Tide changing elements directly from the Health Care Proposal

[SkyChimp 0]

This was posted earlier this week on a different blog but I wanted everyone here to see the major issues in this large proposal. I hope this resignates with someone when our politicians aren't reading the pages before they vote on it. PAGE 59 got me stirred up!!!


Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 4:12:23 PM by CMS

• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!

• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!

• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)

• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.

• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.

• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.

• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)

• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens

• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.

• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.

• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.

• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.

• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.

• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll <>BR • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll

• Page 167: Any individual who doesnt' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.

• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).

• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.

• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."

• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)

• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.

• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.

• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.

• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.

• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!

• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.

• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.

• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.

• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.

• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.

• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).

• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?

• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.

• Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.

• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.

• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.

• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.

• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.

• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.

• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.









Page 425 of the Health Care Bill







Please read all of this.







Please send an email to the Blue Dog Democrats and ask them to vote against the Health Care Reform in the House. Nancy Pelosi is going to try to ram it through next week and we've got to stop her.



The email address is:



BlueDog@mail.house.gov





If this doesn't make your blood boil........... nothing will!!)





Page 425 of Health Care Bill - Listen to this interview Fred Thompson's=2 0Radio Show interviewing Betsy McCaughey (pronounced Mc Coy). Or look it up on www.fredthompsonshow.com, under interviews.







On page 425 it says in black and white that EVERYONE on Social Security, (will include all Senior Citizens and SSI people) will go to MANDATORY counseling every 5 years to learn and to choose from ways to end your suffering (and your life). Health care will be denied based on age. 500 Billion will be cut from Senio rs healthcare. The only way for that to happen is to drastically cut health care, the oldest and the sickest will be cut first. Paying for your own care will not be an option.







Now, CALL YOUR PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell them to read page 425 if they don't read anything else. Surely some of them have parents.









"ON PAGE 425 OF OBAMA’S HEALTH CARE BILL, the Federal Government will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just how to end their own life earlier. Yes...They are going to push SUICIDE to cut medicare spending!"

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[billvon 2,998]

>ON PAGE 425 OF OBAMA’S HEALTH CARE BILL, the Federal Government
>will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling
>session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to
>them just how to end their own life earlier.

Exactly. The US Government will be telling people how to construct nooses and how to slit their wrists to end their lives earlier, along with more prosaic means like how to reprogram their PCA devices to deliver a fatal overdose. This is understandable; after all, many of these people know that Obama is an illegal alien, that Bush pre-wired the Twin Towers with explosives, and that the Kennedy assasination was an inside job.

[kbordson 8]

Ya know...

Maybe I'll just go and practice in Peru.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Ya know...

Maybe I'll just go and practice in Peru.

Don't forget Gramma's pain pills - after all, she's old and doesn't need the pacemaker according to Barry.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[skybill 22]

Quote

>ON PAGE 425 OF OBAMA’S HEALTH CARE BILL, the Federal Government
>will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling
>session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to
>them just how to end their own life earlier.

Exactly. The US Government will be telling people how to construct nooses and how to slit their wrists to end their lives earlier, along with more prosaic means like how to reprogram their PCA devices to deliver a fatal overdose. This is understandable; after all, many of these people know that Obama is an illegal alien, that Bush pre-wired the Twin Towers with explosives, and that the Kennedy assasination was an inside job.

Hi Bill,
'Ya left out the part about the Kool-ade packages being issued with the National Health ID Card!!..............I have only a one word comment to Barry about his plans.......(As Bill Cosby [as Noah] said to God about the impending Thunder showers....."R---I---G---H---T---!!!!!!") did you buy the "astroturff" line???

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[lawrocket 3]

A year ago (maybe two) I posted that if the government were to take over health care and limit costs, one of the most important things it would have to do is limit end of life care.

People who do not die suddenly are sick. Let's say there is a 75 year old woman with congestive heart failure. She'll be in and out of the hospital frequently. Those last few years of her life will cost a lot. The government will not want to pay for it - she no longer is providing revenues.

So limiting costs means limiting end-of-life care. I'm not painting a picture of soylent green or of euthanasia day at the geriatric hospital ("Frankenstein! Frankenstein!"). However, I can see this end-of-life counseling as suggesting things like DNR orders, powers of attorney and other things that will keep the family members out of it.

(Note: I'm not even saying this is a bad thing. Too often, Nana is found by a concerned neighbor in her home passed out, barely breathing and covered in feces. She's taken to the hospital by ambulance and they try to stabilize her dehydrated and in acute-on-chronic renal failure self. Grandkids (who haven't seen her in 8 months) come in. "Do whatever you can." 8 days, 4 codes and $800k later she dies. They find her DNR at her home while prepping for an estate sale.)

Note what these things are - they are cost-saving rationing measures. Exactly what must be done to ensure affordability and quality of the care that is delivered.

The point of health care reform is to control how much is paid for it. That being the No. 1 priority means other matters are secondary.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[wmw999 2,452]

Having dealt with this issue recently and in the past, I think I have at least some qualifications to comment. Again, it's anecdotal, but at least it's my anecdote.

From Politifact:

Quote

...Sec. 1233 of the bill, labeled "Advance Care Planning Consultation" details how the bill would, for the first time, require Medicare to cover the cost of end-of-life counseling sessions.

According to the bill, "such consultation shall include the following: An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to; an explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses; an explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy."

Medicare will cover one session every five years, the legislation states. If a patient becomes very ill in the interim, Medicare will cover additional sessions.

Note, by the way, that the sessions are NOT mandatory -- this portion of the bill requires that Medicare pay for this counseling if the patient wants it. Which means that the doctor now has time to do it, rather than having to rush through it because he can't bill for it.

Many older people want more control in what goes on late in their lives. They lose so much control -- driving, living on their own, control of their medication, their friends die, no one needs their advice any more. What wrong can possibly happen from giving them knowledge about possibilities in the future. Of my dad's friends, one did want extensive procedures, and got them. The others had no interest in it. One woman, in fact, finally decided that she was sick of living, and just stopped taking her diabetes medication, knowing full well what that meant.

Death is going to happen to us. If you're lucky, you get some control over how it happens. And knowledge helps you to exercise that control.

Note that Politifact is a piece of the St. Petersburg Times, and it won the 2009 Pulitzer for national reporting for its coverage of the 2008 elections.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Ion01 2]

Quote

>ON PAGE 425 OF OBAMA’S HEALTH CARE BILL, the Federal Government
>will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling
>session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to
>them just how to end their own life earlier.

Exactly. The US Government will be telling people how to construct nooses and how to slit their wrists to end their lives earlier, along with more prosaic means like how to reprogram their PCA devices to deliver a fatal overdose. This is understandable; after all, many of these people know that Obama is an illegal alien, that Bush pre-wired the Twin Towers with explosives, and that the Kennedy assasination was an inside job.

This is not conspirousy stuff! This is what the bill says! Some of this stuff is already happening. You can ignore it and be shocked later when you find out its for real or take action.
Here is one example of how this stuff is already happening!
Some terminally ill patients in Oregon who turned to their state for health care were denied treatment and offered doctor-assisted suicide instead, a proposal some experts have called a "chilling" corruption of medical ethics.

Since the spread of his prostate cancer, 53-year-old Randy Stroup of Dexter, Ore., has been in a fight for his life. Uninsured and unable to pay for expensive chemotherapy, he applied to Oregon's state-run health plan for help.

Lane Individual Practice Association (LIPA), which administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County, responded to Stroup's request with a letter saying the state would not cover Stroup's pricey treatment, but would pay for the cost of physician-assisted suicide.

Here are some other things that have happened in the past the people think this government would never do.
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the 1927 Buck v. Bell case that the state of Virginia could sterilize those it thought unfit. The most significant era of eugenic sterilization was between 1907 and 1963, when over 64,000 individuals were forcibly sterilized under eugenic legislation in the United States.
When Nazi administrators went on trial for war crimes in Nuremberg after World War II, they justified the mass sterilizations (over 450,000 in less than a decade) by citing the United States as their inspiration.[59] American eugenicists inspired and supported Hitler's racial purification laws, and failed to understand the connection between those policies and the eventual genocide of the Holocaust.

[DanG 1]

Sources?

- Dan G

[marks2065 0]

Exactly. The US Government will be telling people how to construct nooses and how to slit their wrists to end their lives earlier, along with more prosaic means like how to reprogram their PCA devices to deliver a fatal overdose. This is understandable; after all, many of these people know that Obama is an illegal alien, that Bush pre-wired the Twin Towers with explosives, and that the Kennedy assasination was an inside job.

[kallend 2,027]

You would make a better case if you checked your facts BEFORE posting rubbish from a right wing blog. The actual text of the bill is, after all, available online.

To take but two examples that you find particularly upsetting: p59 says nothing whatever about requiring the govt. to have direct access to your bank account, and p425 says nothing whatever about mandatory counselling for ending one's life.

The reference to the Fred Thompson interview has already been debunked by Factcheck.org.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 4]

Quote

You would make a better case if you checked your facts BEFORE posting rubbish from a right wing blog. The actual text of the bill is, after all, available online.

To take but two examples that you find particularly upsetting: p59 says nothing whatever about requiring the govt. to have direct access to your bank account, and p425 says nothing whatever about mandatory counselling for ending one's life.

The reference to the Fred Thompson interview has already been debunked by Factcheck.org.

Unfortunately this now seems to be the strategy the right wing lobbying groups have taken; disinformation.

Ironic since just a few weeks ago a well known right wing bimbo was calling for the news to "stop making things up".

Coupled with the astroturf movement tactic of simply shouting down discourse, I begin to wonder who really are the Orwellians here.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[marks2065 0]

Quote

You would make a better case if you checked your facts BEFORE posting rubbish from a right wing blog. The actual text of the bill is, after all, available online.

To take but two examples that you find particularly upsetting: p59 says nothing whatever about requiring the govt. to have direct access to your bank account, and p425 says nothing whatever about mandatory counselling for ending one's life.

The reference to the Fred Thompson interview has already been debunked by Factcheck.org.

If any of this is true we don't want it. say you are correct and these 2 are false, prove everyone of these false and I'll consider giving it my blessing, if only one is true I don't want it.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

You would make a better case if you checked your facts BEFORE posting rubbish from a right wing blog. The actual text of the bill is, after all, available online.

To take but two examples that you find particularly upsetting: p59 says nothing whatever about requiring the govt. to have direct access to your bank account, and p425 says nothing whatever about mandatory counselling for ending one's life.

The reference to the Fred Thompson interview has already been debunked by Factcheck.org.

If any of this is true we don't want it. say you are correct and these 2 are false, prove everyone of these false and I'll consider giving it my blessing, if only one is true I don't want it.

I have already shown that the original is unreliable. If you wish to believe every other point a proven unreliable document makes, that's your problem.

Of course, rather than believing right wing blogs you could always check for yourself.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[marks2065 0]

I have already shown that the original is unreliable. If you wish to believe every other point a proven unreliable document makes, that's your problem.

Of course, rather than believing right wing blogs you could always check for yourself.

[wmw999 2,452]

So in other words you're perfectly willing to believe the rest of that article even if parts of it are proven to be lying bullshit?

Interesting.

Quote

I have seen nothing from the left to prove what the right is saying is false, only shouting that everyone is lying. You, in this case, are just as guilty of doing what you acuse the right of doing.

Well, actually, if you were to go up a little higher, I posted something pretty long about the end-of-life-counseling item (p. 425).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[marks2065 0]

Quote

So in other words you're perfectly willing to believe the rest of that article even if parts of it are proven to be lying bullshit?

Interesting.

Wendy P.

Quote

I have read some of the pages of the bill and listened to the media(both left and right), as a hole this thing is a piece of shit. I have seen no proof that any of this is a lie and yes there are twists in the reporting. I believe it is up to Obama to put it on paper, have congress study the bill, and explain it to us in plain english how this system will work, and show us were in the bill these fears are wrong. none of this has been done and won't be done ever.

The democrats want this bill passed before anyone can do anything that might alter the outcome. If this bill is as good as they say, wouldn't it stand up to the scrutiny that it deserves? Is their position not strong enough to answer the tough questions? Who is going to die because it doesn't get passed in 30 days? nobody thats who. Our health care system is not broken, it is the most advanced and open system in the world. we do have problems but are they really unfixable? can't we just do a couple things to improve the faults and then readdress the effects in a couple years?

[wmw999 2,452]

There are over 1000 pages of bill. They (as a rule) amend thousand-plus page documents (i.e. each section really needs to be inserted into context).

If you'd really, really, like, I can copy and paste the piece about end-of-life counseling into the appropriate acts (if I can find them online), and then interpret it for you.

I don't think that would make a difference, though, would it? It'd just make me look like a suck-up who's willing to do anything to "convince" someone who is bound and determined not to be convinced.

Note I'm not necessarily coming down in favor of this bill. I haven't been jumping on the bandwagon. But automatically trusting a source because it feels good is stupid. Go look at the evidence, and judge for yourself.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I don't think that would make a difference, though, would it? It'd just make me look like a suck-up who's willing to do anything to "convince" someone who is bound and determined not to be convinced.

If you didn't have a life of your own, why not?

The funny part is that you can pass a bill with a thousand pages of text, but the real rules get written by the bureaucracy charged with implementation, and sometimes their decisions completely turn the bill on its head. (example: the bill that was supposed to ban employer health plans that would not give care to those who engaged in legal, but risky activities like riding a motorcycle)

[wmw999 2,452]

By the way, folks -- did you know that you can sign an advanced directives document to say that yes, you do want all possible life-saving measures taken? The document just helps to formalize what you want.

How many of the people here want the potential of being tube-fed, if they get old enough that their swallow isn't very good any more? It'd keep you alive longer than if you keep eating (and enjoying) the food, even though you might get aspiration pneumonia.

Talk to someone you trust. Then formalize your wishes. And then take care of yourself, so that those wishes never, ever have to be evaluated.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[marks2065 0]

Quote

There are over 1000 pages of bill. They (as a rule) amend thousand-plus page documents (i.e. each section really needs to be inserted into context).

If you'd really, really, like, I can copy and paste the piece about end-of-life counseling into the appropriate acts (if I can find them online), and then interpret it for you.

I don't think that would make a difference, though, would it? It'd just make me look like a suck-up who's willing to do anything to "convince" someone who is bound and determined not to be convinced.

Note I'm not necessarily coming down in favor of this bill. I haven't been jumping on the bandwagon. But automatically trusting a source because it feels good is stupid. Go look at the evidence, and judge for yourself.

Wendy P.

Obama and the democrats are coming to me and telling me that I need help, I don't believe them. The burdon is on them to convince me this is in my best interest and they have no intention of doing that, only gaining control and making me accept their choices.

[marks2065 0]

Quote

By the way, folks -- did you know that you can sign an advanced directives document to say that yes, you do want all possible life-saving measures taken? The document just helps to formalize what you want.

How many of the people here want the potential of being tube-fed, if they get old enough that their swallow isn't very good any more? It'd keep you alive longer than if you keep eating (and enjoying) the food, even though you might get aspiration pneumonia.

Talk to someone you trust. Then formalize your wishes. And then take care of yourself, so that those wishes never, ever have to be evaluated.

Wendy P.

Quote

just because you wish to try to live longer doesn't mean the government will give you the care to extend your life. I don't mean living like a vegetable but maybe an operation or pill might give you productive years but the government doesn't feel your life is worth it. If socialized health care works, why are so many stories coming out of england and canada saying it doesn't?

[DanG 1]

As opposed to your current insurance company? There are caps on payments from private insurance, too. If you've reached your limit, sorry, no more payments. Why do you think this would change if the payment check says "US Treasury" instead of "Blue Cross" in the upper left corner?

- Dan G

[catfishhunter 2]

Watch out Billy Boy,kally and qualude are gonna report you to the whitehouse for posting "fishy" information.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/06/critics-accuse-white-house-playing-big-brother-health-care-debate/
Opps maybe they will put me in the database as well...hmm think they will come after me for saying that you need to keep buying guns and bullets?

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Unfortunately this now seems to be the strategy the right wing lobbying groups have taken; disinformation.

This could also be seen as being ripe for disinformation, because that's what the White House and Congress is putting out. People are catching onto this. Good for them.

We are all engines of karma