the US illegally....is it only when they are Mexican that you have an issue with the concept? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #195 July 30, 2009 Quote Unless you can show me how Illegal = Right. Devils advocate: Segregation laws.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chasteh 0 #196 July 30, 2009 No it worked out quite well. Thanks for playing, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chasteh 0 #197 July 30, 2009 Congratulations, again. You just confused liberalism with laziness. Way to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chasteh 0 #198 July 30, 2009 >Did you really just post this? What are you trying to say? Do you think it is "true" that something is wrong? Do you know anything about ethics? >Illegal immigrants also accept risks to come here. Remove or lessen the risk and we'd get more. Increase the risk and we'd probably get less. Am I disagreeing with that at all here? Each of you, except for Tom, has done excellently at blowing my original posts way out of proportion. Well done. Maybe we can bring your smear campaigns back into context. Here was the statement I made before each of you started. "As in morally wrong? It is "bad" that the wealthy have to be taxed for you to prosper? Ok... sure it sucks, but at some point in time you have to pay for the things the government provides - roads, air traffic control towers, the police, firefighters, and so on. He is saying that you always end up using those services for the purposes of building and protecting wealth. Even libertarians acknowledge the necessity of those services. Are you saying that they aren't necessary, or that the wealthy should pay less than they do now? Who else is going to pay for it, the middle class? The poor?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chasteh 0 #199 July 30, 2009 I am of the opinion that if you took all the "benefits" away, they woul still come in droves. Have you ever been to Mexico? Have you ever seen Juarez? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #200 July 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteHow many business's have you run? How many Fortune 500 companies have you worked for? They call it "human resources" for a reason. That's all employees are, a resource. As it should be. Employers have a job that needs doing, and employees have a need to earn a living. So they agree to arrangements to exchange labor for cash. If either side decides they no longer are getting what they need, end the arrangement. Simple enough, and nothing unfair about it. Either side whining about it is just so much noise." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
