quade 4 #1 August 13, 2009 There is almost nothing more powerful than a good propaganda, uh, Public Relations department. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/12/health.industry.whistleblower/index.htmlquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #2 August 13, 2009 QuoteThere is almost nothing more powerful than a good propaganda, uh, Public Relations department. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/12/health.industry.whistleblower/index.html wow. No one here could have imagined such a thing. Of course, they're not the only fiddle players in this game. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 August 13, 2009 QuoteQuoteThere is almost nothing more powerful than a good propaganda, uh, Public Relations department. http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/12/health.industry.whistleblower/index.html wow. No one here could have imagined such a thing. Of course, they're not the only fiddle players in this game. Yes, but since the side telling the truth is always at somewhat of a disadvantage, the healthcare/insurance/right wing talking heads, do have it quite a bit easier.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #4 August 13, 2009 QuoteThe right-wingers and their corporate sponsors are protecting a medieval and violent health care system that kills more Americans each year than all the Americans who have died in the war on terror since 2001, including the 3,000 victims of 9/11, and the 5,000-plus U.S. service members who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Every two months, the American health care industry is party to the slaughter of more Americans than al-Qaida managed to kill. Osama bin Laden must look at the Tea Baggers, FreedomWorks, health-industry billionaires like Rick Scott and the rest, and think, "If only I could kill as many Americans as they do! These guys are pros!" They need to answer for this -- they need to explain why they are trying to protect a system that kills 22,000 Americans per year -- a figure based on a landmark report by the prestigious Institute of Medicine. In fact, 22,000 is a conservative figure -- one of the authors of that report thinks the real figure in 2006 alone was 27,000 Americans killed from our health care system, perhaps as high as 40,000. But I'll stick to the conservative casualty number of 22,000, which is horrific enough. If you believe in making health care available to every American, there's no reason to be skittish about talking about it on these terms. The right wing sure as hell isn't: in fact, its whole argument against health care reform is a hypothetical, future-tense dystopia of Americans murdered by their government, a fiction invented by hired marketing whizzes. It's winning the "debate" based on a lie that hasn't even happened, whereas in this present-tense reality we all inhabit now, one American dies every 24 minutes because of this health care system. It's time we protect ourselves and those we love, and that means stopping this slaughterhouse and saving Americans. http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/141941/if_right-wingers_got_their_way%2C_22%2C000_americans_will_continue_to_be_killed_by_lack_of_health_care_each_year/stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #5 August 13, 2009 Do you ever have a reponse that is your own and not from a website? If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #6 August 13, 2009 Paul: Goddamned right. Note - it is no longer about healthcare reform. It's now being mentioned by the POTUS as health insurance reform. To pass it, the insurance industry is being absolutely villainized. Thisnk about the new proposal that an insurance company must provide insurance to anyone who wants it without adjusting for illness. The same system New Hampshire did away with because people would find out, "hmm. I blew out my knee. I'll buy insurance to get it fixed." Guess what this did to rates. I'll put it this way - the government reform of "health insurance" is being accomplished by villainizing the health insurance industry. And it's bullshit. It's why it isn't pointed out how the government will do anything cheaper or better. It's all about how bad and evil the insurance companies are. They are bad, evil. Horrible. They caused it. Possessed of Satan some non-denominational/secular idea of supernatural misanthrope and must be destroyed. Now you are posting that the insurance companies are not gonna go down without swinging. Here I thought that the American way was to not stand idly by while the government trods. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #7 August 13, 2009 QuotePaul: Goddamned right. Note - it is no longer about healthcare reform. It's now being mentioned by the POTUS as health insurance reform. To pass it, the insurance industry is being absolutely villainized. CIGNA damn well should be villainized. I had to put up with them for 8 years - the bastards.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #8 August 13, 2009 Quote Yes, but since the side telling the truth is always at somewhat of a disadvantage, the healthcare/insurance/right wing talking heads, do have it quite a bit easier. The truth is always easier to promote. The problem, in this case for you, is that you're ignoring the fiddle playing by your side, the one you imply is telling the truth. The Obama Administration is spinning a lot of bullshit to try to get this done. The only reason you view them more positively than the liars from the other groups is that you want the objective achieved as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #9 August 13, 2009 Quote Think about the new proposal that an insurance company must provide insurance to anyone who wants it without adjusting for illness. The same system New Hampshire did away with because people would find out, "hmm. I blew out my knee. I'll buy insurance to get it fixed." Guess what this did to rates. Well, not really different from insurance plans covering crap like chiropractors and homeopathy, because the State of California decided that alternative medicine should also be covered. So you and me already paying more in their premiums for someone to wasting the medical system twice - first by trying to cure cancer by drinking urine, and second spending months in hospital trying to fight it once it's too late.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #10 August 13, 2009 >The same system New Hampshire did away with because people would find >out, "hmm. I blew out my knee. I'll buy insurance to get it fixed." Guess >what this did to rates. The alternative is the plan espoused by John Rich, where people would think "hmm, I blew out my knee. I'll go to the ER and just not pay." Guess what that does to hospitals. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. An insurance exchange, where people can go and choose one of many plans - all with common characteristics, such as no pre-existing condition limitations - is a pretty good compromise. Every company in the exchange knows they may get the "wait until the last minute" types, and every company knows that they get 'first crack' at people. They will adjust their rates accordingly. Will people want crap insurance, that just fixes their knee but makes them wait six years for it? Then get the cheap crap insurance. The company will get at least six years of payment from the guy, so there may be a lot of plans like that. Do they want the gold plated plan that will get them seen tomorrow? Then they pay for it. They may have to pay a LOT, because the companies offering the gold plated plan may figure they will pay into it only for as long as they need to get their knee fixed. But again, their choice, their money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #11 August 13, 2009 QuoteQuote Think about the new proposal that an insurance company must provide insurance to anyone who wants it without adjusting for illness. The same system New Hampshire did away with because people would find out, "hmm. I blew out my knee. I'll buy insurance to get it fixed." Guess what this did to rates. Well, not really different from insurance plans covering crap like chiropractors and homeopathy, because the State of California decided that alternative medicine should also be covered. So you and me already paying more in their premiums for someone to wasting the medical system twice - first by trying to cure cancer by drinking urine, and second spending months in hospital trying to fight it once it's too late. I take issue with part of your post here. I have had excellant experiences with Chiropractors. It was a chiropractor that fixed me when the doctors wanted to cut me. I do not believe that they are fairly lumped into your "Alternative Medicine" definition.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #12 August 13, 2009 Quote I take issue with part of your post here. I have had excellant experiences with Chiropractors. It was a chiropractor that fixed me when the doctors wanted to cut me. I do not believe that they are fairly lumped into your "Alternative Medicine" definition. So far chiropractic has no scientific evidence for anything except back pain treatment (which is obvious). Testimonials like yours are useless to evaluate the effectiveness of medicine or practice. Any urine therapy follower would gladly share with you his own story how he cured himself or his brother from brain cancer, AIDS or herpes by drinking his urine. That's why there are double blind tests.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #13 August 13, 2009 QuoteQuote I take issue with part of your post here. I have had excellant experiences with Chiropractors. It was a chiropractor that fixed me when the doctors wanted to cut me. I do not believe that they are fairly lumped into your "Alternative Medicine" definition. So far chiropractic has no scientific evidence for anything except back pain treatment (which is obvious). Testimonials like yours are useless to evaluate the effectiveness of medicine or practice. Any urine therapy follower would gladly share with you his own story how he cured himself or his brother from brain cancer, AIDS or herpes by drinking his urine. That's why there are double blind tests. Well - you could look at the x-rays of my back and shoulder and knees and compare those to the ones taken when I was in the "medical" doctors office, who wanted to cut me open to fix them and, as I have done, see the difference.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #14 August 13, 2009 Quote Well - you could look at the x-rays of my back and shoulder and knees and compare those to the ones taken when I was in the "medical" doctors office, who wanted to cut me open to fix them and, as I have done, see the difference. And it won't prove anything. You know, there are individuals who cannot get infected with HIV (defined by various sources from 0.25% to 1% of population). If you studied one of those people, you would make a "valid" conclusion that AIDS in fact does not exist, because this person is immune to it. This conclusion would be valid for any of those persons, but obviously not applicable to others. It is quite useless to estimate the effectiveness of a drug or practice on a single person.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #15 August 13, 2009 QuoteQuote Well - you could look at the x-rays of my back and shoulder and knees and compare those to the ones taken when I was in the "medical" doctors office, who wanted to cut me open to fix them and, as I have done, see the difference. And it won't prove anything. You know, there are individuals who cannot get infected with HIV (defined by various sources from 0.25% to 1% of population). If you studied one of those people, you would make a "valid" conclusion that AIDS in fact does not exist, because this person is immune to it. This conclusion would be valid for any of those persons, but obviously not applicable to others. It is quite useless to estimate the effectiveness of a drug or practice on a single person. Careful; if you keep bothering him with facts he'll start calling you "ascenine" (sic) and "rediculous" (sic).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #16 August 13, 2009 No sir quade, they are playing Obama and congress like a fiddle."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #17 August 13, 2009 >No sir quade, they are playing Obama and congress like a fiddle. Based purely on the number of complete falsehoods they've gotten some members of the public to accept, I'd have to go with the author of the article. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #18 August 13, 2009 QuoteNo sir quade, they are playing Obama and congress like a fiddle. So by that you mean you think the Healthcare and Insurance companies are FOR healthcare reform and are pushing FOR it? Oh this I gotta hear.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #19 August 13, 2009 QuoteQuoteNo sir quade, they are playing Obama and congress like a fiddle. So by that you mean you think the Healthcare and Insurance companies are FOR healthcare reform and are pushing FOR it? Oh this I gotta hear. read the news dude. They have given Obama 150M to support his plan, today. You are right about the fiddle playing. I will give you that"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #20 August 13, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteNo sir quade, they are playing Obama and congress like a fiddle. So by that you mean you think the Healthcare and Insurance companies are FOR healthcare reform and are pushing FOR it? Oh this I gotta hear. read the news dude. They have given Obama 150M to support his plan, today. You are right about the fiddle playing. I will give you that Not seeing it on FoxNews nor Drudge. Care to link it?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #21 August 14, 2009 Quote CIGNA damn well should be villainized. I had to put up with them for 8 years - the bastards. I seriously doubt that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #22 August 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteNo sir quade, they are playing Obama and congress like a fiddle. So by that you mean you think the Healthcare and Insurance companies are FOR healthcare reform and are pushing FOR it? Oh this I gotta hear. My bad It is the drug industry with the 150M in support Regardless, watch this play out. The issurance industry only wants to survive this crap. Wanna bet if they have plans whether or not this piece of shit bill passes or not?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #23 August 14, 2009 QuoteCIGNA damn well should be villainized. I had to put up with them for 8 years - the bastards. I'm sure there was nothing preventing you from being a private patient.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #24 August 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteCIGNA damn well should be villainized. I had to put up with them for 8 years - the bastards. I'm sure there was nothing preventing you from being a private patient. What does that have to do with the misdeeds of an INSURER who already has my premiums?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #25 August 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteCIGNA damn well should be villainized. I had to put up with them for 8 years - the bastards. I'm sure there was nothing preventing you from being a private patient. What does that have to do with the misdeeds of an INSURER who already has my premiums? If you were able to pay 8 years of premiums at once, then sucks to be you for not researching your insurer. If not, then it sucks to be you for not changing insurers.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
