GeorgiaDon 362 #151 August 25, 2009 Quoteonce stabilized in the er check the papers1) once they are stabilized most of the cost has already been incurred, really no $$ left to save after that point. 2) WHAT papers? If I stopped you on the street right at this minute, would you have "papers" that could prove to me that you are a US citizen? Quote...if not a citizen send them home with a bill to their government. also any illegal in jail doesnt get out they get sent back to their home with a bill to their government. I know they wont pay but we could subtract from the debts we owe them.I don't think we have any debts to Mexico. I'm afraid your suggestion is not very useful in the real world. Got any other suggestions? Unfortunately, these problems really are complicated. I can't think of any easy answers. If you want to be able to check citizenship quickly and easily, you have to have something like a "national identity card" that everyone must carry at all times. But, that offends our sense of civil liberties and desire to keep our lives private from the government. What is more important to you? It's easy to say "check their papers", but not easy to do in practice without compromising other important things. It's easy to say "send them home with a bill" but that would be useless at best, dangerous if you are talking about criminals. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #152 August 25, 2009 Let's make sure we all understand this... We're going to pass a health care plan Written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, Passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, signed by a President that also hasn't read it and who smokes, With funding administered by a Treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, overseen by a Surgeon General who is obese, And financed by a country that's nearly broke. What could possibly go wrong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #153 August 25, 2009 QuoteWhat kind of sick liberal fascio-socio-communist are you?!? You probably don't want to read up on the IMF_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #154 August 25, 2009 QuoteUh, dearest, that wall was built to keep the peeps IN, not out.What's the difference when you're talking about feasibility? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #155 August 25, 2009 QuoteUh, dearest, that wall was built to keep the peeps IN, not out. Well, in the wall's perspective, I don't think it knows the difference. But, if I remember correctly in the eighties, some people still got over and around it._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #156 August 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteUh, dearest, that wall was built to keep the peeps IN, not out.What's the difference when you're talking about feasibility? Wendy P. Ooops. I read your post wrong. Disregard that.The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #157 August 25, 2009 everyone keeps coming up with excuses, why not give a couple things a try and see what happens? it couldn't be worse than what we have and maybe some will just go home because we are actually tryinmg to put an end to illegals being here. doing nothing deffinately is not the answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #158 August 25, 2009 Which particular things should we give a try to, and how? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #159 August 25, 2009 QuoteWhich particular things should we give a try to, and how? Wendy P. Quotehow about we start by letting imigration police deport illegals instead of telling them they can't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #160 August 25, 2009 Quote Let's make sure we all understand this... We're going to pass a health care plan Written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it, Passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, signed by a President that also hasn't read it and who smokes, With funding administered by a Treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, overseen by a Surgeon General who is obese, And financed by a country that's nearly broke. What could possibly go wrong? Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #161 August 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteUh, dearest, that wall was built to keep the peeps IN, not out. Well, in the wall's perspective, I don't think it knows the difference. Exactly, the Earth being an oblate spheroid and all.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #162 August 26, 2009 Quotewhy not give a couple things a try and see what happens?Sure. I'm just saying that simplistic knee-jerk solutions are unlikely to have the desired effect, and are likely to have unintended consequences such as American citizens being required to carry proof of citizenship, which seems to upset civil libertarian and privacy advocate types, or risk being denied needed services such as emergency medical care. What CAN be done? I'd suggest: 1) create economically realistic avenues for legal immigration so people have a viable alternative to sneaking across the border (I talk about this more somewhere else so I won't repeat the whole thing here.) 2) create an accurate, fast mechanism for employers to check the social security number of potential employees. Congress mandated this years ago, but never funded it properly, and so a half-assed system with an unacceptably high error rate is all that is in place. Last I heard, almost 5% of legitimate social security numbers were erroneously rejected as false, because of misspelled names in the database and similar clerical errors. If you are a citizen whose social security number is rejected, an employer could not legally hire you, and you could be arrested for using a false number. Because of the high error rate, many employers refuse to use the system to check applicants. Fix it, and use it. 3) Once (2) is up and running, fine the ass off any employer who knowingly or negligently hires illegals. Find the CEOs and sew up their assholes till crap comes out their eyes if need be. The last administration refused to do this, in fact prosecutions of companies fell almost to nothing, because like it or not illegal immigrants are great for some businesses. You can pay them squat, ignore workplace safety rules, demand 16 hour work days if you want, and they can't complain because they're illegal and if they complain they get deported. But Americans look the other way (while whining about all them illegals) because they love their cheap chicken. 4) if companies want to bring in labor from Mexico or elsewhere, make them pay for the visa costs and provide health insurance so the taxpayers don't end up subsidizing the companies profits by paying for the employees health care. Either that, or pay wages that allow the workers to pay for their own health related expenses, in which case Americans might actually be interested in taking those jobs. Of course, your chicken will cost a bit more. How's that for a start? Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #163 August 27, 2009 Before he kills us????? Here is another example of those who Obama surounds himselfhttp://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/07/26/ezekiel-emanuel-deny-coverage-to-elderly-and-disabled-for-the-greater-good.php Quote So, according to Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, health care advisor to President Obama, the elderly with dementia and the young who have neurological disorders should be sacrificed for the common good. I can tell you that as a mom to a four year old girl with severe speech apraxia that prevents her from being able to speak intelligibly, this scares the living hell out of me. If you have a child with autism, cerebral palsy, Downs syndrome, or any other neurological disorder or chromosomal defect that prevents him or her from participating in society in the manner Dr. Emanuel or the government thinks they should, that neurological care would not be guaranteed as basic and would, therefore, not be covered in a government takeover of health care. So, "Death Panel" is still a distortion? http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/deadly_doctors_180941.htm?&page=1 Quote Savings, he writes, will require changing how doctors think about their patients: Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, "as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others" (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008). Yes, that's what patients want their doctors to do. But Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their patients and consider social justice, such as whether the money could be better spent on somebody else I dont know about you heath reform supporters but having guys like this running is scare the hell out of me!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #164 August 27, 2009 Finally, some honesty QuoteMarkey: Medicare will take hit BY ROBERT MOORE • RobertMoore@coloradoan.com • August 27, 2009 Some people, including Medicare recipients, will have to give up some current benefits to truly reform the nation's health-care system, Rep. Betsy Markey told a gathering of constituents in Fort Collins on Wednesday. Markey has repeatedly said during the August congressional recess that Medicare spending needs to be reined in to help pay for reforming the broader health-care system. "There's going to be some people who are going to have to give up some things, honestly, for all of this to work," Markey said at a Congress on Your Corner event at CSU. "But we have to do this because we're Americans." About 275 people att-ended Wednesday's meetings, split into two groups. About 1,300 people have attended Markey's health-care meetings over the past eight days, and another 10,300 10,300 participated in a telephone town hall earlier this week, Markey spokesman Ben Marter said. The audience at Wednesday's gathering appeared largely supportive of Democratic reform plans, with a number of people arriving with signs prepared by Organizing for America, a spinoff of Barack Obama's presidential campaign. At her Colorado State University event Wednesday, Markey repeated many of the themes she's stressed throughout the August recess - she believes the health-care system needs a significant overhaul that focuses on reducing costs, but the proposal crafted by House Democratic leaders is too high. She stressed at both gatherings that the status quo wasn't an option. "I do think that our health- care spending is directly tied to the economic health of this country," the Fort Collins Democrat said. However, one of the nation's leading political analysts said it appears increasingly unlikely that the Democrats will be able to pass any sort of comprehensive reform this year. The president over-reached by trying to push through major initiatives on health care and climate change in the midst of an economic catastrophe, said Charlie Cook, publisher of the nonpartisan Cook Political Report. "The public trust in government to get this right may have been eroded enormously by what's happened in the last year" to the economy, Cook said Tuesday at a Denver health-care discussion organized by the American Association of Retired Persons. "Under the best of circumstances this would have been hard, but it's just a lot harder right now." The Obama administration has committed strategic and tactical blunders on health-care reform that make it difficult, if not impossible, to pass any reform plan this year, Cook said. "I think the mistakes they made weren't stupid mistakes, but just because they weren't stupid doesn't mean they weren't mistakes," he said. Cook said a key mistake was leaving the drafting of the specific plan to Congress. He said that amounted to "outsourcing domestic policy" to congressional leadership. "There are institutions that are hated more than Congress, but not many," Cook said. "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rivetgeek 0 #165 August 28, 2009 Quote So, "Death Panel" is still a distortion? http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/deadly_doctors_180941.htm?&page=1 Jesus on a motorbike. Stop quoting fucking tabloids as if they have any basis in reality. Let me guess, you believe Elvis is living in Des Moines and bigfoot goes through your garbage?~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #166 August 28, 2009 QuoteQuote So, "Death Panel" is still a distortion? http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/deadly_doctors_180941.htm?&page=1 So, he did not write that stuff? I can prove differently Jesus on a motorbike. Stop quoting fucking tabloids as if they have any basis in reality. Let me guess, you believe Elvis is living in Des Moines and bigfoot goes through your garbage?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #167 August 28, 2009 QuoteSo, he did not write that stuff? I can prove differently Then do it. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #168 August 28, 2009 QuoteQuoteSo, he did not write that stuff? I can prove differently Then do it. I already posted it in response to billvon in another thread - go find it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #169 August 28, 2009 I already proved that AGW is real, Obama supported healthcare will solve all our problems, and torture is wrong. In another thread, go find it. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #170 August 28, 2009 QuoteI already proved that AGW is real, Obama supported healthcare will solve all our problems, and torture is wrong. In another thread, go find it. If you can't motivate yourself enough to back-search through this thread, I'm certainly not going to re-type the post for you. If you want the info, you'll do the search and find it - if not, I don't give a fuck.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #171 August 28, 2009 Back searching this thread is fine. You said you posted it in another thread. You also provided no clue as to which thread, when the post was made, or anything else that would assist my search. Sorry, I don't feel like combing throufh all 22000 of your posts. "I already posted that in another thread" is a useless statement. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #172 August 28, 2009 QuoteBack searching this thread is fine. You said you posted it in another thread. You also provided no clue as to which thread, when the post was made, or anything else that would assist my search. Sorry, I don't feel like combing throufh all 22000 of your posts. "I already posted that in another thread" is a useless statement. Seeing as how searching my posts in SC for the word 'emanuel' brings up 9 hits, I'm sure it *was* useless for you if you couldn't manage that much of a search.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rivetgeek 0 #173 August 28, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote So, "Death Panel" is still a distortion? http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/deadly_doctors_180941.htm?&page=1 So, he did not write that stuff? I can prove differently Jesus on a motorbike. Stop quoting fucking tabloids as if they have any basis in reality. Let me guess, you believe Elvis is living in Des Moines and bigfoot goes through your garbage? First, off, the reply feature isn't that hard to use, I mean, come on. Secondly, I didn't even read the article as your source is a cheap tabloid that probably had an article on the next page on how angelina is kicking out brad because of his heroin addiction. If you want people to take you even a little seriously, find sources that arent pure bullshit. If you can't find legitimate sources to back up your claims, it's probably because your claims are total bullshit.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #174 August 28, 2009 Hey, you already did it for me. Thanks! Now care to post the results? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #175 August 28, 2009 The New York Post you call a tabloid??? It is liberal bible for christs sake And I really dont give a fuck if YOU take me seriously or not after a post like this!!But I enjoy the vitrol. Makes me know I am closer to some truth than you car to see "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
