RonD1120 62
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QuoteQuoteAs an adult, I feel quite strongly about our Pledge. An organization I belong to, opens each monthly meeting by saying the Pledge and a short prayer. That really means something to me. As an adult, I've realized that as a kid... I didn't understand it and I didn't 'feel' it. I would imagine, it's not much different for kids today. We have a freedom of choice. I can see where kids should have the right to choose whether or not to say the pledge. I doubt, they'll grow-up any less patriotic.
I really admire the way you've been able to think about the topic on this thread. It's a rare occurrence in this Forum when a person comes into a topic with one idea, states it and then not only rethinks his position, but actually states that publicly.
A lot of times there is far more to a story or idea than what people initially see in it. The headlines grab people in a way that is emotional, but if they can stop and think about what's really going on, sometimes they can see the weirdness of the position to begin with.
I appreciate what you said.
I was just raised-up to keep an open mind. This just got me to thinking. Some things we just take for granted and our Pledge of allegiance shouldn't be. Just like our Constitution and our Bill of Rights.
We have a tendency to take things for granted and that's not a good thing. At some point in time, you just might not have it any more.
Chuck
QuoteI do think that children should be exposed to some of the reasoning behind the pledge throughout elementary school, to give them exposure to it, as well as the tools to think about it in age-appropriate ways.QuoteI would imagine, it's not much different for kids today. We have a freedom of choice. I can see where kids should have the right to choose whether or not to say the pledge. I doubt, they'll grow-up any less patriotic.
If they always have a choice, they probably won't say it. Most kids won't go to church if not forced as well. That's fine with some folks
I really liked what rhaig said about having dissected it and studied the concepts in 7th and 8th grades. If you don't fill your mind, you don't have a good basis for decisions.
The kid in my class who read the Bible in 7th grade all the way through, and rejected it based on that -- he gets my admiration.
Wendy P.
I like what you said! It's good.
Chuck
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QuoteQuoteQuoteFirst, I think kids should say the PoA at the beginning of the school day because it binds them together in the spirit of nationalism.
Second, I believe that nationalism is anachronistic and is being discouraged at every political opportunity.
Third, I believe the goal of our government is to create the North American Union with Canada and Mexico.
Fourth, as a former Taoseno and NM resident, I recall the state motto from one of their first senators,QuoteEvery calculation based on experience elsewhere fails in New Mexico.
So, what you're saying is that we better indoctrinate the little tikes early before they can think about it. This way it will be easier to force other jingoistic ideals down their throats later so they can fight off the invading horde from the south (and the north).
Dude, I have a job for YOU in 1938 Germany.
Brainwashing is never a good idea.
It looks to me like you stopped reading after the first point.
Really? Even when I specifically referenced the third?
Quote
I think nationalistic binding is a good thing but I believe it is rapidly losing favor along with the progressive wussification of America.
Why do you think being "nationalistic" is good? Is that a an honorable goal in and of itself? I mean, lot of folks in places like China are extremely "nationalistic", does that somehow equate with being a good country or is it instead a symptom of a country devoted to indoctrination of mindless obedience? Nazi Germany was nationalistic. Were they they good guys?
I don't think it makes any sense whatsoever to have forced false pride in a country. I think it makes much more sense to educate children and show them what makes the country worth having pride in and letting them figure it out for themselves.
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JohnnyD 0
We said the pledge every morning. I went to a very small school in a farming community and sometimes (especially in the winter) the buses wouldn't arrive at the same time. The pledge was used in the lower grades as kind of a mental tool that meant after its said, we sit down and its time for us to behave and start class. Worked fantastically. In the later grades we said the pledge as it was originally written and used that with our US history class. Again, I think it was a great tool to get our attention and teach us something.
pirana 0
How many of you said "invisible" instead of indivisible when you were really little?
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
QuoteWe said the pledge every morning. I went to a very small school in a farming community and sometimes (especially in the winter) the buses wouldn't arrive at the same time. The pledge was used in the lower grades as kind of a mental tool that meant after its said, we sit down and its time for us to behave and start class. Worked fantastically. In the later grades we said the pledge as it was originally written and used that with our US history class. Again, I think it was a great tool to get our attention and teach us something.
It was just about the time that 'one nation under God' was added that we started to recite the pledge. A couple years later, Russia invaded Hungary and the threat of 'atomic war' was quite real. We'd have 'air raid drills' and have to crawl under our desks. I have no idea how many times I banged my head on that desk! I hated those drills!
Chuck
RonD1120 62
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteFirst, I think kids should say the PoA at the beginning of the school day because it binds them together in the spirit of nationalism.
Second, I believe that nationalism is anachronistic and is being discouraged at every political opportunity.
Third, I believe the goal of our government is to create the North American Union with Canada and Mexico.
Fourth, as a former Taoseno and NM resident, I recall the state motto from one of their first senators,QuoteEvery calculation based on experience elsewhere fails in New Mexico.
So, what you're saying is that we better indoctrinate the little tikes early before they can think about it. This way it will be easier to force other jingoistic ideals down their throats later so they can fight off the invading horde from the south (and the north).
Dude, I have a job for YOU in 1938 Germany.
Brainwashing is never a good idea.
It looks to me like you stopped reading after the first point.
Really? Even when I specifically referenced the third?Quote
I think nationalistic binding is a good thing but I believe it is rapidly losing favor along with the progressive wussification of America.
Why do you think being "nationalistic" is good? Is that a an honorable goal in and of itself? I mean, lot of folks in places like China are extremely "nationalistic", does that somehow equate with being a good country or is it instead a symptom of a country devoted to indoctrination of mindless obedience? Nazi Germany was nationalistic. Were they they good guys?
I don't think it makes any sense whatsoever to have forced false pride in a country. I think it makes much more sense to educate children and show them what makes the country worth having pride in and letting them figure it out for themselves.
It no longer matters if I think nationalistic pride in America is of any value. Obviously, us old school guys are out. I stated it was anachronistic. You are picking argument where none exists. Egocentric thought rules! Hooray for me and screw everyone else. However, it is difficult to organize a parade when everyone is marching to the beat of a different drum.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteHow many of you said "invisible" instead of indivisible when you were really little?
I just mumbled through 'indivisible' till one day I got it right and really blurted it out. The whole class looked at me like 'what the heck'. I turned down the volume after that. You just had to remind me of that!
Chuck
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QuoteIt no longer matters if I think nationalistic pride in America is of any value.
I think you're fooling yourself if you ever thought it did.
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JohnnyD 0
QuoteQuoteWe said the pledge every morning. I went to a very small school in a farming community and sometimes (especially in the winter) the buses wouldn't arrive at the same time. The pledge was used in the lower grades as kind of a mental tool that meant after its said, we sit down and its time for us to behave and start class. Worked fantastically. In the later grades we said the pledge as it was originally written and used that with our US history class. Again, I think it was a great tool to get our attention and teach us something.
It was just about the time that 'one nation under God' was added that we started to recite the pledge. A couple years later, Russia invaded Hungary and the threat of 'atomic war' was quite real. We'd have 'air raid drills' and have to crawl under our desks. I have no idea how many times I banged my head on that desk! I hated those drills!
Chuck
We dove under our desks when the sirens went off during the cold war. We used that fun experience as a segway to learning about the red scare, communism, and the changes to the pledge.
It looks to me like you stopped reading after the first point. I think nationalistic binding is a good thing but I believe it is rapidly losing favor along with the progressive wussification of America. Training is what you initiate in the neophyte. Brainwashing is when you erase the training and replace it with something else. Revelation is when you see a better way.
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