OBAMA: 'I don't want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess'...

[rushmc 23]

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Its out there billvon

what are your ideas?

How BIG do really think this problem is?

We already know the number used to show how many are un-insured includes an estimated 12M illeagals.

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Bilvon doesn't care about the other Ideas, doesn't care that we will pay for every non citizen that is here or can get to the US for medical treatment, doesnt care that millions that can get insurance don't want to, doesn't care that the government will dictate the type of insurance or treatment you will or will not get. NOBODY in this country is denied medical treatment right now so what is the big rush? the big rush is that Obama knows that when his plan is looked at closely people will know that it is a piece of shit and won't get passed, so he needs to get the votes before it is read.

Well lets just hope that is already too late

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Obama and the Dems consider themselves too smart to listen to the "people".

I disagree. Congress thinks they are too smart. It is not one party or the other, it IS both. The problem here is that there are two sides that have drawn lines in the sand and are willing to sacrifice all of us for a delusional win.

Hmmm, I agree with the both sides point. The other point is an interesting one which I need to ponder a bit

Thanks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,998]

>There have been 37 proposals by the republicans....ALL were rejected
>without discussion.

Let's see one of those proposals and proof of its rejection without discussion.

[rhaig 0]

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>I guess the democratic process is not what Obama wants.

I firmly believe in the right of every republican _and_ democrat to help solve our problems - or, failing that, to get the hell out of the way.

and all the other people that don't name their point of view by joining one of those 2 parties can just slide?

The two party mentality must stop.

--
Rob

[BrendaHupp 0]

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Let's see one of those proposals and proof of its rejection without discussion

Rys? Sorry, had to be said. Oh please Bill, you are starting to sound like my teenage daughter and I send her to her room when she talks like that. You are smart enough to go third party verify it yourself. It was all over CNN and others about three weeks ago.

I guess I could play your game and say show me where the democrats have accepted any republican proposals...........please cite the page in the 1018 page proposal that shows that.

[Ion01 2]

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>wether or not Obama and the left agree or dissagree with the right
>doesn't matter, all sides have a right to be heard and adressed.

Absolutely - and they are being heard. The people who do nothing but bitch while offering no solutions of their own are being ignored, and that's how it should be. The ones who are lying are being exposed, and that's how it should be as well.

>Obama clearly doesn't want oposition to his position to be heard . . . .

. . . and so he shut down FOX?

The right wing is getting more and more paranoid by the day.

really?

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/shock-video-dems-sneak-union-thugs-into.html

http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/attorneys-for-kenneth-gladney-call-on.html

http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/attorneys-for-kenneth-gladney-call-on.html

On top of this the lyers are the government not the people!
Obama, during his run for president, told people to argue and get in peoples faces yet others want to ask questions and demand the government follow the constitution and they are a mob and should shut up? GET REAL!
In addition, how can a solution be offered if there is no real problem? Infact, there is a solution being offered! The solution is for the government to get out of it! The solution is for the government to follow the constitution and not be involved where they are not allowed to. The only real problems in with healthcare are where government is already involved so they need to get out.
It would be like me saying there is a problem with the design of the ram air parachute so the solution is to go back to the tried and true design of the round! People die all the time from slamming into the ground in these parachutes but that doesn't happen with rounds. And when you respond by saying I should be free to fly what parachute I want and that is not a problem with the ram air parachute and I have never designed anything that was good so why should I be designing it and that round have been used for a long time and are not as good......I tell you to SHUT UP because you don't offer a solution! Then tell everyone to report to me any opposition (flag@whitehouse.gov) and spend money I take from you (taxes) to convince everyone I am right, pay groups to control my meetings so people cant let me know what they really think (ACORN, SEIU) tell everyone that if you critize me or my supports by using your right of free speech we will punch back twice as hard. Does that sound fair and balanced to you?! Does that sound like the way our government is supposed to operate?

[kelpdiver 2]

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What happened to all his talk about being so bi-partisan? I guess we can just throw that in with all the other lies he has and continues to tell.

Every Washington leader enters with the notion of bipartisanship. Bush, Newt, Clinton, ... I've never heard one come in saying 'fuck the other party, we're going to do it my way.' (well, if Chaney had actually been elected as Pres, it might happen) Bush showed immediate that it was a lie, and we've heard enough snarky comments from Obama to see it again.

The GOP has been the party of "No" so far this year, offering essentially nothing. Perhaps that should be their role, since they are so lacking in leadership that Palin is still covered in the news.

Tort reform is not a proposal - that's been talked about for decades. Changing our civil courts to loser pays - that's not about solving a problem, that's about shutting down access for 95% of the country to the legal system.

[dreamdancer 0]

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The right wing is getting more and more paranoid by the day.

they are fun to watch

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[marks2065 0]

the left has been screeming for years but now they are getting it back. as far as I'm concerned i hope it gets worse, alot worse, and when it gets to the point that Obama Polosi & Reed can't show up in public any more I hope it gets worse still. Maybe then they will start working for the people and not making us work for them.

[Ion01 2]

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What happened to all his talk about being so bi-partisan? I guess we can just throw that in with all the other lies he has and continues to tell.

Every Washington leader enters with the notion of bipartisanship. Bush, Newt, Clinton, ... I've never heard one come in saying 'fuck the other party, we're going to do it my way.' (well, if Chaney had actually been elected as Pres, it might happen) Bush showed immediate that it was a lie, and we've heard enough snarky comments from Obama to see it again.

The GOP has been the party of "No" so far this year, offering essentially nothing. Perhaps that should be their role, since they are so lacking in leadership that Palin is still covered in the news.

Tort reform is not a proposal - that's been talked about for decades. Changing our civil courts to loser pays - that's not about solving a problem, that's about shutting down access for 95% of the country to the legal system.

I am not about to support the republicans but lets get serious here. What makes you think that because someone is doing something (saying yes) that its a good thing? People are saying no becuase the government has over stepped its bounds under the constitution and has for decades! The correct direction is not more government but less. The correct solution is not more government but less. We (not necessarily the republicans....or republicrats or demopublicans or whatever you want to call them)say less government and you say all we say is no! We say yes.....to less government! We say yes to the freedom that this country was founded on. We say yes to the liberty that the government was established to protect! We say yes to people being able to make thier own choices!

I will give you this, the republicans are just about as much of the problem as the democrats.

[rushmc 23]

Tort reform is not a proposal - that's been talked about for decades. Changing our civil courts to loser pays - that's not about solving a problem, that's about shutting down access for 95% of the country to the legal system.

[tkhayes 348]

Nothing wrong with a president that is at least honest. I said it too in several posts - Stand Aside, we have some changes to make.

We put up with 8 years of bullshit lying crap, wars, cheating, torture and economic policies that spelled disaster with GWB

so yes, stand aside, while we fix a few things.

[rushmc 23]

which obama do you believe?

The one that says he will not take our private health care or the one that says it will take some time to get it all in the gov program?

Or the one that says he will not raise taxes on the middle class, or the one that says (what you have bought into) that says he will not?



thanks dude.

You shortened my afternoon
Glad to see you dont buy into free speach either.

You and your Obama are buddies I can tell

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

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The people who do nothing but bitch while offering no solutions of their own are being ignored, and that's how it should be.

As are those that are bitching and offering competing solutions.

As are those who are bitching that "the problem is not the insurajnce companies.". Who make actually have a valid point.

As are those who say, "the effect of this is gonna be x, y and z."

As are those who actually have something to lose. People like me are considered by the president to merely be the victim of manufactured fear. I've therefore got nothing to say.

Issues:
(1) What is the mess?
(2) Who created it?
(3) How did they create it?
(4) How will this solution clean up the mess?


[Reply]The ones who are lying are being exposed, and that's how it should be as well.

[downwardspiral 0]

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Nothing wrong with a president that is at least honest. I said it too in several posts - Stand Aside, we have some changes to make.

We put up with 8 years of bullshit lying crap, wars, cheating, torture and economic policies that spelled disaster with GWB

so yes, stand aside, while we fix a few things.

So then you think he really likes Bud Light?!

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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Your points are the same tired ones thrown about by the lawyers lobby for decades

And your's sound as tired as the ones Brady throws around to argue for gun bans.

[Ion01 2]

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Nothing wrong with a president that is at least honest. I said it too in several posts - Stand Aside, we have some changes to make.

We put up with 8 years of bullshit lying crap, wars, cheating, torture and economic policies that spelled disaster with GWB

so yes, stand aside, while we fix a few things.

Yea, and everything that was so horrible about bush got voted down by the democratic controlled house.....no....wait..... they voted for all that stuff.....so its really the democrats fault too.....

[rushmc 23]

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Your points are the same tired ones thrown about by the lawyers lobby for decades

And your's sound as tired as the ones Brady throws around to argue for gun bans.

i am surprised at which one(s) you support

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Nothing wrong with a president that is at least honest. I said it too in several posts - Stand Aside, we have some changes to make.

We put up with 8 years of bullshit lying crap, wars, cheating, torture and economic policies that spelled disaster with GWB

so yes, stand aside, while we fix a few things.

So then you think he really likes Bud Light?!

Ya think?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Rookie120 0]

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they are fun to watch

Is that your thought od Altnet.org?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[billvon 2,998]

>http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

Cool, an actual proposal instead of the endless zero-content attacks! Let's take a look at that proposal:

1. Making Health Care More Affordable for All Americans

This section talks about getting more affordable care. The plan:

-Cut taxes for people who do not have health care. That's great, but doesn't solve the problem of people who can't afford it to begin with. It also penalizes companies who provide health care for their employees; that is VERY bad news. Why punish the companies who are doing the right thing?

-Give money to people who have none (via tax credits) to assist with health care. OK, sounds good, although I must say I am surprised that republicans now support wealth redistribution.

-Group negotiation for health care. Sounds good.

-Cut the "waste, fraud and abuse" from Medicare. Meaningless words. Every politician for the past 50 years has been promising that. Tell me what they are going to cut and I'll believe it.

-Improve health savings accounts. Good idea! Let's see the details. How will they improve them?

-Tort reform. A great idea; let's see the details.

2. Making Health Care More Available & Accessible for All Americans.

This section lists all the ways that republicans will help Americans get coverage. How? By "encouraging" things. They will "encourage states" to create a Universal Access Program. They will be "encouraging employers" to move to opt-out. "Small businesses will be encouraged" to do the right thing by offering a small tax cut.

If "encouraging" people to do the right thing is going to work, they may as well just encourage people to not get sick. Solves the entire problem.

All in all, a few good ideas, but falls very far short of a real plan - and they need to think about how they will implement it. But it's a good starting point and I encourage them to work on turning it into a plan.

[billvon 2,998]

>I've got my thought - why do you not want this thoroughly read
>and understood? Same "paranoia" I had about the Patriot Act.

I do, and encourage people to spend their time reading it instead of posting mindless objections to it on line.

[billvon 2,998]

>doesn't care that we will pay for every non citizen that is here or can get
>to the US for medical treatment . . .

You just admitted we already do that. Hint - when you go on a rant, it's best to not contradict yourself before the end of the rant.

>doesn't care that the government will dictate the type of insurance or
>treatment you will or will not get.

The latest right wing lie. Essential in any good rant.

>NOBODY in this country is denied medical treatment right now so what is
>the big rush?

Doctors and hospitals are going bankrupt. How many doctors would you be OK with losing their jobs while republicans stall and obstruct? How many hospitals are you OK giving up? Once you have that number we can figure out how much of a rush there should be.

> the big rush is that Obama knows that when his plan is looked at closely
> people will know that it is a piece of shit and won't get passed, so he
> needs to get the votes before it is read.

In a month or so, this will morph into "it's been taking so long because everyone knows it's a piece of shit." And that will provide a great starting place for the next rant.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Nothing wrong with a president that is at least honest. I said it too in several posts - Stand Aside, we have some changes to make.

We put up with 8 years of bullshit lying crap, wars, cheating, torture and economic policies that spelled disaster with GWB

so yes, stand aside, while we fix a few things.

So then you think he really likes Bud Light?!

They could not report that he wanted a 40 oz. Colt 45 or Schlitz

[Ion01 2]

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Doctors and hospitals are going bankrupt.

Proof?!?!
The majory losses are do to the fact that the government is already involved and forces them to provided care for illegals and such along with plenty of other costly government regulation they have to comply with.