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shortyj

How do you view Christians?

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From what I have seen, most religious people are a bunch of hypocrites. Christian, Muslim, it doesn’t matter. I have know people who go to church just for show, to advance their carriers, to suck up to other so called religious people.

I used to fly with a guy who made a big deal about going to church every Sunday. But when we had overnights he was the first one in the bar and always found the strip clubs.

What really pisses me off is the voting block these people have. And most are like sheep, doing what the rich, big buck religious leaders tell them to do.

I respect their right to believe in whatever they want. But I don’t like hypocrites and I don’t like having their morals shoved down my throat and into law.

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You don't have to be one to answer. I just want answers from the heart. The Christians that you have meet what do you think of them?



Christians are wonderful people. Catholics? Ya have to wonder about someone who continues to support an organization that supports through cover up, child molestation.



I agree with you regarding the official Hierarchy of the Catholic Church. But not with regard to "Catholics" generally. Equating the Cathlic Church's hierarchy with ordinary "Catholics" is like equating fatwa-issuing mullahs in Iran with ordinary "Muslims" : both are probably unfair over-generalizations.



You are right. I'm being completely unfair to those who are unaware of this Vatican policy. How strange is it that a catholic priest, who recently was caught having an "affair" with an adult female, was excommunicated?



We may be talking past each other. I'm not saying that most ordinary Catholics are ignorant of the Hierarchy's inexusable failures and complicity in the child abuse cases. Most ordinary Catholics I know (and I know a lot) are very angry about it, so painting them with the same broad brush that paints the complicit clergy is unfair.



Angry enough to stop giving the Vatican money?
www.FourWheelerHB.com

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unfortunately the vast majority of people in the US are Christian.


Indeed they are. Just out of curiosity, why is that "unfortunate"?



I thought I had made that clear; it becomes a single voting block that can be manipulated using the fear of "God".

It's not that they're "Christians," but rather they are such a large block of voters.

Prior to the mid-to-late 1970s, the idea of a voting block of Christians was unheard of. 1979 changed that when Falwell and his new "Moral Majority" decided he could grab some power by hooking up with other groups to help get Reagan elected.

Just the name of the organization alone tells you everything you need to know about the not so subtle way they were going to play. If you weren't part of them, you would have to consider yourself a part of the "minority" (aka losers) and it was your "immoral" nature that caused you to do so.

It's all manipulative.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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unfortunately the vast majority of people in the US are Christian.


Indeed they are. Just out of curiosity, why is that "unfortunate"?



I thought I had made that clear; it becomes a single voting block that can be manipulated using the fear of "God".

It's not that they're "Christians," but rather they are such a large block of voters.

Prior to the mid-to-late 1970s, the idea of a voting block of Christians was unheard of. 1979 changed that when Falwell and his new "Moral Majority" decided he could grab some power by hooking up with other groups to help get Reagan elected.

Just the name of the organization alone tells you everything you need to know about the not so subtle way they were going to play. If you weren't part of them, you would have to consider yourself a part of the "minority" (aka losers) and it was your "immoral" nature that caused you to do so.

It's all manipulative.



I think you are giving way too much credit to Falwell and the "MM". Reagan was elected because the people of America - "MM" or not - wanted change from the nightmare Carter brought to the country. 22% interest rates will do that to people.

I don't see much difference between the "manipulation" you speak of with Christians and that which we see today with ACORN, the SEIU, the green movement (also a religion), and any number of other politically motivated causes. Each spews its version of propaganda to its believers in an effort to influence political opinion and the direction of the country. Christians use religion, but there are many other equally effective voting blocks.

And the Christians I know aren't motivated by any "fear of God" as you put it. They are motivated by doing what they believe is right.

Aren't we all?
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Two things.

1-Lack of control in their life.

"What portion of your life is out of control?"
Relationships. Work. Future plans.
Religion gives pseudo-answers from an invisible authority.

2- It gives them simple, but very comforting, answers to complex questions.

"What happens when I die?"
"How can I keep bad things from happening to me?"
"What is my purpose?"
"Am I a good person?"

They are the questions of scared children.

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Two things.

1-Lack of control in their life.

"What portion of your life is out of control?"
Relationships. Work. Future plans.
Religion gives pseudo-answers from an invisible authority.

2- It gives them simple, but very comforting, answers to complex questions.

"What happens when I die?"
"How can I keep bad things from happening to me?"
"What is my purpose?"
"Am I a good person?"

They are the questions of scared children.



Maybe "happy thoughts " you could answer all of our questions since you are holding your knowledge as supreme to Gods'.
Where do we go when we die?

Blues,
Cliff
2muchTruth

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Two things.

1-Lack of control in their life.

"What portion of your life is out of control?"
Relationships. Work. Future plans.
Religion gives pseudo-answers from an invisible authority.

2- It gives them simple, but very comforting, answers to complex questions.

"What happens when I die?"
"How can I keep bad things from happening to me?"
"What is my purpose?"
"Am I a good person?"

They are the questions of scared children.



Maybe "happy thoughts " you could answer all of our questions since you are holding your knowledge as supreme to Gods'.
Where do we go when we die?

Blues,
Cliff



Into a hole, where you rot. You have no immortal soul
that strolls through eternity in cheery contentment.
We have no specialness that other mammals do not possess.

Beings endeavor to exist. They find it disturbing that they eventually won't. That is neither bad, nor good, but merely the fact.

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.
Where do we go when we die?

Blues,
Cliff



Into a hole, where you rot. You have no immortal soul
that strolls through eternity in cheery contentment.
We have no specialness that other mammals do not possess.

Beings endeavor to exist. They find it disturbing that they eventually won't. That is neither bad, nor good, but merely the fact.

_____________________________________________

Yes, a """fact""" as determined by happy thoughts !

Can be no other way! Happy Thoughts has spoken and he has seen past the horizon.
He has special Knowledge.

Blues,
Cliff
2muchTruth

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I think you are giving way too much credit to Falwell and the "MM".



Not just me. I think if you look closely at the 1980 election you'll see it absolutely had a huge impact.


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I don't see much difference between the "manipulation" you speak of with Christians and that which we see today with ACORN, the SEIU, the green movement (also a religion), and any number of other politically motivated causes.


Exactly. POLITICALLY motivated organizations. Last time I checked, religion wasn't supposed to be about politics. In fact, isn't it written that Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”?
Matthew 22:21

Pretty much any interpretation of that includes; separation of church and state and pay your taxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I think you are giving way too much credit to Falwell and the "MM".



Not just me. I think if you look closely at the 1980 election you'll see it absolutely had a huge impact.


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I don't see much difference between the "manipulation" you speak of with Christians and that which we see today with ACORN, the SEIU, the green movement (also a religion), and any number of other politically motivated causes.


Exactly. POLITICALLY motivated organizations. Last time I checked, religion wasn't supposed to be about politics. In fact, isn't it written that Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”?
Matthew 22:21

Pretty much any interpretation of that includes; separation of church and state and pay your taxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...



So a group of people can work together to acheive political goals unless religion happens to be their common denominator? I don't buy that. Religion is the guiding force in the lives of those who practice it. Using your logic, a religious person has no right to express political opinions since everything in their life is guided by their religion.

Everyone's values and prinicpals are guided by something. Why is it you believe religion (read Christianity) shouldn't be allowed to guide politically active people. Keep in mind that (most) religious people aren't trying to make anyone practive their religion. They are simply using the values they believe in to guide their political decisions. There's a difference.

Besides, religious groups push their agendas into government all the time. I don't hear anyone busting the Muslims balls for trying to push their political agenda. We have tax dollars going to install foot baths in public airports, tax dollars paying government employed muslims to pray during work hours, and an assortment of other failures of "separation of church and state". What's up with that???

As for your assertion that the "Render unto Ceasar" scripture is a way of saying there should be a separation of church and state, that is only an inturpretation of some. There are many more that believe it only referred to Jesus saying man should submit to an earthly authority when appropriate.

Let's not forget the first ammendment - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

I don't know of any law respecting an establishment of religion - do you?
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Well I used to be a "born again" for 16 years. I now think of christians as a group of people that completely disregard the values and teachings of Jesus and instead believe in and act on the "fairy tales" obviously instated by men for their own political and financial agenda. Because things like unconditional love, non materialism, non interventionist, forgiveness, respect, etc. takes effort and humans are in the end, just animals with very developed frontal lobes. That is all. So instead they believe in, again, "fairy tales" and all they have to say is, I have faith". Thats it. They're safe then. I also dont understand why they dont have the urge to learn the true history of their bible (finally compiled for social control of Europe after the first counsel of Nicea). How it was written by men (just men), altered throughout time, and influenced by thousands of different cultures by men with their own greedy financial and political agendas. I said this before. I also would like them to understand that it all stems from sun worshiping. Paganism. Religion is a cultural evolved idea used to deny the fact that we are responsible for our own actions!!!!!




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Exactly. POLITICALLY motivated organizations. Last time I checked, religion wasn't supposed to be about politics.



AMAZING - religion is the original and ultimate POLITICAL structure. seriously, Q

for that matter - every large organization is about politics regardless of what you personally think their stated charter is. I find just as many hypocrits in chuck's list too (ACORN, etc).

this voting block is no different than any other - you'll find people join your PACs for non-logical, farcical and goofy reasons just as those in organized churches join also for support of the myth, or to meet others, or to find a group or community to be in, etc

seems that people that agree that religion is a myth would agree with me that a church is just a power structure with the same motivations and goals as any other power structure or organized effort - they just have a specific recruiting technique (not unique, many of the PACs have a 'believe us without proof or else' methodology as well, they just aren't as practiced at it yet)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Religion is a cultural evolved idea used to deny the fact that we are responsible for our own actions!!!!!



Religion = socialism = politics


so we come full circle to the truth :D

again[:/]

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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How do I view Christians? I would prefer to view them from the lower seats of a Roman coliseum.



I was tempted to say "naked", but I like your one-liner better. :)


Here's a nice Christian.

I think Ghandi got it right.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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How do I view Christians? I would prefer to view them from the lower seats of a Roman coliseum.



I was tempted to say "naked", but I like your one-liner better. :)


Here's a nice Christian.

I think Ghandi got it right.


Maybe, but I'd have liked it better if Ghandi didn't regularly drink his own urine. Some day, when I shave my head and become a renunciant, I think I'll skip the urine part.

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Let's not forget the first ammendment - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

I don't know of any law respecting an establishment of religion - do you?



Ah, so the crux of the matter here is that as long as there is no LAW that established a national religion, it's fine for the majority to establish a de facto one and create other laws that may go against the religious (or non-religious) views of the minority?

No. Religion should have as much to do with our political system as it does with mathematics or physics. That is to say, none. It should NEVER be a consideration when making laws or national policy.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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>I used to fly with a guy who made a big deal about going to church every
>Sunday. But when we had overnights he was the first one in the bar and always
>found the strip clubs.

Why does that make him a hypocrite? I've been in churches quite a lot over the years and I've never heard a priest say "don't go to bars or strip clubs."

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>I used to fly with a guy who made a big deal about going to church every
>Sunday. But when we had overnights he was the first one in the bar and always
>found the strip clubs.

Why does that make him a hypocrite? I've been in churches quite a lot over the years and I've never heard a priest say "don't go to bars or strip clubs."



He's a hypocrite because he wouldn't want his priest or fellow parishioners to know about it. For sure they wouldn't approve about the strip clubs.

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7. What does adultery mean? It means what it always meant; cheating on your spouse. Jesus carried it one step further when commenting on this commandment. He said, “whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt.5: 28) In our age of easy access to sex, the commandment applies to much that goes for entertainment in the year 2000.



http://www.essortment.com/all/commandmentlist_rrbp.htm

in case you need the rulebook explained, or is this just a viewpoint?
Born ok 1st time.

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Religion should have as much to do with our political system as it does with mathematics or physics. That is to say, none. It should NEVER be a consideration when making laws or national policy.



Environmentalism should have as much to do with our political system as it does with mathematics or physics. That is to say, none. It should NEVER be a consideration when making laws or national policy

Junk Science should have as much to do with our political system as it does with mathematics or physics. That is to say, none. It should NEVER be a consideration when making laws or national policy

Class envy should have as much to do with our political system as it does with mathematics or physics. That is to say, none. It should NEVER be a consideration when making laws or national policy

"Feelings" should have as much to do with our political system as it does with mathematics or physics. That is to say, none. It should NEVER be a consideration when making laws or national policy

Love of owning stuff should have as much to do with our political system as it does with mathematics or physics. That is to say, none. It should NEVER be a consideration when making laws or national policy

Racial identity should have as much to do with our political system as it does with mathematics or physics. That is to say, none. It should NEVER be a consideration when making laws or national policy

Charity should have as much to do with our political system as it does with mathematics or physics. That is to say, none. It should NEVER be a consideration when making laws or national policy



I agree with you - but it's more broadly interpreted to other areas as well. But, it happens in all of them even when it makes little sense or, even, causes more harm to society as a whole.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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You don't have to be one to answer. I just want answers from the heart. The Christians that you have meet what do you think of them?



I look at them the same as I look at everybody else; as individuals. Labels mean very little to me; unless someone is consistently extra goofy.

I mean if somebody is a fundamentalist, thinks the world will end in 2012, the moon landing was faked, Planet X is hiding behind the Sun, the Illuminati rule the world, Bush ordered the 911 bombings, and every other heap of ridiculously silly notion that the average 6th grader can refute - then yes - goofy is as goofy thinks.

Other than such extremes, accept if you can, tolerate if that is all you are capable of.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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