Obama wants to kill vets!

[billvon 2,998]

From Michael Steele:

"If you want an example of bad public policy, just look at the situation with our veterans, when you have a manual out there telling our veterans, you know, stuff like "are you really of value to your community?", you know, encouraging them to commit suicide, I mean this is crazy coming from the government, and this is exactly what concerns people and puts them in fear of what the government control of health care will look like."

Just figured I'd give all the GOPers here a head start on the crazy.

[Greene 0]

Only see one crazy here!

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Well, admitting it is the first step towards a cure.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Greene 0]

Now, I see two crazy's.

Read the brochure!

[Greene 0]

It's NOT about "killing vets"

[chuckakers 425]

Bill, your thread title is wrong. No one is saying Obama wants to kill vets. Your title should read "Obama wants to cut VA spending to have more money for HIS priorities, and is willing to let the "least productive among us" go to have it."

It's getting tough to tell if it's 1984 in Washington or 1933.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[rickjump1 0]

The Emperor is going out of his way to piss off a lot of vets, and they are already speaking out. I doubt if he will be in any hurry to bring them home. The American Emperor is not too far from being the Roman Emperor.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[georgerussia 0]

As I read the topic subject I thought Obama wants to kill veterinarians :D

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[quade 4]

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As I read the topic subject I thought Obama wants to kill veterinarians :D

Oh holy shit! You mean Obama is going to also shove universal pet health care down our throats?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georgerussia 0]

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Oh holy shit! You mean Obama is going to also shove universal pet health care down our throats?

And universal pot health care too. Paid by confiscating any outrageous profits exceeding 5% allowance.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[lawrocket 3]

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As I read the topic subject I thought Obama wants to kill veterinarians :D

What about Cora??? [Frown]

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Bill, your thread title is wrong. No one is saying Obama wants to kill vets.

So you admit that breathtakingly stupid political spin is breathtakingly stupid. That's a good First Step.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

From Michael Steele:

"If you want an example of bad public policy, just look at the situation with our veterans, when you have a manual out there telling our veterans, you know, stuff like "are you really of value to your community?", you know, encouraging them to commit suicide, I mean this is crazy coming from the government, and this is exactly what concerns people and puts them in fear of what the government control of health care will look like."

Just figured I'd give all the GOPers here a head start on the crazy.

Dude, find the pdf and do the work sheet. It is a disgusting peice of shit.

And, since YOU started the crazy, you are the only one with the HEADstart

Here is the link so you can go through the work book

http://www.werushdaily.com/sites/www.werushdaily.com/files/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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Dude, find the pdf and do the work sheet. It is a disgusting peice of shit.

WTF are you talking about? Have YOU read the document? It is completely reasonable, and I would hope that every skydiver has gone through this sort of thing with their family. YOUR LIFE-YOUR CHOICES, what could possibly be wrong about that? Anyone who dumps end-of-life decisions on their loved ones without providing them with pretty specific information about what treatment they would want to receive is selfish and thoughtless at best, negligently inflicting unnecessary pain and distress on their own families. If you do it out of your blind hatred for Obama, that's truely demented.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Dude, find the pdf and do the work sheet. It is a disgusting peice of shit.

WTF are you talking about? Have YOU read the document? It is completely reasonable, and I would hope that every skydiver has gone through this sort of thing with their family. YOUR LIFE-YOUR CHOICES, what could possibly be wrong about that? Anyone who dumps end-of-life decisions on their loved ones without providing them with pretty specific information about what treatment they would want to receive is selfish and thoughtless at best, negligently inflicting unnecessary pain and distress on their own families. If you do it out of your blind hatred for Obama, that's truely demented.

Don

I did read it. It got disgusting at page 21. None of the governments business to begin with

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Quote

None of the governments business to begin with

The government administers medicare. It does so because, in a system where medical insurance is to an overwhelming extent obtained through ones employment, retiring means also losing your insurance (except in the case where you belong to a union that negotiated coverage as a retirement benefit, such as the auto workers you guys love to hate on). As retired people tend to be older (duh!), and older people have more medical issues and so expenses, no private insurers were willing to cover retirees at rates that were affordable to any but the most wealthy. In the absence of a free-market alternative, the government was compelled to create medicare.

Given the average life expectancy in the US, it is safe to say that end-of-life decisions in the great majority of cases apply to retired people on medicare.

So absolutely the government DOES have an interest in encouraging people to think in advance about these issues.

Let me ask you, is your hatred of Obama and the government so strong that you plan to refuse medicare and social security, if in your opinion they are none of the government's business? Or are you all hat, no cattle?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[DanG 1]

Um, no one is proposing you send that info to the government. It is to help you and your family talk about things no one wants to talk about.

The anti-Obama vitriol is getting really scary. What hapened to people's using their brains once in a while?

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

None of the governments business to begin with

The government administers medicare. It does so because, in a system where medical insurance is to an overwhelming extent obtained through ones employment, retiring means also losing your insurance (except in the case where you belong to a union that negotiated coverage as a retirement benefit, such as the auto workers you guys love to hate on). As retired people tend to be older (duh!), and older people have more medical issues and so expenses, no private insurers were willing to cover retirees at rates that were affordable to any but the most wealthy. In the absence of a free-market alternative, the government was compelled to create medicare.

Given the average life expectancy in the US, it is safe to say that end-of-life decisions in the great majority of cases apply to retired people on medicare.

So absolutely the government DOES have an interest in encouraging people to think in advance about these issues.

Let me ask you, is your hatred of Obama and the government so strong that you plan to refuse medicare and social security, if in your opinion they are none of the government's business? Or are you all hat, no cattle?

Don

Now we are to the hatred of Obama comments. Are you getting that desperate already?

Medicade and care are other topics. But in the sence they are gov run shows you know how bad it would be if the gov took over more.

You can try and paint those who disagree with the gov take over as uncaring if you want. but it fails to have any effect on me cause it is a lie.

The gov is messing it up now. They will only make it worse.

Do yourself a favor and google the results and problems with Oregons state run program.

Might be an eye opener for you.

And no, the gov has absolutly NO business working with me or my family about any of my health issues unless I am a Vet *which they treat baddly) or a fed or state employee. Otherwise butt out

all hat, no cattle? Cant say I have heard of that one

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Um, no one is proposing you send that info to the government. It is to help you and your family talk about things no one wants to talk about.

The anti-Obama vitriol is getting really scary. What hapened to people's using their brains once in a while?

Got nothing to do with Obama (your side needs to make it that way to scream racism howerver) it has to do with big government getting bigger taking over things it has no constitutional authority to take over.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Yeah, I'm sure if GWB's administration had encouraged people to make out living wills (which is all this is) you would have been just as upset.

Please.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

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Yeah, I'm sure if GWB's administration had encouraged people to make out living wills (which is all this is) you would have been just as upset.

Please.

Ah, the GWB admin stopped the vet admid from using it. Obama started it up again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,452]

Rush, this workbook is fucking brilliant. It's meant to be used for a single person to look at, think about what they want for their life, doodle and make notes in, and then throw away before communicating what they want to the people whom they think need to know.

Because most of us think things at one time or another that we might think better of after spending some time on them. Most of my thoughts don't come out perfect the first time.

If we all came equipped with all knowledge, then we wouldn't need a book. But, ya know, most people would prefer to die in their sleep -- it never occurs to them that they might not, that it might be long and protracted. And while it might not change their decision, it's worth knowing.

A skydiver can devastate his family financially with a life-altering injury. All of a sudden they can be unable to work, and because of that they lose their job eventually. You don't qualify for Medicare until you're 65, and it takes awhile to get on Medicaid.

Hopefully it won't happen. I, personally, don't plan on having the plug pulled on me if that happens, unless my brain isn't there. But I have relatives who have specifically stated they do NOT want to live with a high paralysis. It took seeing someone live like that for them to decide.

Knowledge is power. Looking away doesn't mean it won't happen, and it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Have you spoken with your family, including parents, about everyone's wishes if they don't die in their sleep? Even if you don't use this booklet, I can assure you it's a valuable conversation to have. And no, I don't want to know what the decision is -- that's among your family. But it's really better to have the discussion.

Edit to add: Actually, the biggest problem with that workbook is that it's too frickin' long. No one would ever read the whole thing

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

For personal use maybe. As a tool for a gov agency. No way

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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As a tool for a gov agency. No way

Do you have any evidence that the gov't is using it as a tool, as opposed to just handing it to people to take away and read on their own or not as they see fit? I didn't see any requirement to fill it out and send it back to any agency, unlike tax or census forms that are tools.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[SpeedRacer 1]

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For personal use maybe. As a tool for a gov agency. No way

So then don't use that form. There's no requirement to as far as I know.

If you don't want your health care providers to know about your end-of-life decisions, by all means, carry the secret with you to your grave. of course, you might spend a long time in a coma first.

Speed Racer
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