Minimum Wage Stuck in the 1950s

[chasteh 0]

>What do Larry Kellner,

An airline with fewer scumbags for managers/employees and intelligent pilots.

>Sean Penn

More movies.

>Dave Mathews

An excuse for Barack Obama.

>Bill Gates

An operating system better than windows.

>Ursula Burns

Copy machines. Lots and lots of copy machines.

>Justin Timberlake owe the American public in addition to what they already pay in taxes and charities?

A long and meaningful apology for Nsync. There is no excuse. Perhaps naked pictures of Alyssa Milano and Jessica Biel.

[chasteh 0]

>I simply want to know what amount super-rich people should pay (according to Quade) in addition to what they're paying now.

How about whatever amount they didn't actually earn themselves? That rules out theft, inheriting an upper-level position within a multinational corporation, and being created by an industry professional.

Who do we have left from your list, Sean Penn and Dave Matthews?

>Quade doesn't have a clue or a grip because he thinks that the rich have to be taxed for me to prosper.

Did he say that? Where?

>That's wrong.

As in morally wrong? It is "bad" that the wealthy have to be taxed for you to prosper? Ok... sure it sucks, but at some point in time you have to pay for the things the government provides - roads, air traffic control towers, the police, firefighters, and so on. He is saying that you always end up using those services for the purposes of building and protecting wealth. Even libertarians acknowledge the necessity of those services. Are you saying that they aren't necessary, or that the wealthy should pay less than they do now? Who else is going to pay for it, the middle class? The poor?

[TomAiello 26]

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There are plenty of examples in this world of people who have done great damage to society and became obscenely wealthy in the process. (Enron, Halliburton...

Interestingly, the thing that enriched Enron and Halliburton wasn't the market--it was abuse of government power. Get rid of the government power, and that problem kind of goes away, doesn't it?

Virtually all the "market failures" I've seen touted in the press in the last 10 years or so have actually been cases of government power being corrupted to private ends, and for private gain.

Which, coincidentally, is exactly what's happening with healthcare right now.

Imagine if the government mandated that every American had to buy a car? Amazing boon for the auto industry? That's so far beyond their lobbying ability that it's not even in their wildest dreams.

And yet, the health insurance industry is about to pull that one off. Talk about a massive abuse of public power for private gain. Getting Congress to pass a law requiring every single American to purchase your product. Wow. Just wow.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

• Quote

[TomAiello 26]

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...at some point in time you have to pay for the things the government provides...

Who is the "you" in this sentence?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[quade 4]

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That was a PA.

Hardly a PA. To me a Personal Attack is Quade saying that if I humbly start to build wealth by working smart and hard and maybe someday (with a little luck) I can increase my output and generate earnings that reward me and my family with a good life and possibly reap the rewards.... than I should be punished/taxed/discouraged/reprimanded for not looking out for the little guy.

That's a PA

edited to highlight Quade

Let me then suggest that you have no idea what a Personal Attack means.

YOU may want to rethink what those words mean.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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Quade, you are a moderator so don't avoid my question.

What do Larry Kellner, Sean Penn, Dave Mathews, Bill Gates, Ursula Burns, Justin Timberlake owe the American public in addition to what they already pay in taxes and charities?

Don't confuse indifference with avoidance. I had better things to do yesterday than to keep my eyes glued to this thread waiting for some comment by you.

What do those people "owe the American public in addition to what they already pay in taxes and charities?"

Gratitude. They should wake up every morning and be thankful of the people that supported them in their efforts, because without them, they would not be where they are.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[chasteh 0]

"To eat an apple, you have to ingest it."

>Who is the "you" in this sentence?

Whoever can relate.

>...at some point in time you have to pay for the things the government provides...

Who is NOT the "you" in this sentence?

Remember, the point is that wealthy individuals also rely on public infrastructure (more so, really, than lower income persons- how many people have to drive on public roads to obtain the services you provide? How does the sheriff's department work with you and your employees/customers? Who maintains the bridge? etc.)

[TomAiello 26]

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>...at some point in time you have to pay for the things the government provides...

Who is NOT the "you" in this sentence?

Presumably the people who never have to pay for those things.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[chasteh 0]

Please, elaborate.

[turtlespeed 220]

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Please, elaborate.

Anyone not picked up on the governments radar?

Those that are NOT paying taxes?

Those that are not LEGALLY residing here?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[chasteh 0]

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Anyone not picked up on the governments radar?

Those that are NOT paying taxes?

Those that are not LEGALLY residing here

You mean like Pedro outside who works outside all day to build the road you drive on, or Alejandro who is paid under the table to dig ditches, work in the fields, or trim the bushes in your yard?

Or are you referring to the sales taxes they still pay?

Oh, look! Your tagline even makes my point - only that it is more convenient for American nationalism!

"If you can read this, thank a teacher -and, since it's in English, thank a US soldier."

[turtlespeed 220]

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Anyone not picked up on the governments radar?

Those that are NOT paying taxes?

Those that are not LEGALLY residing here

You mean like Pedro outside who works outside all day to build the road you drive on, or Alejandro who is paid under the table to dig ditches, work in the fields, or trim the bushes in your yard?

Or are you referring to the sales taxes they still pay?

Oh, look! Your tagline even makes my point - only that it is more convenient for American nationalism!

"If you can read this, thank a teacher -and, since it's in English, thank a US soldier."

>>>>You mean like Pedro outside who works outside all day to build the road you drive on,
Yep - It is against federal law to hire an illegal alien, also look into the Davis Bacon Act

>>>> or Alejandro who is paid under the table to dig ditches,
Yes again . . . See above answer

>>>> work in the fields, or trim the bushes in your yard?

Actually I fired someone the other day because the papers didn't match up - he came back two days later and had a different name and a different social security card and a different drivers license - I called immigration.

Or are you referring to the sales taxes they still pay?

8.25% of what is spent on goods compared to what SHOULD be payed in federal income tax, Social security, and all those other charges on the tax forms is penny ante. And all Tax payers pay those too. So your argument is bunk.

>>>> Oh, look! Your tagline even makes my point - only that it is more convenient for American nationalism!

And I applaud you for finally getting the point, although you probably still won't see it that way.

This country in in financial trouble. Give a ways to those that are here illegally sponging off the system does no good for the country. It may help you feel better, but in reality you are the exacerbating the problem by not helping to enforce the law.

[headoverheels 333]

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I think quade's point is that people who have a lot of money somewhere along the way used either government infrastructure and/or employees

I use the same damned infrastructure-just not as effectively. Good for them. Enjoy the success and keep pumping resources back in to the economy.

Thank you, Joe the Plumber.

[chasteh 0]

>>Those that are NOT paying taxes?

>So your argument is bunk

Looks like yours is, because they pay taxes as well, just not as much. I never said that they paid as much as or more than other taxpayers.

>And I applaud you for finally getting the point, although you probably still won't see it that way.

You mean the point that says wealthy persons depend on the contributions of others? Oh ok.

>This country in in financial trouble. Give-a-ways to those that are here illegally sponging off the system does no good for the country.

Neither does giving trillions of dollars to wealthy white men.

>It may help you feel better, but in reality you are the exacerbating the problem by not helping to enforce the law.

Yea. As if blowing the situation out of proportion by employing thousands of new border patrol agents, undercover police officers, and building a giant fence on the border is not "exacerbating the problem."

What part of that doesn't add to the economic problem, again?

[headoverheels 333]

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What have you or I done that's touched even a fraction so many?

I've told over 40 million people what they weigh.

[futuredivot 0]

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Thank you, Joe the Plumber.

Actually, Shane the sales guy. Before that it was machinist-prior to that it's been everything from surveyor to short order cook. And, every since I was 13 and lied about my age to work in a cotton mill it's been Shane the taxpayer. I remember getting a raise when MW went to $3.15 and I didn't complain-but I also saw prices go up at the store where I bagged groceries because now they had to pay me more.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[rhaig 0]

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Anyone not picked up on the governments radar?

Those that are NOT paying taxes?

Those that are not LEGALLY residing here

You mean like Pedro outside who works outside all day to build the road you drive on, or Alejandro who is paid under the table to dig ditches, work in the fields, or trim the bushes in your yard?

Or are you referring to the sales taxes they still pay?

wherever you live, do a google maps search for "mexican grocery". go there, and if you can speak enough spanish to buy something or yours is the rare store that has a bilingual employee behind the register, and you pay cash, note how much sales tax you pay. Depending on the store, the person behind the counter, and the person making the purchase, sales tax appears to be optional. I've shopped at mexican groceries all over TX, KS, OK, MO, and IL. Anywhere there are workers, you will find these stores. Not all charge sales tax. Considering the amount of cash only business they do, I'd expect that they don't all pay it either.


so... you were saying??

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

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employing thousands of new border patrol agents, undercover police officers, and building a giant fence on the border is not "exacerbating the problem."

What part of that doesn't add to the economic problem, again?

That sounds like thousands of jobs. Including ongoing infrastructure maintainence. That sounds like it might subtract from the economic problem.

The problem with building a fence at the border is where are they going to find the day labor to build it?

--
Rob

[justinb138 0]

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That sounds like thousands of jobs. Including ongoing infrastructure maintainence. That sounds like it might subtract from the economic problem.

Spending money you don't have never improves an economic problem.

[chasteh 0]

>so... you were saying??


>>...at some point in time you have to pay for the things the government provides...

Cute. So now you're down to saying: "There has been a person at some point in time who has not had to pay sales tax."

I applaude you for the amount of time it took to establish that for me. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite demonstrate how government services go unpaid for, even for them (particularly if they are the ones most likely to be found building the public infrastructure that you blaim them for not paying for)

Interestingly enough, you have also done quite well to shift focus from the point at hand: That the wealthy depend greatly un public infrastructure. (And from Quade's posts, not that I agree or disagree, that the wealthy should pay more for those services)

[chasteh 0]

>That sounds like thousands of jobs. Including ongoing infrastructure maintainence. That sounds like it might subtract from the economic problem.

Well if you are a conservative, you are highly unlikely to support the government being the only source of revenue for the persons filling those jobs. Also, if you are a conservative, you would say that it is not the government's purpose to "subtract from the economic problem" because it results in socialistic authoritarian control patterns.

>The problem with building a fence at the border is where are they going to find the day labor to build it?

Carlos Mencia would tell you: Have the mexicans start it, then put them all on the other side of it to finish it off! Hooray!

[rhaig 0]

try to make my words say whatever you want. You know my intention was responding to the remark about the illegals paying sales tax.

and you know that it's more than "there exists at least one person that hasn't paid sales tax".

I'd hazzard that half of the sales in these stores to illegal immigrants don't have sales tax applied to the total properly. (and that may be low)

I was responding to one point. only one point. twist away.

--
Rob

[chasteh 0]

>try to make my words say whatever you want. You know my intention was responding to the remark about the illegals paying sales tax.

Interesting. And it doesn't negate my statement that services must be paid for at some point in time.

>and you know that it's more than "there exists at least one person that hasn't paid sales tax"

Would you be referring here to the corporate executive who is able to substantially reduce most of the taxes paid during his consumption as a result of "business espenses," or to the business he operates and the corporate tax rates he takes advantage of and society doesn't see in return, or to all the sales taxes combined that were left unpaid, in total, by those illegal immigrants? Which number do you think is more?

[rhaig 0]

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>try to make my words say whatever you want. You know my intention was responding to the remark about the illegals paying sales tax.

Interesting. And it doesn't negate my statement that services must be paid for at some point in time.

>and you know that it's more than "there exists at least one person that hasn't paid sales tax"

Would you be referring here to the corporate executive who is able to substantially reduce most of the taxes paid during his consumption as a result of "business espenses," or to the business he operates and the corporate tax rates he takes advantage of and society doesn't see in return, or to all the sales taxes combined that were left unpaid, in total, by those illegal immigrants? Which number do you think is more?

thank you for demonstrating the last two words of my post that you didn't quote.

twist away.

--
Rob

[chasteh 0]

>twist away

As if quoting '>try to make my words say whatever you want' didn't make that clear enough.

Remember, you still took MY statement out of context - oh well.