Faith Healing Parents Let Daughter Die of Untreated Diabetes

[Andy9o8 2]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,535861,00.html?test=latestnews

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FOXNews.com
Jury Weighs Faith-Healing Death Case Against Girl's Dad

Friday , July 31, 2009

A jury in central Wisconsin was deliberating Friday in the case of a father charged with homicide for allegedly praying instead of taking his dying daughter to a doctor.

A prosecutor told jurors in closing arguments that Dale Neumann acted selfishly and killed his daughter in a test of his extreme religious beliefs.

The prosecutor argued that Neumann failed to meet his legal obligations as a parent and should be found guilty of homicide.

Neumann's attorney said his client honestly thought praying would heal his 11-year-old daughter Madeline and contended he did nothing criminally wrong.

Closing arguments ended Friday morning after four days of testimony in the second-degree reckless homicide trial. The jury began deliberating later in the day.

The girl's mother was convicted of the same charge in May.

Neumann was the last witness called Thursday in his trial in Wausau.

He told jurors he couldn't seek medical treatment for Madeline — who suffered from undiagnosed diabetes — without disobeying God.

"I can't do that because Biblically, I cannot find that is the way people are healed," Neumann said.

Prosecutors contend the 47-year-old father of three other children had a legal duty to take the girl to the hospital because her health had deteriorated to the point she couldn't walk, talk or eat.

Neumann testified he believed praying for the girl was needed because all healing comes from God and he never expected her to die.

"If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," Neumann said. "I am not believing what he said he would do."

Madeline died March 23, 2008, of diabetes on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed.

Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, preached to the jury about his faith in God's healing powers and cried out like he was talking to the Lord. He said he has been a born-again Christian since 1982.

He testified he thought Madeline had the flu or perhaps a fever but never expected her die. He thought she was in a deep sleep but not unconscious, even though her breathing was labored.

At one point in his nearly four hours of testimony, Neumann cried and nearly whispered to the jury.

"Who am I to predict death when death is an appointed time for all of us?" he asked.

Doctors testified earlier in the trial that Madeline would have had a good chance of surviving if she received medical treatment, including insulin and fluids, before she stopped breathing.

His wife and the girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, was convicted of second-degree reckless homicide this spring and faces up to 25 years in prison when sentenced Oct. 6.

Leilani Neumann testified earlier in her husband's trial that she noticed her daughter had been weaker and drank a lot of water — some early symptoms of diabetes — about two weeks before she died.

The prosecutions of the mother and father were separated so that each could be called upon to testify in the case against the other.

Also Thursday, a woman who prayed with the Neumanns and helped give Madeline a sponge bath hours before she died testified she thought the girl had the flu.

"She looked a little pale. I could see that she was weak," Lynn Wilde told the jury. "She would respond when we would call her name. She would make noises. She moved her head."

Wilde, a loyal member of Neumann's Bible study group, testified for the defense as Neumann's attorney tried to show the father didn't know how ill his daughter was.

Wilde said the five adults and three other children at the home prayed and took communion in an effort to heal the girl. She went home and took a nap, expecting the Neumanns to call later and say Madeline was fine and walking again.

"I believe in the power of prayer," Wilde testified.

The girl died about two hours later. Someone called 911 when she stopped breathing.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[Lefty 0]

My blood doesn't boil often, but this is one of those times. Fuck "faith healing" and fuck those crazies. How could they let their little girl die like that?

Edit: Furthermore, not one of those people in their little drum circle lifted a finger to help her. All it would have taken is a moment of clarity in a person's mind to realize "Holy crap, this is really stupid" and save her life. Man...

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[RonD1120 62]

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,535861,00.html?test=latestnews

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FOXNews.com
Jury Weighs Faith-Healing Death Case Against Girl's Dad

Friday , July 31, 2009

A jury in central Wisconsin was deliberating Friday in the case of a father charged with homicide for allegedly praying instead of taking his dying daughter to a doctor.

That is sad and ignorant. The parents could have looked to the Christian Medical and Dental Association for a referral within their faith.

http://www.cmda.org/

God works through doctors as well as all professions.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Zee 0]

Give'm the death penalty. That way he can meet his so called "god" face to face. Or not....

Action©Sports

[virgin-burner 1]

great faith, ey, letting your daughter die while others beat around how their "faith" has saved them; i guess the girl wasnt good enough in the eyes of the father..

oh, and of course, you do have an answer to that; i didnt expect any less from you!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[RonD1120 62]

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great faith, ey, letting your daughter die while others beat around how their "faith" has saved them; i guess the girl wasnt good enough in the eyes of the father..

oh, and of course, you do have an answer to that; i didnt expect any less from you!

I don't think you read my post.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[virgin-burner 1]

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great faith, ey, letting your daughter die while others beat around how their "faith" has saved them; i guess the girl wasnt good enough in the eyes of the father..

oh, and of course, you do have an answer to that; i didnt expect any less from you!

I don't think you read my post.

wasnt it you that tooted the "faith has saved me"-horn!? this is the continuation ad absurdum..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Tolgak 0]

Life in a medium security prison.

She not only died, but it was a torturous death. As bad as some felons are, they will mess with you even more if you do things to children. A life in a regular prison population will be a more appropriate penalty than death, which lets him get off his punishment quite easy.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[kallend 2,103]

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Life in a medium security prison.

She not only died, but it was a torturous death.

I wonder why the will of a loving caring omnipotent omniscient God is that she should die a horrible tortuous death.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Tolgak 0]

Clearly it was to test the faith of the parents...

Nothing like sacrificing one to make others say funny things to show benevolence.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[maadmax 0]

I wonder why the will of a loving caring omnipotent omniscient God is that she should die a horrible tortuous death.

[kallend 2,103]

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I wonder why the will of a loving caring omnipotent omniscient God is that she should die a horrible tortuous death.

If you knew the plan of Him whom you disbelieve it would not be that hard to understand.

[chasteh 0]

Haven't you heard? God isn't your friend. He is your master. Yep. The one master that you, apparently, need to be in favor of. The one who has this plan, we think, who is a good god, we hope, who shares the same interests as us, we are sure.

[georgerussia 0]

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"I can't do that because Biblically, I cannot find that is the way people are healed," Neumann said.

At least this one seems to be a real believer in God - unlike a lot of others, who claim they believe in Jesus but refer to mortal, mistake-making and imperfect human beings instead of perfect and omnipotent/omniscient Jesus when they got sick.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[TomAiello 26]

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So the torturous death of a child is all part of HIS plan.

I don't think I like HIM at all. Not one little bit.

"God hates me, that's what it is."

"Hate him back. It works for me!"

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[kbordson 8]

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"I can't do that because Biblically, I cannot find that is the way people are healed," Neumann said.

At least this one seems to be a real believer in God - unlike a lot of others, who claim they believe in Jesus but refer to mortal, mistake-making and imperfect human beings instead of perfect and omnipotent/omniscient Jesus when they got sick.

Yes, her parents belief in God was "real." And if HE had diabetes and refused medical care, that I would ABSOLUTELY respect. But what about her beliefs and rights? As a child, did she have any rights in this situation?

I know that would be a totally different discussion point, but a question to consider in this case would be "what rights do children have when it seems that their parents have deviated from social norms?" Should it be "I brought you into this world; I can take you out."? Or that parents have no personal judgment, only what society has accepted as "correct"?

[georgerussia 0]

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Yes, her parents belief in God was "real." And if HE had diabetes and refused medical care, that I would ABSOLUTELY respect. But what about her beliefs and rights? As a child, did she have any rights in this situation?

Well, it's a typical religion issue - a religious person believes that others should be happy to suffer or even die because of their beliefs. Not really different from those who bombs buildings or burns witches.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Rookie120 0]

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"God hates me, that's what it is."

"Hate him back. It works for me!"

I love that line in Lethal Weapon.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[virgin-burner 1]

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Yes, her parents belief in God was "real." And if HE had diabetes and refused medical care, that I would ABSOLUTELY respect. But what about her beliefs and rights? As a child, did she have any rights in this situation?

Well, it's a typical religion issue - a religious person believes that others should be happy to suffer or even die because of their beliefs. Not really different from those who bombs buildings or burns witches.

spell it out, its FUNDAMENTALIST WHACKOS!!!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[maadmax 0]

So the torturous death of a child is all part of HIS plan.

[pirana 0]

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So the torturous death of a child is all part of HIS plan.

Of course not, but our free will is a part of His plan. And because of that there will be suffering until we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

[jtnesbitt 0]

Joke a priest once told me:

There was once a small town that sat in a floodplain. After several days of heavy rain the town began to flood with no end in sight so the town began to evacuate. There was an old man that lived on a small hill that chose not to leave. Eventually resucers sent a truck up to get him. He refused the help saying "God will provide for me." The waters continued to rise and eventually all the roads were under water. A boat goes to the old man who again refuses help saying "God will provide for me." The water continues to rise submerging everything. A helicopter is sent out to rescue the old man who by now is sitting on his roof. He again refuses help saying "God will provide for me." The water rises above the roof and the old man drowns. When he gets to heaven and is faced with God he says "I served you my entire life and put all my faith in you to protect me...why did you not provide for me when i needed it most?"



To this God replied "Who do you think sent the truck, the boat, and the helicopter?"

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[kallend 2,103]

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So the torturous death of a child is all part of HIS plan.

Of course not, but our free will is a part of His plan. And because of that there will be suffering until we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

[virgin-burner 1]

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So the torturous death of a child is all part of HIS plan.

Of course not, but our free will is a part of His plan. And because of that there will be suffering until we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

That is just the lamest apology for your illogical irrational belief system.

you just dont understand because you dont have FAITH!!!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[chasteh 0]

>Of course not, but our free will is a part of His plan.

Uh oh. Well wait a minute now, do we have free will?

Did god give us free will? If god gave us free will, why did we have to take it? Does that make us free?

Also, if our free will is part of his plan, how is it still free will? That sounds more like the imposition of a free-will delusion complex for the purposes of meeting God's goal, not necessarily free will.