rushmc 23 #26 August 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteAs a tool for a gov agency. No wayDo you have any evidence that the gov't is using it as a tool, as opposed to just handing it to people to take away and read on their own or not as they see fit? I didn't see any requirement to fill it out and send it back to any agency, unlike tax or census forms that are tools. Don Bottom line, is it is NONE of the govs business. As an aside. google OR state health care news stories. they had it for a few months before it went bankrupt. And even in those few months it was fast becoming a disaster"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #27 August 26, 2009 *** A skydiver can devastate his family financially with a life-altering injury. All of a sudden they can be unable to work, and because of that they lose their job eventually. You don't qualify for Medicare until you're 65, and it takes awhile to get on Medicaid. QuoteSo, what's your solution to this?Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #28 August 26, 2009 QuoteWhat about Cora??? Who is Cora?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanG 1 #29 August 26, 2009 QuoteBottom line, is it is NONE of the govs business. Quote Right. AND WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THIS PAMPHLET??? Fuck - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,452 #30 August 26, 2009 Well, I'm hoping to die in my sleep. But my husband, son, and brothers know what I want, and that's who needs to know. That said, I believe that information is personal, just as the information in the worksheet, if someone chooses to use it is personal. But it's better to make big decisions with more information than with less. Use the booklet, then throw it the fuck away. Shred it. It's not for anyone but you. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rivetgeek 0 #31 August 26, 2009 QuoteAnd no, the gov has absolutly(SIC) NO business working with me or my family about any of my health issues unless I am a Vet *which they treat baddly(SIC)) or a fed or state employee. Otherwise butt out Kinda like how the GWB administration did everything in its power to eliminate contraception talk in sex ed and focus on abstinence only? For fuck's sake EVERY administration affects people's lives and health. All this brochure does is encourage people to make living wills and decide with their families what they want to have done should they be unable to make the choice later (which every adult SHOULD have anyway). To call it anything else is gross political spin.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #32 August 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteAnd no, the gov has absolutly(SIC) NO business working with me or my family about any of my health issues unless I am a Vet *which they treat baddly(SIC)) or a fed or state employee. Otherwise butt out Kinda like how the GWB administration did everything in its power to eliminate contraception talk in sex ed and focus on abstinence only? For fuck's sake EVERY administration affects people's lives and health. All this brochure does is encourage people to make living wills and decide with their families what they want to have done should they be unable to make the choice later (which every adult SHOULD have anyway). To call it anything else is gross political spin. No, nothing like it at all"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #33 August 26, 2009 QuoteTo call it anything else is gross political spin. then why did they pull it off the web????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #34 August 26, 2009 NEWS FLASH!!! OBAMA ADMINISTRATION SAYS BREATHING IS ESSENTIAL FOR GOOD HEALTH!!! Hah! Now watch all the right-wing ODS types hold their breath until they pass out.Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjames 2 #35 August 26, 2009 Quote Rush, this workbook is fucking brilliant. / it's worth knowing/ Edit to add: Actually, the biggest problem with that workbook is that it's too frickin' long. No one would ever read the whole thing snipped where I felt like snipping.. I read the whole thing. Cudda done without the Readers Digest heart tugging sappy tree hugging cry baby crap-ola though. It is what it is. I saved a copy to re-read just before dementia sets in so I can..uhh I can. How was your day dear? "exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile" 'nother james Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rivetgeek 0 #36 August 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd no, the gov has absolutly(SIC) NO business working with me or my family about any of my health issues unless I am a Vet *which they treat baddly(SIC)) or a fed or state employee. Otherwise butt out Kinda like how the GWB administration did everything in its power to eliminate contraception talk in sex ed and focus on abstinence only? For fuck's sake EVERY administration affects people's lives and health. All this brochure does is encourage people to make living wills and decide with their families what they want to have done should they be unable to make the choice later (which every adult SHOULD have anyway). To call it anything else is gross political spin. No, nothing like it at all Oh well shit, with such a well thought out retort like that you MUST be right! Next time put it in bold, as we all know that if you respond it bold it must prove your post without any evidence whatsoever.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rivetgeek 0 #37 August 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteTo call it anything else is gross political spin. then why did they pull it off the web????? I have no evidence that they "Pulled it off the web" do you? You know they dont keep these things up forever. And if it was removed earlier than planned, maybe it's because the neo-cons are making a mountain out of a molehill, the same reason the universal health care act was revised to preclude any mention of end of life counseling. Not because it was wrong, but because it was easier just to remove the object of the political spin.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,317 #38 August 27, 2009 While I can appreciate your sarcasm; personally, I'd like to see Obama fix the VA Health Care system as a test model before attempting to fix the entire U.S. Health Care system.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #39 August 27, 2009 QuoteWhile I can appreciate your sarcasm; personally, I'd like to see Obama fix the VA Health Care system as a test model before attempting to fix the entire U.S. Health Care system. Quotethe problem is that niether bilvon nor Obama are interested in fixing problems only creating a welfare state with new problems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #40 August 27, 2009 QuoteWhile I can appreciate your sarcasm; personally, I'd like to see Obama fix the VA Health Care system as a test model before attempting to fix the entire U.S. Health Care system. That would be relatively easy, eliminate the waste and extremely high salaries at the top. But that would be like asking a thief to watch the cash box. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #41 August 27, 2009 Quotethe problem is that niether bilvon nor Obama are interested in fixing problems only creating a welfare state with new problemsThat's a pretty shitty thing to say. It must be a pretty dark world you live in if you really believe things like that. In another thread (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3651402;page=7;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;) I asked you to suggest a real course of action to address a problem (illegal immigration). You gave a POS knee-jerk bumper sticker mentality answer that had obvious major problems. When I pointed them out you said I was "making excuses", so I gave some real suggestions that would actually address the problem we were discussing. You never bothered to comment on those suggestions one way or the other. It's almost as if YOU are the one who isn't interested in fixing problems, just finding things to whine about so you can bitch about Obama. I hope you can prove me wrong by offering a constructive workable solution for some of these problems once in a while. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites redlegphi 0 #42 August 27, 2009 Quote Bottom line, is it is NONE of the govs business. Except that these people are being treated in a government hospital and if they're reading the pamphlet, they've presumably asked a government-provided doctor about end of life counseling. Also, it seems entirely likely that they'd receive end of life care in those same government hospitals. Other than that, it's certainly none of the government's business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,452 #43 August 27, 2009 No, what they fill into the workbook is, in fact, none of the government's business. But it's not meant to be handed back in like a homework assignment, so it's irrelevant. But it's kind of like complaining about hurricane preparedness worksheets. What -- you mean they're going to make us tell them how many canned goods we have??? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #44 August 27, 2009 QuoteQuotethe problem is that niether bilvon nor Obama are interested in fixing problems only creating a welfare state with new problemsThat's a pretty shitty thing to say. It must be a pretty dark world you live in if you really believe things like that. In another thread (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3651402;page=7;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;) I asked you to suggest a real course of action to address a problem (illegal immigration). You gave a POS knee-jerk bumper sticker mentality answer that had obvious major problems. When I pointed them out you said I was "making excuses", so I gave some real suggestions that would actually address the problem we were discussing. You never bothered to comment on those suggestions one way or the other. It's almost as if YOU are the one who isn't interested in fixing problems, just finding things to whine about so you can bitch about Obama. I hope you can prove me wrong by offering a constructive workable solution for some of these problems once in a while. Don Quotesimple, give the vets the care they need. They scrificed life limbs and health for our freedom. if they need care to celebrate more days months or years of their lives, give it to them. As far as your other post, and the problem with the left, is that you won't commit to a actual policy until all posibility of of mistakes or hurt feelings can be avoided. Aint going to happen so we all just sit and watch the problem get worse. Your sugestions left the gray area for lawyers to rip it apart and thus leaving us in the same situation we started with. Just send the Illegals home, let their country deal with it and if there are problems that arise at least it will be their government, lawyers, and funding to pay for their problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites redlegphi 0 #45 August 27, 2009 The government is totally coming to take your canned goods away and then redistribute them to members of ACORN. Sucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #46 August 27, 2009 Quotegive the vets the care they need. They scrificed life limbs and health for our freedom. if they need care to celebrate more days months or years of their lives, give it to them.I have no problem with this at all. QuoteJust send the Illegals home, let their country deal with itBumper sticker mentality. Sounds good, but how will you do it? To do it, you have to be able to tell who is illegal and who isn't. Since birth certificates are easily faked (just ask all the Obama-isn't-a-natural-born-citizen whackjobs), to do this authentic citizens would have to carry proof of citizenship that is not easily faked, such as a passport or national identity card, and be willing to produce that proof whenever anyone questioned their citizenship. Of course all hell would break loose from the political right if the government was to demand that. I can hear the Nazi comparisons already. You seem to think you can somehow know just by looking at someone if they are American (or perhaps by listening to them), but you can't, and you also can't just go around ordering people deported because you, marks2065, think they don't look American enough. In the other thread you said send illegals in the prisons home. We already do, once their sentence is complete, so I assume you meant instead of imprisoning them here. So what you are offering as a serious suggestion is that when illegal immigrants are arrested for a crime, we just kick them out of the country. That'll show 'em. And for sure their harsh experience with American justice (being sent home and all) will ensure they never try to come back. Get real. Quote...you won't commit to a actual policy until all posibility of of mistakes or hurt feelings can be avoided.You consider refusing necessary emergency care to US citizens who have never done anything wrong, because you happen to think they might be illegal, to be "hurt feelings"? You consider deporting US citizens who have never done anything wrong, stranding them in a foreign country where they really are not citizens and have no way to come back, to be "hurt feelings"? What would you have to do to someone to cause them actual harm? QuoteYour sugestions left the gray area for lawyers ...And your suggestion is that there be no rule of law, just your gut feeling about who is a real American and who is not? Marks2065 is the decider, and there is no appeal. Once again, MY suggestions were based on the premise that, if there are no jobs for illegal immigrants, there will be no incentive for them to come here illegally. So: 1) Really set up a fast, efficient, and accurate system to verify social security numbers. We were supposed to have this years ago, but because of congressional foot-dragging we do not. 2) Require employers to make a good-faith effort to verify social security numbers before employing anyone. Every University I have worked for already does this, because they risk losing eligibility for federal research grants if they do not. 3) Severely fine employers who hire illegal immigrants. This of course would require that the government actually make an effort to check the employment rolls of businesses, instead of turning a blind eye as has been done in the past. What is "not committing to an actual policy" about that? Where is the "grey area for lawyers to rip it apart"? Plus, MY suggestions do not require anyone to carry proof of US citizenship, just have a valid social security card to get employment (and let's say government benefits too), which is already legally required. Could it be that YOU do not want the responsibility of making sure the people you employ are not illegal? Could it be that you want the problem fixed, but you yourself don't want to bear the smallest inconvenience but rather want someone else to take care of it for you? Could it be that you don't REALLY care about the problem, you just enjoy the opportunity to rip on the Government, especially now that Obama is in office? And I still think you owe Billvon an apology, though I'm sure hell will freeze over before that happens. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #47 August 28, 2009 I Have a couple customers that work at Ohare, they are imigration police. they are not, at this time ,allowed to deport imigrants that they know are illegal. This is wrong and is a place to start. the problem is there are to many loop holes that keep the imigration police from being able to do there job. The lawyers and liberals have put up to many road blocks to imigration that they cannot do their job effectively. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #48 August 28, 2009 I'd be curious to know why they can't deport known illegal immigrants. Do you have any info on that? Are they awaiting trial? Have they had kids, who would be US citizens if born here? The latter gets messy as you can't legally just deport the kids, and you can't deport the parents and leave small kids without adult caregivers, which does leave immigration officers in a frustrating no-win situation. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #49 August 28, 2009 QuoteI'd be curious to know why they can't deport known illegal immigrants. Do you have any info on that? Are they awaiting trial? Have they had kids, who would be US citizens if born here? The latter gets messy as you can't legally just deport the kids, and you can't deport the parents and leave small kids without adult caregivers, which does leave immigration officers in a frustrating no-win situation. Don Quotelike I said, the lawyers and liberals have tied things up so bad that the police can't do their job. The illegal situation is a major factor in our currant financial situation, not to mention the jobs they fill cause part of the unemployment we have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rivetgeek 0 #50 August 28, 2009 Quote not to mention the jobs they fill cause part of the unemployment we have. Don't kid yourself. have you SEEN the jobs they do? Nobody on unemployment checks is standing outside home depot waiting for a truck to come take them to pick strawberries in 100 degree heat or dig holes all day. I personally am in total favor of immigration reform but to say they are taking jobs legal citizens would do is just fucking ridiculous.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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georgerussia 0 #28 August 26, 2009 QuoteWhat about Cora??? Who is Cora?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #29 August 26, 2009 QuoteBottom line, is it is NONE of the govs business. Quote Right. AND WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THIS PAMPHLET??? Fuck - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,452 #30 August 26, 2009 Well, I'm hoping to die in my sleep. But my husband, son, and brothers know what I want, and that's who needs to know. That said, I believe that information is personal, just as the information in the worksheet, if someone chooses to use it is personal. But it's better to make big decisions with more information than with less. Use the booklet, then throw it the fuck away. Shred it. It's not for anyone but you. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rivetgeek 0 #31 August 26, 2009 QuoteAnd no, the gov has absolutly(SIC) NO business working with me or my family about any of my health issues unless I am a Vet *which they treat baddly(SIC)) or a fed or state employee. Otherwise butt out Kinda like how the GWB administration did everything in its power to eliminate contraception talk in sex ed and focus on abstinence only? For fuck's sake EVERY administration affects people's lives and health. All this brochure does is encourage people to make living wills and decide with their families what they want to have done should they be unable to make the choice later (which every adult SHOULD have anyway). To call it anything else is gross political spin.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #32 August 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteAnd no, the gov has absolutly(SIC) NO business working with me or my family about any of my health issues unless I am a Vet *which they treat baddly(SIC)) or a fed or state employee. Otherwise butt out Kinda like how the GWB administration did everything in its power to eliminate contraception talk in sex ed and focus on abstinence only? For fuck's sake EVERY administration affects people's lives and health. All this brochure does is encourage people to make living wills and decide with their families what they want to have done should they be unable to make the choice later (which every adult SHOULD have anyway). To call it anything else is gross political spin. No, nothing like it at all"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #33 August 26, 2009 QuoteTo call it anything else is gross political spin. then why did they pull it off the web????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #34 August 26, 2009 NEWS FLASH!!! OBAMA ADMINISTRATION SAYS BREATHING IS ESSENTIAL FOR GOOD HEALTH!!! Hah! Now watch all the right-wing ODS types hold their breath until they pass out.Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjames 2 #35 August 26, 2009 Quote Rush, this workbook is fucking brilliant. / it's worth knowing/ Edit to add: Actually, the biggest problem with that workbook is that it's too frickin' long. No one would ever read the whole thing snipped where I felt like snipping.. I read the whole thing. Cudda done without the Readers Digest heart tugging sappy tree hugging cry baby crap-ola though. It is what it is. I saved a copy to re-read just before dementia sets in so I can..uhh I can. How was your day dear? "exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile" 'nother james Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rivetgeek 0 #36 August 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd no, the gov has absolutly(SIC) NO business working with me or my family about any of my health issues unless I am a Vet *which they treat baddly(SIC)) or a fed or state employee. Otherwise butt out Kinda like how the GWB administration did everything in its power to eliminate contraception talk in sex ed and focus on abstinence only? For fuck's sake EVERY administration affects people's lives and health. All this brochure does is encourage people to make living wills and decide with their families what they want to have done should they be unable to make the choice later (which every adult SHOULD have anyway). To call it anything else is gross political spin. No, nothing like it at all Oh well shit, with such a well thought out retort like that you MUST be right! Next time put it in bold, as we all know that if you respond it bold it must prove your post without any evidence whatsoever.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rivetgeek 0 #37 August 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteTo call it anything else is gross political spin. then why did they pull it off the web????? I have no evidence that they "Pulled it off the web" do you? You know they dont keep these things up forever. And if it was removed earlier than planned, maybe it's because the neo-cons are making a mountain out of a molehill, the same reason the universal health care act was revised to preclude any mention of end of life counseling. Not because it was wrong, but because it was easier just to remove the object of the political spin.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,317 #38 August 27, 2009 While I can appreciate your sarcasm; personally, I'd like to see Obama fix the VA Health Care system as a test model before attempting to fix the entire U.S. Health Care system.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #39 August 27, 2009 QuoteWhile I can appreciate your sarcasm; personally, I'd like to see Obama fix the VA Health Care system as a test model before attempting to fix the entire U.S. Health Care system. Quotethe problem is that niether bilvon nor Obama are interested in fixing problems only creating a welfare state with new problems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #40 August 27, 2009 QuoteWhile I can appreciate your sarcasm; personally, I'd like to see Obama fix the VA Health Care system as a test model before attempting to fix the entire U.S. Health Care system. That would be relatively easy, eliminate the waste and extremely high salaries at the top. But that would be like asking a thief to watch the cash box. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #41 August 27, 2009 Quotethe problem is that niether bilvon nor Obama are interested in fixing problems only creating a welfare state with new problemsThat's a pretty shitty thing to say. It must be a pretty dark world you live in if you really believe things like that. In another thread (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3651402;page=7;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;) I asked you to suggest a real course of action to address a problem (illegal immigration). You gave a POS knee-jerk bumper sticker mentality answer that had obvious major problems. When I pointed them out you said I was "making excuses", so I gave some real suggestions that would actually address the problem we were discussing. You never bothered to comment on those suggestions one way or the other. It's almost as if YOU are the one who isn't interested in fixing problems, just finding things to whine about so you can bitch about Obama. I hope you can prove me wrong by offering a constructive workable solution for some of these problems once in a while. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites redlegphi 0 #42 August 27, 2009 Quote Bottom line, is it is NONE of the govs business. Except that these people are being treated in a government hospital and if they're reading the pamphlet, they've presumably asked a government-provided doctor about end of life counseling. Also, it seems entirely likely that they'd receive end of life care in those same government hospitals. Other than that, it's certainly none of the government's business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,452 #43 August 27, 2009 No, what they fill into the workbook is, in fact, none of the government's business. But it's not meant to be handed back in like a homework assignment, so it's irrelevant. But it's kind of like complaining about hurricane preparedness worksheets. What -- you mean they're going to make us tell them how many canned goods we have??? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #44 August 27, 2009 QuoteQuotethe problem is that niether bilvon nor Obama are interested in fixing problems only creating a welfare state with new problemsThat's a pretty shitty thing to say. It must be a pretty dark world you live in if you really believe things like that. In another thread (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3651402;page=7;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;) I asked you to suggest a real course of action to address a problem (illegal immigration). You gave a POS knee-jerk bumper sticker mentality answer that had obvious major problems. When I pointed them out you said I was "making excuses", so I gave some real suggestions that would actually address the problem we were discussing. You never bothered to comment on those suggestions one way or the other. It's almost as if YOU are the one who isn't interested in fixing problems, just finding things to whine about so you can bitch about Obama. I hope you can prove me wrong by offering a constructive workable solution for some of these problems once in a while. Don Quotesimple, give the vets the care they need. They scrificed life limbs and health for our freedom. if they need care to celebrate more days months or years of their lives, give it to them. As far as your other post, and the problem with the left, is that you won't commit to a actual policy until all posibility of of mistakes or hurt feelings can be avoided. Aint going to happen so we all just sit and watch the problem get worse. Your sugestions left the gray area for lawyers to rip it apart and thus leaving us in the same situation we started with. Just send the Illegals home, let their country deal with it and if there are problems that arise at least it will be their government, lawyers, and funding to pay for their problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites redlegphi 0 #45 August 27, 2009 The government is totally coming to take your canned goods away and then redistribute them to members of ACORN. Sucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #46 August 27, 2009 Quotegive the vets the care they need. They scrificed life limbs and health for our freedom. if they need care to celebrate more days months or years of their lives, give it to them.I have no problem with this at all. QuoteJust send the Illegals home, let their country deal with itBumper sticker mentality. Sounds good, but how will you do it? To do it, you have to be able to tell who is illegal and who isn't. Since birth certificates are easily faked (just ask all the Obama-isn't-a-natural-born-citizen whackjobs), to do this authentic citizens would have to carry proof of citizenship that is not easily faked, such as a passport or national identity card, and be willing to produce that proof whenever anyone questioned their citizenship. Of course all hell would break loose from the political right if the government was to demand that. I can hear the Nazi comparisons already. You seem to think you can somehow know just by looking at someone if they are American (or perhaps by listening to them), but you can't, and you also can't just go around ordering people deported because you, marks2065, think they don't look American enough. In the other thread you said send illegals in the prisons home. We already do, once their sentence is complete, so I assume you meant instead of imprisoning them here. So what you are offering as a serious suggestion is that when illegal immigrants are arrested for a crime, we just kick them out of the country. That'll show 'em. And for sure their harsh experience with American justice (being sent home and all) will ensure they never try to come back. Get real. Quote...you won't commit to a actual policy until all posibility of of mistakes or hurt feelings can be avoided.You consider refusing necessary emergency care to US citizens who have never done anything wrong, because you happen to think they might be illegal, to be "hurt feelings"? You consider deporting US citizens who have never done anything wrong, stranding them in a foreign country where they really are not citizens and have no way to come back, to be "hurt feelings"? What would you have to do to someone to cause them actual harm? QuoteYour sugestions left the gray area for lawyers ...And your suggestion is that there be no rule of law, just your gut feeling about who is a real American and who is not? Marks2065 is the decider, and there is no appeal. Once again, MY suggestions were based on the premise that, if there are no jobs for illegal immigrants, there will be no incentive for them to come here illegally. So: 1) Really set up a fast, efficient, and accurate system to verify social security numbers. We were supposed to have this years ago, but because of congressional foot-dragging we do not. 2) Require employers to make a good-faith effort to verify social security numbers before employing anyone. Every University I have worked for already does this, because they risk losing eligibility for federal research grants if they do not. 3) Severely fine employers who hire illegal immigrants. This of course would require that the government actually make an effort to check the employment rolls of businesses, instead of turning a blind eye as has been done in the past. What is "not committing to an actual policy" about that? Where is the "grey area for lawyers to rip it apart"? Plus, MY suggestions do not require anyone to carry proof of US citizenship, just have a valid social security card to get employment (and let's say government benefits too), which is already legally required. Could it be that YOU do not want the responsibility of making sure the people you employ are not illegal? Could it be that you want the problem fixed, but you yourself don't want to bear the smallest inconvenience but rather want someone else to take care of it for you? Could it be that you don't REALLY care about the problem, you just enjoy the opportunity to rip on the Government, especially now that Obama is in office? And I still think you owe Billvon an apology, though I'm sure hell will freeze over before that happens. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #47 August 28, 2009 I Have a couple customers that work at Ohare, they are imigration police. they are not, at this time ,allowed to deport imigrants that they know are illegal. This is wrong and is a place to start. the problem is there are to many loop holes that keep the imigration police from being able to do there job. The lawyers and liberals have put up to many road blocks to imigration that they cannot do their job effectively. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 362 #48 August 28, 2009 I'd be curious to know why they can't deport known illegal immigrants. Do you have any info on that? Are they awaiting trial? Have they had kids, who would be US citizens if born here? The latter gets messy as you can't legally just deport the kids, and you can't deport the parents and leave small kids without adult caregivers, which does leave immigration officers in a frustrating no-win situation. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #49 August 28, 2009 QuoteI'd be curious to know why they can't deport known illegal immigrants. Do you have any info on that? Are they awaiting trial? Have they had kids, who would be US citizens if born here? The latter gets messy as you can't legally just deport the kids, and you can't deport the parents and leave small kids without adult caregivers, which does leave immigration officers in a frustrating no-win situation. Don Quotelike I said, the lawyers and liberals have tied things up so bad that the police can't do their job. The illegal situation is a major factor in our currant financial situation, not to mention the jobs they fill cause part of the unemployment we have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rivetgeek 0 #50 August 28, 2009 Quote not to mention the jobs they fill cause part of the unemployment we have. Don't kid yourself. have you SEEN the jobs they do? Nobody on unemployment checks is standing outside home depot waiting for a truck to come take them to pick strawberries in 100 degree heat or dig holes all day. I personally am in total favor of immigration reform but to say they are taking jobs legal citizens would do is just fucking ridiculous.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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wmw999 2,452 #30 August 26, 2009 Well, I'm hoping to die in my sleep. But my husband, son, and brothers know what I want, and that's who needs to know. That said, I believe that information is personal, just as the information in the worksheet, if someone chooses to use it is personal. But it's better to make big decisions with more information than with less. Use the booklet, then throw it the fuck away. Shred it. It's not for anyone but you. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rivetgeek 0 #31 August 26, 2009 QuoteAnd no, the gov has absolutly(SIC) NO business working with me or my family about any of my health issues unless I am a Vet *which they treat baddly(SIC)) or a fed or state employee. Otherwise butt out Kinda like how the GWB administration did everything in its power to eliminate contraception talk in sex ed and focus on abstinence only? For fuck's sake EVERY administration affects people's lives and health. All this brochure does is encourage people to make living wills and decide with their families what they want to have done should they be unable to make the choice later (which every adult SHOULD have anyway). To call it anything else is gross political spin.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #32 August 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteAnd no, the gov has absolutly(SIC) NO business working with me or my family about any of my health issues unless I am a Vet *which they treat baddly(SIC)) or a fed or state employee. Otherwise butt out Kinda like how the GWB administration did everything in its power to eliminate contraception talk in sex ed and focus on abstinence only? For fuck's sake EVERY administration affects people's lives and health. All this brochure does is encourage people to make living wills and decide with their families what they want to have done should they be unable to make the choice later (which every adult SHOULD have anyway). To call it anything else is gross political spin. No, nothing like it at all"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #33 August 26, 2009 QuoteTo call it anything else is gross political spin. then why did they pull it off the web????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #34 August 26, 2009 NEWS FLASH!!! OBAMA ADMINISTRATION SAYS BREATHING IS ESSENTIAL FOR GOOD HEALTH!!! Hah! Now watch all the right-wing ODS types hold their breath until they pass out.Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjames 2 #35 August 26, 2009 Quote Rush, this workbook is fucking brilliant. / it's worth knowing/ Edit to add: Actually, the biggest problem with that workbook is that it's too frickin' long. No one would ever read the whole thing snipped where I felt like snipping.. I read the whole thing. Cudda done without the Readers Digest heart tugging sappy tree hugging cry baby crap-ola though. It is what it is. I saved a copy to re-read just before dementia sets in so I can..uhh I can. How was your day dear? "exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile" 'nother james Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rivetgeek 0 #36 August 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd no, the gov has absolutly(SIC) NO business working with me or my family about any of my health issues unless I am a Vet *which they treat baddly(SIC)) or a fed or state employee. Otherwise butt out Kinda like how the GWB administration did everything in its power to eliminate contraception talk in sex ed and focus on abstinence only? For fuck's sake EVERY administration affects people's lives and health. All this brochure does is encourage people to make living wills and decide with their families what they want to have done should they be unable to make the choice later (which every adult SHOULD have anyway). To call it anything else is gross political spin. No, nothing like it at all Oh well shit, with such a well thought out retort like that you MUST be right! Next time put it in bold, as we all know that if you respond it bold it must prove your post without any evidence whatsoever.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rivetgeek 0 #37 August 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteTo call it anything else is gross political spin. then why did they pull it off the web????? I have no evidence that they "Pulled it off the web" do you? You know they dont keep these things up forever. And if it was removed earlier than planned, maybe it's because the neo-cons are making a mountain out of a molehill, the same reason the universal health care act was revised to preclude any mention of end of life counseling. Not because it was wrong, but because it was easier just to remove the object of the political spin.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,317 #38 August 27, 2009 While I can appreciate your sarcasm; personally, I'd like to see Obama fix the VA Health Care system as a test model before attempting to fix the entire U.S. Health Care system.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #39 August 27, 2009 QuoteWhile I can appreciate your sarcasm; personally, I'd like to see Obama fix the VA Health Care system as a test model before attempting to fix the entire U.S. Health Care system. Quotethe problem is that niether bilvon nor Obama are interested in fixing problems only creating a welfare state with new problems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #40 August 27, 2009 QuoteWhile I can appreciate your sarcasm; personally, I'd like to see Obama fix the VA Health Care system as a test model before attempting to fix the entire U.S. Health Care system. That would be relatively easy, eliminate the waste and extremely high salaries at the top. But that would be like asking a thief to watch the cash box. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #41 August 27, 2009 Quotethe problem is that niether bilvon nor Obama are interested in fixing problems only creating a welfare state with new problemsThat's a pretty shitty thing to say. It must be a pretty dark world you live in if you really believe things like that. In another thread (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3651402;page=7;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;) I asked you to suggest a real course of action to address a problem (illegal immigration). You gave a POS knee-jerk bumper sticker mentality answer that had obvious major problems. When I pointed them out you said I was "making excuses", so I gave some real suggestions that would actually address the problem we were discussing. You never bothered to comment on those suggestions one way or the other. It's almost as if YOU are the one who isn't interested in fixing problems, just finding things to whine about so you can bitch about Obama. I hope you can prove me wrong by offering a constructive workable solution for some of these problems once in a while. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #42 August 27, 2009 Quote Bottom line, is it is NONE of the govs business. Except that these people are being treated in a government hospital and if they're reading the pamphlet, they've presumably asked a government-provided doctor about end of life counseling. Also, it seems entirely likely that they'd receive end of life care in those same government hospitals. Other than that, it's certainly none of the government's business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #43 August 27, 2009 No, what they fill into the workbook is, in fact, none of the government's business. But it's not meant to be handed back in like a homework assignment, so it's irrelevant. But it's kind of like complaining about hurricane preparedness worksheets. What -- you mean they're going to make us tell them how many canned goods we have??? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #44 August 27, 2009 QuoteQuotethe problem is that niether bilvon nor Obama are interested in fixing problems only creating a welfare state with new problemsThat's a pretty shitty thing to say. It must be a pretty dark world you live in if you really believe things like that. In another thread (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3651402;page=7;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;) I asked you to suggest a real course of action to address a problem (illegal immigration). You gave a POS knee-jerk bumper sticker mentality answer that had obvious major problems. When I pointed them out you said I was "making excuses", so I gave some real suggestions that would actually address the problem we were discussing. You never bothered to comment on those suggestions one way or the other. It's almost as if YOU are the one who isn't interested in fixing problems, just finding things to whine about so you can bitch about Obama. I hope you can prove me wrong by offering a constructive workable solution for some of these problems once in a while. Don Quotesimple, give the vets the care they need. They scrificed life limbs and health for our freedom. if they need care to celebrate more days months or years of their lives, give it to them. As far as your other post, and the problem with the left, is that you won't commit to a actual policy until all posibility of of mistakes or hurt feelings can be avoided. Aint going to happen so we all just sit and watch the problem get worse. Your sugestions left the gray area for lawyers to rip it apart and thus leaving us in the same situation we started with. Just send the Illegals home, let their country deal with it and if there are problems that arise at least it will be their government, lawyers, and funding to pay for their problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #45 August 27, 2009 The government is totally coming to take your canned goods away and then redistribute them to members of ACORN. Sucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #46 August 27, 2009 Quotegive the vets the care they need. They scrificed life limbs and health for our freedom. if they need care to celebrate more days months or years of their lives, give it to them.I have no problem with this at all. QuoteJust send the Illegals home, let their country deal with itBumper sticker mentality. Sounds good, but how will you do it? To do it, you have to be able to tell who is illegal and who isn't. Since birth certificates are easily faked (just ask all the Obama-isn't-a-natural-born-citizen whackjobs), to do this authentic citizens would have to carry proof of citizenship that is not easily faked, such as a passport or national identity card, and be willing to produce that proof whenever anyone questioned their citizenship. Of course all hell would break loose from the political right if the government was to demand that. I can hear the Nazi comparisons already. You seem to think you can somehow know just by looking at someone if they are American (or perhaps by listening to them), but you can't, and you also can't just go around ordering people deported because you, marks2065, think they don't look American enough. In the other thread you said send illegals in the prisons home. We already do, once their sentence is complete, so I assume you meant instead of imprisoning them here. So what you are offering as a serious suggestion is that when illegal immigrants are arrested for a crime, we just kick them out of the country. That'll show 'em. And for sure their harsh experience with American justice (being sent home and all) will ensure they never try to come back. Get real. Quote...you won't commit to a actual policy until all posibility of of mistakes or hurt feelings can be avoided.You consider refusing necessary emergency care to US citizens who have never done anything wrong, because you happen to think they might be illegal, to be "hurt feelings"? You consider deporting US citizens who have never done anything wrong, stranding them in a foreign country where they really are not citizens and have no way to come back, to be "hurt feelings"? What would you have to do to someone to cause them actual harm? QuoteYour sugestions left the gray area for lawyers ...And your suggestion is that there be no rule of law, just your gut feeling about who is a real American and who is not? Marks2065 is the decider, and there is no appeal. Once again, MY suggestions were based on the premise that, if there are no jobs for illegal immigrants, there will be no incentive for them to come here illegally. So: 1) Really set up a fast, efficient, and accurate system to verify social security numbers. We were supposed to have this years ago, but because of congressional foot-dragging we do not. 2) Require employers to make a good-faith effort to verify social security numbers before employing anyone. Every University I have worked for already does this, because they risk losing eligibility for federal research grants if they do not. 3) Severely fine employers who hire illegal immigrants. This of course would require that the government actually make an effort to check the employment rolls of businesses, instead of turning a blind eye as has been done in the past. What is "not committing to an actual policy" about that? Where is the "grey area for lawyers to rip it apart"? Plus, MY suggestions do not require anyone to carry proof of US citizenship, just have a valid social security card to get employment (and let's say government benefits too), which is already legally required. Could it be that YOU do not want the responsibility of making sure the people you employ are not illegal? Could it be that you want the problem fixed, but you yourself don't want to bear the smallest inconvenience but rather want someone else to take care of it for you? Could it be that you don't REALLY care about the problem, you just enjoy the opportunity to rip on the Government, especially now that Obama is in office? And I still think you owe Billvon an apology, though I'm sure hell will freeze over before that happens. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #47 August 28, 2009 I Have a couple customers that work at Ohare, they are imigration police. they are not, at this time ,allowed to deport imigrants that they know are illegal. This is wrong and is a place to start. the problem is there are to many loop holes that keep the imigration police from being able to do there job. The lawyers and liberals have put up to many road blocks to imigration that they cannot do their job effectively. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #48 August 28, 2009 I'd be curious to know why they can't deport known illegal immigrants. Do you have any info on that? Are they awaiting trial? Have they had kids, who would be US citizens if born here? The latter gets messy as you can't legally just deport the kids, and you can't deport the parents and leave small kids without adult caregivers, which does leave immigration officers in a frustrating no-win situation. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #49 August 28, 2009 QuoteI'd be curious to know why they can't deport known illegal immigrants. Do you have any info on that? Are they awaiting trial? Have they had kids, who would be US citizens if born here? The latter gets messy as you can't legally just deport the kids, and you can't deport the parents and leave small kids without adult caregivers, which does leave immigration officers in a frustrating no-win situation. Don Quotelike I said, the lawyers and liberals have tied things up so bad that the police can't do their job. The illegal situation is a major factor in our currant financial situation, not to mention the jobs they fill cause part of the unemployment we have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rivetgeek 0 #50 August 28, 2009 Quote not to mention the jobs they fill cause part of the unemployment we have. Don't kid yourself. have you SEEN the jobs they do? Nobody on unemployment checks is standing outside home depot waiting for a truck to come take them to pick strawberries in 100 degree heat or dig holes all day. I personally am in total favor of immigration reform but to say they are taking jobs legal citizens would do is just fucking ridiculous.~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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