This Country is Coming Apart at Its Seams.

[RhondaLea 4]

Quote

Quote

"thinly-veiled personal attack"

The English language is one of the most flexible of languages, and it will allow you to do all manner of ad hom without ever looking someone in the eye and calling him a weasel.

You mean like in the last sentence above where you used a "thinly-veiled personal attack" to call me a "weasel"?

Now, I'm nearly certain you didn't mean to do that, so I'm not actually calling you hypocritical for doing it, but using that as a perfect example of how some folks get their panties in a bunch by identifying with the collective.

To paraphrase Carly Simon, "you probably think this post is about you."

Well, it's not. (Most of the time anyway.)

Well done. You're right. I wasn't calling you a weasel, and when I read the very first line of your response (without finishing your post--another object lesson; thank you very much), I was immediately off and running with the explanation that "blah, blah, blah, didn't think it, wouldn't say it, wouldn't even imply it, because it isn't true, blah, blah, blah." Of course, then I finished reading, and I had to delete three paragraphs, but hey, the time wasted is my own damn fault.

Still, it would be nice if you (collectively) would give a little more consideration when composing to the possible misinterpretation of your words. My "weasel" remark is a perfect example, given that it never occurred to me that it could be taken the way you didn't take it.

Unfortunately, even if I take you at your word that you were not calling Dr. Bordson a paranoid, I can't retract what I wrote earlier, because I see a lot of it in here. Repeatedly.

rl

Bonus link:

http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

And there is a name for them; PARANOID.

Ah, yes. Anyone who disagrees with you must be wearing tin foil hats? Right?

So much easier to just throw that accusation around repeatedly, rather than actually discussing things.

Exactly, they would rather infer or directly state that Karen is some right wing zealot instead of actually listening to her point of view.

The Nazis were very good at that same tactic, if someone spoke out they would call them lunatics, paranoid, unpatriotic, and anything else they could in order to turn public sentiment against them.

We all know what happened after the people quit asking questions and began blindly following.

[dks13827 3]

my kids are grown now but I would not want them to hear this proposed speech. In other times, I would have welcomed the President telling kids to work hard in school and LEARN SOMETHING !! Nowadays, this President is treated as the great salvation !! the Messiah who can do no wrong. IMO, he has never done anything legitimate in his life. No real job, ever !!!! So please, leave ME, my family, and my friends alone, thank you very much.

[FallingOsh 0]

Although I disagree with nearly every word that comes out of his mouth, I don't see what the big deal is. I think issues like these are where the right (and the left for that matter) lose credibility. There's plenty of important stuff to argue about. I wouldn't mind my child having the opportunity to see/meet a sitting President.

That said, I think it should be entirely up to the parents to decide if their child will go. Why not have the President talk after school hours? Then academic time wouldn't be wasted on politics but parents could still send their kids to see the President.


EDIT: As far as the OP goes, I find it equally rediculous that you would say the country is falling apart because parents might not want their kids listening to people they don't agree with.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[RhondaLea 4]

Quote

The Nazis were very good at that same tactic,

Godwin!

Everyone here is doing what you're describing, btw, so every one of you (i.e., us) is a damned paranoid Nazi.

How's that for political hysteria?

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[quade 4]

Pfft. Socialist is the new Nazi. Nazi is so, 2008.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

The Nazis were very good at that same tactic,

Godwin!

Everyone here is doing what you're describing, btw, so every one of you (i.e., us) is a damned paranoid Nazi.

How's that for political hysteria?

It isn't Godwins if it is true and to the point.

They were in fact very good at vilifying certain groups and individuals for their beliefs and many other things.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I have had people claim I am a Nazi and actually attack me for it.

Of course, that did not turn out well for them

[mpohl 1]

I did not say anything to the effect that, "[...] the country is falling apart because parents might not want their kids listening to people they don't agree with."
However, I do believe that the country is falling apart because there is no civility left in political discourse and, for that matter, in most other discourses.

There used to be a time when an election year lasted, well, at most a year. And after that the newly elected President was the President of all Americans. These days he can't even give a 15-min. speech to school-aged children w/o being compared to North Korea's dictator, Hitler, etc.

So, again: What happened to the UNITED in the United States of America?

Quote

Although I disagree with nearly every word that comes out of his mouth, I don't see what the big deal is. I think issues like these are where the right (and the left for that matter) lose credibility. There's plenty of important stuff to argue about. I wouldn't mind my child having the opportunity to see/meet a sitting President.

That said, I think it should be entirely up to the parents to decide if their child will go. Why not have the President talk after school hours? Then academic time wouldn't be wasted on politics but parents could still send their kids to see the President.


EDIT: As far as the OP goes, I find it equally rediculous that you would say the country is falling apart because parents might not want their kids listening to people they don't agree with.

[RhondaLea 4]

Quote

Pfft. Socialist is the new Nazi. Nazi is so, 2008.

So I take it you're bucking for your shot at immorality* with "Quade's Law"?


*A momentary lapse into low humor. Worse yet, it'll probably happen again.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[RhondaLea 4]

Quote

It isn't Godwins if it is true and to the point.

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

Pfft. Socialist is the new Nazi. Nazi is so, 2008.

So I take it you're bucking for your shot at immorality with "Quade's Law"?

No. I wouldn't call it a "law"; addendum perhaps.

If you decide to stick around this cesspool of enlightenment, I'm sure you'll see the trend.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mpohl 1]

Too lazy to look on wiki or Encyclopedia Britannica, or my old grad school textbooks.

Please refresh my memory: what does Quade' Law (aka Quade's Addendum) state?

Quote

Quote

Quote

Pfft. Socialist is the new Nazi. Nazi is so, 2008.

So I take it you're bucking for your shot at immorality with "Quade's Law"?

No. I wouldn't call it a "law"; addendum perhaps.

If you decide to stick around this cesspool of enlightenment, I'm sure you'll see the trend.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Do you know where the Nazi's learned to be so adept at this behavior?

Right here in the USA during the late 20's and early 30's

Forced sterilization, involuntary internment of the untermenchen and so on.

They just got better at it that is all.

Kind of like how they did with cars and railroads.

[RhondaLea 4]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Pfft. Socialist is the new Nazi. Nazi is so, 2008.

So I take it you're bucking for your shot at immorality with "Quade's Law"?

No. I wouldn't call it a "law"; addendum perhaps.

If you decide to stick around this cesspool of enlightenment, I'm sure you'll see the trend.

In theory, I should avoid posting to usenet until I get out from under the lawsuit in which I'm currently a defendant. Someone infinitely wiser than me suggested I head on over to the DailyKos for my fix of controversy, but I truly don't enjoy what passes for political discussion these days.

Here, at least, I don't have to think very hard when I construct a post--and if that's not a damning indictment of Speaker's Corner, I don't know what is.

But "Quade's Addendum" doesn't have quite the ring of "Quade's Law" so I think you should shoot higher. OTOH, you could always buck for "Quade's Immortal Addendum to Godwin's Law."

Yeah. I like that. It has a nice ring to it.

Edited to add: No. Make it: "Quade's Immortal Corollary to Godwin's Law."

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[mpohl 1]

Not sure what you are smoking, dude.
But you really should lay off of it.

Or are you texting and driving?

Quote

Do you know where the Nazi's learned to be so adept at this behavior?

Right here in the USA during the late 20's and early 30's

Forced sterilization, involuntary internment of the untermenchen and so on.

They just got better at it that is all.

Kind of like how they did with cars and railroads.

[point_code 0]

I don't like Obama, I don't trust him, and in my opinion he has failed miserably as a president. Granted, he hasn't done it all on his own because he's had plenty of help from some of the other idiots in Washington. If you don't agree thats fine. You obviously have a differing opinion and I do respect it so long as you don't preach to me about how you are right and I am wrong.

I send my kids to school to get an education, not listen to politicians. I don't know the amount of taxpayer dollars that are being spent on this but I'm guessing its probably obscene. The school where my kids attend has received so many calls in opposition of this that they are offering "Alternative Activities" for those students whose parents do not want them to attend. I applaud this decision and hope that other schools across the country are doing the same thing.

My boys won't be taking part in this event and they are also excused from saying the pledge of allegiance in spanish (yes this happens)

I think the good news here is that parents still have some say in what their children are exposed to in school. I am glad that other parents have voiced their opposition and I hope those voices are heard in Washington.

If I've offended you I apologize. If your opinion is different I respect it. If you are a parent and don't like this then call the school and politely let them know.

[quade 4]

Quote

I don't know the amount of taxpayer dollars that are being spent on this but I'm guessing its probably obscene.

Really? Obscene? The communications office is bought and paid for whether they're working or not. The satellite distribution is via CSpan, which is paid for by donations from cable TV operators across the country.

My guess is that the total incremental cost for this is a rounding error for The White House communications budget.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[point_code 0]

That's why it was a GUESS and not stated as fact. I do however doubt that by the time this is all said and done it will be "free" to the taxpayers

[quade 4]

Quote

That's why it was a GUESS and not stated as fact. I do however doubt that by the time this is all said and done that it will be "free" to the taxpayers

I didn't say "free."

It is, however, part of normal operating expenses and within the normal budget.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kbordson 8]

Quote

I did not say anything to the effect that, "[...] the country is falling apart because parents might not want their kids listening to people they don't agree with."
However, I do believe that the country is falling apart because there is no civility left in political discourse and, for that matter, in most other discourses.

Agreed.

Quote

There used to be a time when an election year lasted, well, at most a year. And after that the newly elected President was the President of all Americans. These days he can't even give a 15-min. speech to school-aged children w/o being compared to North Korea's dictator, Hitler, etc.

So, again: What happened to the UNITED in the United States of America?

Disagree.

I dug out some of my papers from that course. (yes, I saved notes from

Notes from the very first day:

What is Rhetoric?
A. Popular Misusage - negative and used by "other party."
B. Traditional Usage
-two main disciplines in history: Rhetoric and Philosophy
-Neither good nor bad. Just there. Everyone uses it.
Examples - a pastor to congregation, Bush to the public
-The use of language to try to influence the ideas, beliefs or actions of other people.
-Kenneth Burke: "The use of words by human agents to form attitudes or induce actions in other human agents."



The course proceeded to examine:

Part I American Revolution
Whigs lead protests and revolutions. This was NOT a large group of men (only approx 10%) actively involved in the revolution, doubtful if even a majority of Colonist were in favor of independence.
Stamp Act. Dulany's considerations Townshend Duties. Dickinson's Farmers Letters Tea Act 1773 - Boston Tea Party. "Conspiracy Theory" and "paranoia" culminated in The Coercive Acts/The Intolerable Acts. Thomas Paine's Common Sense

Created a reduced ground for compromise.
-good v. evil
-liberty v. power


Part II The Abolitionist Movement and it's impact on the Civil War

Part III Civil Rights Movement Speeches/ Rhetoric

Other topics of American Rhetoric to consider (not included in that course)

Joseph McCarthy and the "Red Scare"

War Speeches: World War I and II Rhetoric, Vietnam Rhetoric

Medical/ Health care rhetoric

Labor Movement rhetoric

Quote

What happened to the UNITED in the United States of America?

Look above - This country has rarely been "United." There are conflicting thoughts. But with that, we GROW. We challenge. We resist. We follow.

Some question. Some accept.

Why be so worried about it just now? Is it because you don't want to hear the dissent against the President that you "like" or the one that you "picked." Is it that you didn't hear it in the 90's (although re-reading my notes... the distrust was even there)

So, is the country coming apart at the seams? Not anymore than it was in the 50's or the 1860's. (ok... in the 1860's it actually almost did come apart)

[Beachbum 0]

Quote

No solution needed as there is no problem. The Prez is to give a short pep talk on staying in school and getting an education. Some who dislike him consider that indoctrination.

An awful lot of serious bickering going on for "no problem" ... LOL!!! What I suggested would have taken care of all the concerns I've seen addressed by those with reservations (which I share) about a pres mandating an audience with school kids. From what I have read, for some it may be just because of the "who", but for others like myself it is more about the concept itself than the content of the intended speech.

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[shropshire 0]

Also bear in mind that 'most' govenments oft repeated statement "You're either with us or against us'..... we heard that a lot over recent years.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 2,989]

>Exactly, they would rather infer or directly state that Karen is
>some right wing zealot . . .

So let's see if I understand your point. "They" would rather just call Karen names instead of discussing things rationally, and that makes them just like Nazis.

Do you see any logical contradictions in your statement?

[FallingOsh 0]

Quote

I did not say anything to the effect that, "[...] the country is falling apart because parents might not want their kids listening to people they don't agree with."
However, I do believe that the country is falling apart because there is no civility left in political discourse and, for that matter, in most other discourses.

Meh. We have yet to see congress throw down, asian style, over a disagreement. Pundits run their mouths over rediculousness in the name of ratings. I wouldn't call it respectable, but lack of civility is pushing it.

Quote

There used to be a time when an election year lasted, well, at most a year. And after that the newly elected President was the President of all Americans.

When exactly was that? FDR era, Nixon era... Reagan..? Certainly wasn't the JFK era.

Quote

These days he can't even give a 15-min. speech to school-aged children w/o being compared to North Korea's dictator, Hitler, etc.

By people on internet forums and a few kooks on tv. The same people who called Bush a lying murderer.

Quote

So, again: What happened to the UNITED in the United States of America?

Being the United States doesn't mean we should all just fall in line with whatever the government says. I would say it means the exact opposite.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.