Obama Kills the Health Care Bill

[TankBuster 0]

This is one sweet piece of buffoonery. Would love to have been there when Axlerod and Emanuel beat the shit out of him for this.


http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/11/obamacare-the-post-office-of-health-care-plans/

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[rickjump1 0]

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This is one sweet piece of buffoonery. Would love to have been there when Axlerod and Emanuel beat the shit out of him for this.


http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/11/obamacare-the-post-office-of-health-care-plans/

The emperor has been winging it all along; no teleprompter; pure vaudeville.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Gawain 0]

Couldn't have written it better...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[riddler 0]

The funniest story in the past week has been watching the GOPers suddenly become fans of the Post Office

*Limbaugh voice*
You can't say things like that about our Great American Postal System. Why, every one of them is a hero, goddammit! Brave souls that deliver your mail, my mail, in the snow and the rain, and the heat and the gloom of night. Heros! All of them!

Cracks me up.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[warpedskydiver 0]

My mailman is a hero.

He was decorated for his actions at the battle of Khe Sahn.

Two bronzes with a V and a Silver.

I guess he was not good at duck and cover.

The funniest part is he was harassed at a section 8 housing area on the last day of the month.

I guess they should not have touched him.

The postal inspectors were laughing pretty hard...

[riddler 0]

Hey, I'm with you. My mom is a hero - carried mail for 30 years and raised my brother and I as a single mom. I was the first in my family to get a four-year degree, and my brother now has a PhD - all because of my mother. Tough job she had.

It's just funny to see a political organization with a history of battering and abusing the Post Office now jump on their side, because their political opponent questioned their abilities in a discussion about something that had nothing to do with the subject. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[rushmc 23]

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Hey, I'm with you. My mom is a hero - carried mail for 30 years and raised my brother and I as a single mom. I was the first in my family to get a four-year degree, and my brother now has a PhD - all because of my mother. Tough job she had.

It's just funny to see a political organization with a history of battering and abusing the Post Office now jump on their side, because their political opponent questioned their abilities in a discussion about something that had nothing to do with the subject. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

that is what you see them doing??

Interesting perspective but I cant say as I have seen or heard that. On either side of your point

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

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Hey, I'm with you. My mom is a hero - carried mail for 30 years and raised my brother and I as a single mom. I was the first in my family to get a four-year degree, and my brother now has a PhD - all because of my mother. Tough job she had.

It's just funny to see a political organization with a history of battering and abusing the Post Office now jump on their side, because their political opponent questioned their abilities in a discussion about something that had nothing to do with the subject. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

that is what you see them doing??

Interesting perspective but I cant say as I have seen or heard that. On either side of your point

Like
THIS

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Hey, I'm with you. My mom is a hero - carried mail for 30 years and raised my brother and I as a single mom. I was the first in my family to get a four-year degree, and my brother now has a PhD - all because of my mother. Tough job she had.

It's just funny to see a political organization with a history of battering and abusing the Post Office now jump on their side, because their political opponent questioned their abilities in a discussion about something that had nothing to do with the subject. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

that is what you see them doing??

Interesting perspective but I cant say as I have seen or heard that. On either side of your point

Like
THIS

Well there you go then
I stand corrected

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[TankBuster 0]

The point isn't that he's disparaging the USPS, but that he's disparaging it while trying to sell an new massive government program. The guy's a fuckin idiot.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[StreetScooby 5]

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The point isn't that he's disparaging the USPS, but that he's disparaging it while trying to sell an new massive government program. The guy's a fuckin idiot.

+1

We are all engines of karma

[rivetgeek 0]

His analogy is correct. Fedex and UPS exist as a faster and more affordable way to send items. Private health care will still exist just like it still exists in the UK. It will likely be more expensive than the government plan, but will offer faster service. There is ZERO reason (aside from greedy corporations taking advantage of public fear) they would have to raise their rates as many of the people who will be on the gov health care couldn't get private insurance anyway.

And yes the postal service IS losing money. Why you ask? One word: Email. Nobody writes letters or sends postcards anymore; why would they? The post office relied on having planes and trucks jammed packed with mail to make it cost effective.

People will ALWAYS get sick. People will ALWAYS get hurt. Don't listen to the FUD. If you can afford/qualify for private insurance, this wont hurt you a bit. If you can't, now having a heart attack wont bankrupt you.

~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~

[pirana 0]

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There is ZERO reason (aside from greedy corporations taking advantage of public fear) they would have to raise their rates as many of the people who will be on the gov health care couldn't get private insurance anyway.

But in a system with guaranteed issue coverage, nobody can be denied. So overall utilization will definitely be up, and rates will either need to be subsidized by the money the govt saves by getting people off their guarantee issue programs, or raised to make up the diffenence.

There is also a phenomenon I call a utilization bubble that occurs any time a population, (even just a single mid-size employer group) gets initial access or increased access. All those non-critical nagging injuries and illnesses suddenly get treated. That is going to be no small item to take into account in financing our nationwide foray into universal coverage.

These are not reasons to not do it, but they need to be part of the plan.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[downwardspiral 0]

Yup email has been around for 30 years. Is it possible that upper management in USPS could have foreseen this? Of course now that it's smacked them square in the face they see it and that is apparent by their major marketing program for flat rate shipping.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[TomAiello 26]

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...many of the people who will be on the gov health care couldn't get private insurance anyway.

How "many" ?

What percentage of people will leave a (paid) private plan for a free public plan?

I don't think that anyone (not even the President) can answer that question, or foresee the consequences. We can all speculate, but that's about all it is--speculation.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[billvon 2,998]

>The point isn't that he's disparaging the USPS, but that he's disparaging it
>while trying to sell an new massive government program. The guy's a fuckin
>idiot.

Of course, if it was a GOPer doing it, he'd be a hero for, say, going after "wasteful military spending" while honoring the military.

There are certain people on here who are absolutely reliable in that sense. A congressman could discover a cure for cancer; they'd accuse him of witholding it during testing to kill babies if he had a D after his name. Another could get caught screwing an underage male intern; they'd defend him (or at the very least try a CDIF) as long as he had an R after his name.

[TankBuster 0]

Bill, if you mean to attack me for that, you're wrong.

But you miss the point. Obama was supposed to be "the man" because he was so smart and politically savvy. His mismanagement, mis-statements, and mis-information during this whole debate prove that he's anything but.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[LyraM45 0]

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Bill, if you mean to attack me for that, you're wrong.

But you miss the point. Obama was supposed to be "the man" because he was so smart and politically savvy. His mismanagement, mis-statements, and mis-information during this whole debate prove that he's anything but.

If you judge all of that just by debate of one issue, then you must think Bush is a friggin MAJOR idiot since he has proved over and over and over again on many many issues that he mismanaged, mis-stated, and was mis-informed on a LOT of things.

I'm just sayin' with that reasoning.........

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[billvon 2,998]

> Obama was supposed to be "the man" . . .

?? "Obama the Messiah" was a creation of the right wing. Most people who voted for him just thought he was a better choice than McCain.

>His mismanagement, mis-statements, and mis-information during
>this whole debate prove that he's anything but.

You mean like the "death board?" And the "mandatory government health care" thing? Pretty much everyone who has accused the authors of the various bills of "misinformation" have themselves been woefully misinformed. Indeed, right wingers are doing everything they can to ensure no one understands the bill being debated.

[rushmc 23]

Bush did? Specifics please.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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> Obama was supposed to be "the man" . . .

?? "Obama the Messiah" was a creation of the right wing. Most people who voted for him just thought he was a better choice than McCain.

>His mismanagement, mis-statements, and mis-information during
>this whole debate prove that he's anything but.

You mean like the "death board?" And the "mandatory government health care" thing? Pretty much everyone who has accused the authors of the various bills of "misinformation" have themselves been woefully misinformed. Indeed, right wingers are doing everything they can to ensure no one understands the bill being debated.

I understand the bill bill, and it sucks

But is it quite the little turtle shell you withdraw into when "yo man" is "questioned! Yes, questioned, not attacked. But you and your fellow Obamaites cant have that can you? Since you voted for him and all. That makes him perfect!

Well, I stated before and it is time for the reminder. What the media creates, it can destroy.

Wait for the destruction, it is coming cause they will not go "down" with him. They are much to petty to do that

As for me, I love watching you attack and label (or try to at least) those that question his (insert adj here) mind.

Am I correct? In less than 5 months we will know, won't we

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rivetgeek 0]

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> Obama was supposed to be "the man" . . .

?? "Obama the Messiah" was a creation of the right wing. Most people who voted for him just thought he was a better choice than McCain.

>His mismanagement, mis-statements, and mis-information during
>this whole debate prove that he's anything but.

You mean like the "death board?" And the "mandatory government health care" thing? Pretty much everyone who has accused the authors of the various bills of "misinformation" have themselves been woefully misinformed. Indeed, right wingers are doing everything they can to ensure no one understands the bill being debated.

I understand the bill bill, and it sucks

But is it quite the little turtle shell you withdraw into when "yo man" is "questioned! Yes, questioned, not attacked. But you and your fellow Obamaites cant have that can you? Since you voted for him and all. That makes him perfect!

Well, I stated before and it is time for the reminder. What the media creates, it can destroy.

Wait for the destruction, it is coming cause they will not go "down" with him. They are much to petty to do that

As for me, I love watching you attack and label (or try to at least) those that question his (insert adj here) mind.

Am I correct? In less than 5 months we will know, won't we

Bill already stated it the best possible way. "Obama the Messiah" was created by sour grape eating Republicans. I dont think any Democrat thinks he is perfect, but for fuck's sake at least he is TRYING to put forth something good.

Bush and Co never even tried, they spent 8 years starting and fighting pointless wars, trying to sell federally protected land to loggers, and giving huge tax cuts for the richest of the rich.

The Presidency is a hard job and complicated even more so by the lobbyists. Nobody has EVER been a perfect president. But I'd gladly vote for Obama again if he was running against fucking McCain and that retarded bimbo Palin.

~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~

[TankBuster 0]

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You mean like the "death board?" And the "mandatory government health care" thing?

Get your facts straight Bill! The correct term is "death panel."

Socialized medicine is what it is. Rationing care to the elderly results in the same thing. Most Americans don't want it. If the liberal clowns really wanted to cover more people they could have spent some of their spendulus on it, rather than the little field mice.

In a speech to the AFL CIO - in his OWN WORDS he wants a government takeover, single payer system. In his OWN WORDS he stated that small steps were involved.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[riddler 0]

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His analogy is correct. Fedex and UPS exist as a faster and more affordable way to send items.

Not to detract from the original thread, but just a few minor points. FedEx and UPS are faster and more reliable way to send letters and packages, there's no doubt. But not the most affordable. My work revolves around shipping with FedEx, and I know quite a bit about USPS and UPS shipping as well, the rates of the Post Office can rarely be beat. But customers know they have less of a chance of fast and reliable delivery.

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And yes the postal service IS losing money. Why you ask? One word: Email.

Again, I'm claiming expertise here because I grew up in a Postal family. It's about three or four words. It's the Internet combined with competition from UPS and FedEx combined with economic recession that's hurting the Post Office. In a recession, there are fewer advertisements by mail, which are a seizable chunk of all mail delivered. What you probably don't know is that they spent a FORTUNE upgrading their mail sorting and scanning equipment across the entire country. The Post Office is a big outfit - after the government and Walmart, they are the largest employer in the country (760,000 employees), so it makes sense to do that, but the cost had to be amortized over a very long time, and so they expected to take losses for several years.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[lawrocket 3]

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Bill already stated it the best possible way. "Obama the Messiah" was created by sour grape eating Republicans.

Yes. Much like the Palin is an Idiot was created by a bunch of liberals. Recall, Palin was an idiot while Obama was Ivy League genius. Of course, this was along the lines of Dubya is an idiot. Reagan is the amiable dunce. Limbaugh is a big fat idiot. Clinton, Gore, Obama, Clinton - geniuses.

Indeed, the entire left-wing line of thought seems to be, "The intelligent and educated will think the way we do. Thus, those who disagree are idiots. Those who are not idiots are evil." And those who support them are idiots or evil.

I myself watched the 2008 Dem Convention. According to what I heard, the last 8 years were the worst in history which was a shame considering the Eden that this country was on the morning of January 20, 2001. By evening, it had decayed to sheer horror, and only Obama could save us. (This compares to the GOP convention, where nothign was wrong, everything was the democrats' fault, and the world is out to get us.)

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I dont think any Democrat thinks he is perfect, but for fuck's sake at least he is TRYING to put forth something good.

Good for whom. This is a problem. What he is trying to put forward is NOT - I repeat NOT - objectively good. It is good for some. Bad for others. It is not "good for America" but is "a step forward in the creation of the future America that many people want, and many do not."

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Bush and Co never even tried, they spent 8 years starting and fighting pointless wars, trying to sell federally protected land to loggers, and giving huge tax cuts for the richest of the rich.

In other words, just like Clinton did (those sweetheart royalty-free oil and gas leases during his admin? Bosnia? What did we get out of that? And note - 9/11 was not exactly planned starting November, 2000. Finally, I seem to recall that in 1993, federal taxes were raised that created a top marginal rate of 39.6% and raising corporate incomes taxes to 35%. The economy grew somewhat during this period. Then it took off following the 1997 tax cuts (about .11% of the GDP) which mainly lowered capital gains, and unleashed loads of entrepenurial and venture capital activity). $8 billion in venture capital was invested in 1995. $28 billion in 1998. (Understanding this created a bubble - hmm. We haven't had one of those recently, now have we?)

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giving huge tax cuts for the richest of the rich.

It seems that the richest of the rich are the ones who see capital gains taxes. I saw that tax cut passed in 1997.

Enough of the rhetoric.

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The Presidency is a hard job and complicated even more so by the lobbyists.

Did this start with Obama?

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But I'd gladly vote for Obama again if he was running against fucking McCain and that retarded bimbo Palin.

That retarded bimbo Palin just kicked the living shit out of the unretarded Obama in this health care debate. With the simple "death panel" comment. Yes, it seems ridiculous. Guess what? It worked. And I am seeing our President conceding on some points. Not because he believes his ideas wrong but I can see that right now he is thinking, "Holy shit! I can be Clinton or I can be Carter."

Sun Tzu said that it is grave error to underestimate your opponent and overestimate your own position. Calling Palin and other like-minded people idiots is proving time and again to be error. And you lose whatever high ground you may have had. How else does one lose in a pretty filibuster proof senate?

My wife is hotter than your wife.