"Quit making things up." -- Sarah Palin

[SpeedRacer 1]

Should we ban the Republicans and the Democrats from this?

It seems that at least some of the Rep & Dems are just using healthcare as a political football.

One side just wants to do whatever Obama says, and the other one just wants to oppose ANYTHING Obama says.

So kick out both parties, and let's figure out how to do this right.

Speed Racer
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[billvon 2,991]

> I guess you missed the part where I said “I don't think that the father need to yell”

Nope, I saw that. But you can't judge him, right? You can only judge Democrats.

[rickjump1 0]

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Should we ban the Republicans and the Democrats from this?

It seems that at least some of the Rep & Dems are just using healthcare as a political football.

One side just wants to do whatever Obama says, and the other one just wants to oppose ANYTHING Obama says.

So kick out both parties, and let's figure out how to do this right.

The mothers, grandmothers, fathers, grandfathers, butchers, bakers, candle stick makers are being branded as "unAmerican" because they question their government. These are the voices of the silent majority who want answers.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[billvon 2,991]

>The mothers, grandmothers, fathers, grandfathers, butchers, bakers, candle
>stick makers are being branded as "unAmerican" because they question their
>government.

Funny how only a few short years ago the right wing was branding anyone who spoke against the Iraq was as "unamerican" - and it turned out they were the majority, too.

But somehow I think that no lessons will be learned there.

[BrendaHupp 0]

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Nope, I saw that. But you can't judge him, right? You can only judge Democrats.

What his reasons for yelling were are subjective, what the congressman said is not. I see you didn't quote where I said that any of the protest (AKA yelling) in meetings was wrong. I guess that is because it does not support your democrat bashing theory. Keep avoiding the question Bill. YOU are the one throwing out the democrat/republican cards.

[quade 4]

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The mothers, grandmothers, fathers, grandfathers, butchers, bakers, candle stick makers are being branded as "unAmerican" because they question their government. These are the voices of the silent majority who want answers.

No, they're not. Not by any reasonable person. Certainly not by Omaba or Pelosi no matter what you're hearing from the right wing talking heads.

What Pelosi specifically wrote in the op ed published yesterday was in reference to the organizers and the insurance company lobbying groups that are advocating the tactics of disruption of town hall meetings in an effort to shout down any conversation.

Did you actually read the op ed, or are you simply repeating what you heard some talking head say about it?

The most of the people you are talking about, the average Jane and Joe that pissed off, are pawns being used by insurance companies and whipped into a frothy frenzy by the right wing talking heads. They need to step away from the likes of Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rickjump1 0]

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>The mothers, grandmothers, fathers, grandfathers, butchers, bakers, candle
>stick makers are being branded as "unAmerican" because they question their
>government.

Funny how only a few short years ago the right wing was branding anyone who spoke against the Iraq was as "unamerican" - and it turned out they were the majority, too.

But somehow I think that no lessons will be learned there.

The Iraq War certainly effected those who went and came home crippled or dead. Vietnam was even bigger, but it did not effect everyone.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rickjump1 0]

Of course when I say "everyone", I don't include our elected officials. They have their own health care.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rickjump1 0]

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The mothers, grandmothers, fathers, grandfathers, butchers, bakers, candle stick makers are being branded as "unAmerican" because they question their government. These are the voices of the silent majority who want answers.

No, they're not. Not by any reasonable person. Certainly not by Omaba or Pelosi no matter what you're hearing from the right wing talking heads.

What Pelosi specifically wrote in the op ed published yesterday was in reference to the organizers and the insurance company lobbying groups that are advocating the tactics of disruption of town hall meetings in an effort to shout down any conversation.

Did you actually read the op ed, or are you simply repeating what you heard some talking head say about it?

The most of the people you are talking about, the average Jane and Joe that pissed off are pawns being used by insurance companies and whipped into a frothy frenzy by the right wing talking heads.

OK, why can't your local senator or congressman even answer questions. Why do they avoid questions like Senator Max Baucus of Montana. He is one of the architects of BHO's plan, but hides from his own constituents.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[quade 4]

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OK, why can't your local senator or congressman even answer questions.

Easy. They're not even being given the chance. As soon as a few words get out of their mouths they're being drowned out by the screaming of the people disrupting the meeting.

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Why do they avoid questions like Senator Max Baucus of Montana. He is one of the architects of BHO's plan, but hides from his own constituents.

Because there have been threats of violence. That's another tactic being used. Make threats and security just shuts down the meetings before they even have a chance to start.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rickjump1 0]

Wrong. Every letter they respond to is canned with no substance. The trouble with politicians on both sides of the plate, they have gotten away with voters playing dead until healthcare became an issue (bigger than guns). This is the awakening they have dreaded to think about. Now, they cannot deal with it.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kallend 2,027]

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CARS.GOV.........Be afraid....forever!!!

Fact checking doesn't seem to be your strong point.

Speaking of fact checking...how's the vaccine for that "gun epidemic" coming along?

Hows the search for a dictionary, so you can look up "metaphor", "hypocrisy", "straw man" and "EPIDEMIC".

You get what you give - since you take other's metaphors as fact, you get the same treatment.

Where's the Koch postulate proofs and how is the work on the vaccine coming, or was your post admitting that your metaphor was a hypocritical attempt at a strawman?

You just dig deeper and deeper.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Wrong. Every letter they respond to is canned with no substance. The trouble with politicians on both sides of the plate, they have gotten away with voters playing dead until healthcare became an issue (bigger than guns). This is the awakening they have dreaded to think about. Now, they cannot deal with it.

But this is not an awakening by any definition. There are plenty of reasons for both the Democrats and the Republicans to dislike this bill. In the end it will be another win for the pharmaceutical companies and insurers. One of the main reasons we'll all lose is because the debate is being defined by loud and aggressive mob that uses lies, fear and hyperbole to get us to argue about things that aren't in any way actually involved in the bill. We keep playing on this sensationalism and fear mongering and the actual content of the legislation is denied any honest debate.
This is no awakening, it's a fucking dark age.

[billvon 2,991]

> We keep playing on this sensationalism and fear mongering and
>the actual content of the legislation is denied any honest debate.

Excellent point. It's not a great bill and there are a LOT of things that could be improved on. But until all the lies and deceptions start, that won't happen.

[TrophyHusband 0]

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>the problem is that obama isn't proposing a solution.

Well, then, what's everyone complaining about?

further expansion of government that will, in all likelyhood make things worse.

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> the major issue with healthcare is that it is too expensive. the first thing
>obama needs to do is identify exactly where all of our healthcare dollars are
>going, and he hasn't done that yet . . .

So asking people (voluntarily) to identify sources of misinformation is an egregious violation of free speech and right to privacy by the administration, but going into your (and everyone's) health records to determine costs would be just fine? I'd have to disagree there.

No problems with getting a general picture of healthcare costs (which have been done) but we cannot, and should not, invade people's privacy to get exact numbers.

you and i both know that we don't need to invade people's privacy to find out where all of our money is going.

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> this is a complex issue and will be felt by everyone.

I agree. Your point on tort reform is an important one, I think, and needs more discussion - since malpractice suits (and protections against them) are becoming one of the leading costs in healthcare.

we are in agreement here, but obama has said that he does not support tort reform. the biggest problem i have with this bill is that it is ignoring one of the leading costs of healthcare.

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However, that is often impossible. The GOP is sending "grassroots plants" to spread lies about the program in hopes of sinking it. The "death board" that wants to kill babies and old people is just the latest in the series of "distort distract deceive" tactics used to try to sink this bill before people can read it.

i also agree with you that the right is taking things too far with the death panel stuff, but people do realize that the government will not be able to sustain any kind of public option without either rationing care, raising taxes, or both. people fear (rightly or wrongly) that one way of rationing care will be based on age.

is the gop putting plants out to spread lies? i would hope not, but they are politicians so it could happen, although even without that, there is genuine grass roots opposition to this bill. people see it as further expansion of the government into our lives and they see that as a bad thing. federal government is ar better suited to play referee as opposed to becoming one of the players.

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I hope we can get beyond that and talk about it, because it is important.

me too. this is a very important issue and people such as glen "the sky is falling" beck and sarah "death panel" palin aren't helping advance the debate. nor are nancy pelosi and steny hoyer.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[TrophyHusband 0]

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Of course, one problem with tort reform is that medical malpractice does, in fact, exist. And while each of us thinks we're singularly unlikely to sue, that's mainly because we think doctors are singularly unlikely to make mistakes.

Is each of the people here who's against higher prices in medicine willing to take the chance that their doctor will be wrong in a diagnosis, or will miss a drug interaction (happens all the time)? Especially since we're all taking more and more drugs these days.

I'm all for tort reform. But I'm also all for people reform, because the two have to go together. Doctors are no more infallible than anyone else, but neither should shoddy workmanship get a pass.

Wendy P.

i agree with you that shoddy workmanship shouldn't get a pass. as with any other profession, there are bad doctors, there are lazy doctors, there are even a few stupid doctors. you are right that malpractice does occur, but suing doctors willy nilly is a huge and costly problem and it needs to be addressed. i certainly don't think doctors should be immune to being sued, but there needs to be some controls put in place so we can bring the cost down.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[marks2065 0]

i agree with you that shoddy workmanship shouldn't get a pass. as with any other profession, there are bad doctors, there are lazy doctors, there are even a few stupid doctors. you are right that malpractice does occur, but suing doctors willy nilly is a huge and costly problem and it needs to be addressed. i certainly don't think doctors should be immune to being sued, but there needs to be some controls put in place so we can bring the cost down.

[rickjump1 0]

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Wrong. Every letter they respond to is canned with no substance. The trouble with politicians on both sides of the plate, they have gotten away with voters playing dead until healthcare became an issue (bigger than guns). This is the awakening they have dreaded to think about. Now, they cannot deal with it.

But this is not an awakening by any definition. There are plenty of reasons for both the Democrats and the Republicans to dislike this bill. In the end it will be another win for the pharmaceutical companies and insurers. One of the main reasons we'll all lose is because the debate is being defined by loud and aggressive mob that uses lies, fear and hyperbole to get us to argue about things that aren't in any way actually involved in the bill. We keep playing on this sensationalism and fear mongering and the actual content of the legislation is denied any honest debate.
This is no awakening, it's a fucking dark age.

Get used to it. You can't blame everything on "lies, fear and hyperbole. When honest citizens ask questions and receive bullshit answers from the very senator they have continued to elect, they have a right to know even if it's through the mail. Isn't it time for Emperor BHO to address the nation and go over the specifics line by line or is he afraid?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[quade 4]

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Isn't it time for Emperor BHO to address the nation and go over the specifics line by line or is he afraid?

You seem to be confused about how legislation is passed.

First and foremost, it's not the President that drafts bills and it's certainly not his job to sit around for days on end reading them aloud to people and explaining each point line by line.

Where did you ever get this idea?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,991]

> Isn't it time for Emperor BHO to address the nation and go over
> the specifics line by line or is he afraid?

Isn't it time for the detractors of the bill to propose their own plan - or are they incapable of doing anything constructive?

[mnealtx 0]

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Isn't it time for Emperor BHO to address the nation and go over the specifics line by line or is he afraid?

You seem to be confused about how legislation is passed.

First and foremost, it's not the President that drafts bills and it's certainly not his job to sit around for days on end reading them aloud to people and explaining each point line by line.

Where did you ever get this idea?

Probably from the last 8 years of y'all screaming about "Bush did this" "Bush did that"...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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Isn't it time for Emperor BHO to address the nation and go over the specifics line by line or is he afraid?

You seem to be confused about how legislation is passed.
First and foremost, it's not the President that drafts bills and it's certainly not his job to sit around for days on end reading them aloud to people and explaining each point line by line.
Where did you ever get this idea?

Probably from the last 8 years of y'all screaming about "Bush did this" "Bush did that"...

I think you can go back to pretty much any post I've made about the time period of the 43rd Administration and you'll find I give proper attribution to the sources of evil.

I don't think you'll find many (hopefully no) cases where the legislature was doing something and I blamed GWB for it. What the 43rd Administration did in executing it, yeah, they get full blame for that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[idrankwhat 0]

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Get used to it.

Why? Why in the world would anyone desire to be stupid?

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You can't blame everything on "lies, fear and hyperbole. When honest citizens ask questions and receive bullshit answers from the very senator they have continued to elect, they have a right to know even if it's through the mail.

You're absolutely right. When "HONEST" citizens with "HONEST" questions go to town hall meetings or write letters to their Congressman they should expect an "HONEST" response from their Congresscritter. Unfortunately there are too many dishonest or mislead people who are demanding all of your representative's resources. Their instructions are to disrupt the discussion, rattle the Congressman and disallow any form of honest discussion. Basically they are carrying the talk radio format of "debate" into a live venue. Monopolize the time, rattle your opponent, shout over them so they can't answer a question and then leave after the cameras and mics are turned off.

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Isn't it time for Emperor BHO to address the nation and go over the specifics line by line or is he afraid?

He apparently is too busy trying to debunk the bullshit nonsense that's dominating the debate. I heard him doing it again this morning for all the old folks who are being told that he's out to kill them.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Maybe he should quit wearing his "Kill Whitey" t-shirt

[idrankwhat 0]

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Maybe he should quit wearing his "Kill Whitey" t-shirt

Got a source for that one?