I Suppose We Should Thank Joe Wilson

[mnealtx 0]

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I need the rolling eyes to reply to you but, since there is not one here I will laugh

So you and Turtle have copies of secret plans to provide health care to illegal aliens, but you can't reveal these to the rest of us?

When are y'all going to show that coverage is not provided? The section you quoted was about a subsidy, not coverage.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,006]

>What part of section 246 don't you get, it appears very obvious
>that illegal aliens wont get coverage the way the bills are worded?

Only in the reality-based community. This discussion reminds me of a comment from one of the previous president's aides:

Liberals are "in what we call the reality-based community," people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality. That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality."

[ryoder 1,590]

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I need the rolling eyes to reply to you but, since there is not one here I will laugh

So you and Turtle have copies of secret plans to provide health care to illegal aliens, but you can't reveal these to the rest of us?

When are y'all going to show that coverage is not provided? The section you quoted was about a subsidy, not coverage.

I provided the docs; YOU show me where it says it will cover illegal aliens.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 3,006]

>When are y'all going to show that coverage is not provided?

If you won't believe the text of the bill perhaps you'll believe one of your own. From the conservative news service, CNS:

"It is true that both the House and Senate health care bills as they are now drafted would make illegal aliens ineligible for federally funded health care."

[mnealtx 0]

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I need the rolling eyes to reply to you but, since there is not one here I will laugh

So you and Turtle have copies of secret plans to provide health care to illegal aliens, but you can't reveal these to the rest of us?

When are y'all going to show that coverage is not provided? The section you quoted was about a subsidy, not coverage.

I provided the docs; YOU show me where it says it will cover illegal aliens.

Um, no.

YOU need to show where coverage is not being provided. The section quoted concerns a payment subsidy, not coverage.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[MakeItHappen 15]

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He said, "The reforms . . . the reforms I am proposing would not apply to those that are here illegally."

That is a lie.

I provided a link that says it is true.
Please provide evidence to the contrary.

Edited to add full text of HR 3200:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

Try this explanation
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/08/27/cnn-truth-squad-will-health-bill-pay-for-illegal-immigrants-an-update/

I think it depends upon how you state something about the illegals as to whether or not the 'bill' applies.
BTW, there are 3 or 4 versions still floating around and they may be different.

Wilson violated proper decorum, but not to such an extent that he should be removed.

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.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[rushmc 23]

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I need the rolling eyes to reply to you but, since there is not one here I will laugh

So you and Turtle have copies of secret plans to provide health care to illegal aliens, but you can't reveal these to the rest of us?

In both the house and senate Republicans offered amendments that would have made no health care for illeagals air tight. Both halls voted down the amendment along party lines (and surprise surprise ABC just reported this)

Eyes wide shut vs eyes wide open my friend, eyes wide open

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Both the House and Senate health care bills as they are now drafted would make illegal aliens ineligible for federally funded health care.

And that IS that.

I need the rolling eyes to reply to you but, since there is not one here I will laugh

Come now, Kallend said it, it has to be taken as God's word now.

Hmmm, I thought that was billvons role

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,006]

>The Republicans seem to need to have their mouths publicly washed
>out with a bar of Ivory Soap.

Well, to be fair, one does. Perhaps a few who are trying to drown out any attempt at bipartisanship with sheer noise. But the majority of republicans are a lot more reasonable than that. Obama put it pretty well yesterday:

"On the republican side, there are wonderful people who really operate on the principles of pragmatism, common sense and getting things done. And those voices have been, I think, shouted down."

I think the tide is starting to turn, and the people who scream at the president, accuse him of lies and deceptions while they themselves are doing their level best to deceive people, are getting more and more marginalized. Hopefully the majority of reasonable people, democrats and republicans alike, will start giving them the attention they deserve (i.e. none.)

[Para_Frog 1]

What Wilson did showed a lack of class and discipline.

Neither party has the market cornered on either.

Gut congress now. They are not the people.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[billvon 3,006]

>Hmmm, I thought that was billvons role

No, I'm just a minor has-been deity, like Hermes.

[rushmc 23]

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>Hmmm, I thought that was billvons role

No, I'm just a minor has-been deity, like Hermes.

Good, very good

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,006]

>Gut congress now. They are not the people.

How about we just gut Congress (and both parties) of the loudmouths, the liars and the extremists, and let the more reasonable parts continue doing their jobs.

[rushmc 23]

He is not backing down either.

Good for him!

Again, I view his outburst as being in poor taste and disrespectful regardless.

But, Wilson is the one telling the truth

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32767813/ns/politics-health_care_reform/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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>Gut congress now. They are not the people.

How about we just gut Congress (and both parties) of the loudmouths, the liars and the extremists, and let the more reasonable parts continue doing their jobs.

So, that would be 75% of Dems and 40% of Repulicans?

No, lets go 80 80. That would be a better start anyway

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[georgerussia 0]

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When are y'all going to show that coverage is not provided? The section you quoted was about a subsidy, not coverage.

They will be able get coverage by paying a full price (without government subsidy), or pay cash for services as they can do right now. Why wouldn't you provide coverage for those who paid for it?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[billvon 3,006]

>He is not backing down either.

Wilson: "my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the president for this lack of civility."

>But, Wilson is the one telling the truth

============
CNS
Thursday, September 10, 2009
By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief

(CNSNews.com) - In his speech to a joint session of Congress last night, President Obama said that his health care reform plan will not insure “illegal immigrants.” The statement instantly became a matter of controversy when Rep. Joe Wilson (R.-S.C.) yelled out in the House chamber, “You lie.”

Wilson has since apologized for his outburst.

But President Obama’s statement about illegal aliens and health care reform deserves further scrutiny.

“There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants,” said Obama. “This, too, is false. The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.”

It is true that both the House and Senate health care bills as they are now drafted would make illegal aliens ineligible for federally funded health care.
==============
August 27, 2009
CNN Truth Squad: Will health bill pay for illegal immigrants? An update
Posted: August 27th, 2009 01:32 AM ET

The statement:

Complaints that those in the United States illegally would get benefits under the health-care bill now before the House of Representatives have been a staple of the raucous public meetings some members of Congress have been hosting during their August break. . .

. . . .

The verdict:

False. A new report finds the bill could require illegal immigrants to buy coverage, but it clearly restricts subsidies to U.S. citizens and legal residents.
===============

[lawrocket 3]

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[That is the same HR 3200 I referenced, and includes:

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SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
not lawfully present in the United States.

So what is your point???

Here is what this means:
(1) The Federal Government will not subsidize illegal immigrants so that they may afford the private insurance;

Section 246 has been cited - but it's context must be explained. Section 241(b)(3) provides that even before these "affordability credits" are offered, the individuals are screened for Medicaid and if eligible, are put on Medicaid.

Sec. 242(a)(1) states that "the term ‘‘affordable credit eligible individual’’ means, subject to subsection (b), an individual who is lawfully present in a State in the United States..."

So what it says is:
- They are creating a health insurance "Exchange"
- Persons with income at less that 400% of the poverty level for that sized family will be eligible for a subsidized "credit" to afford the insurance/public option.
- Before they even get to that point, they determine whether the person is eligible for Medicaid and sent there

Under current law, undocumented immigrants are eligible for emergency medical services funded by MEDICAID!

So, what this does is absolutely nothing. Since illegal immigrants are already covered by Medicaid for emergency care, they will simply stay on Medicaid.

Gee - this is a big change, ain't it?

Big point - HR 3200 doesn't cover undocumented immigrants. Because Medicaid covers them.

Single payor, eh?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billeisele 130]

things are getting a little slow here in SC, we need a good political controversy

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[lawrocket 3]

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When are y'all going to show that coverage is not provided? The section you quoted was about a subsidy, not coverage.

They will be able get coverage by paying a full price (without government subsidy), or pay cash for services as they can do right now. Why wouldn't you provide coverage for those who paid for it?

No. They will get coverage the same way they have for the last 20 years - go to an emergency room and have Medicaid pay for it.

Shipping folks off to Medicaid is explicit in the bill. This is how HR 3200 will make it affordable - by taking only people who can pay (and subsidizing those who can pay most of it) while sending everyone else to Medicaid, which will increase its rolls.

This bill limits its eligibility to ensure that its costs can be kept under a trillion. It ships the big costs off to Medicaid and Medicare, which covers the people who need it right now, anyway.

So it does nothing except kill private health insurance. Even the President is making sure he limits his promises about being able to keep our insurance if we like it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Channman 2]

And to think for the last few hours I was thinking Wison was a Hero, my bad.

GWB State of the Union 2005 was Booed by the Democrats, no outrage from the Left Wing. I therefore have no outrage for a member of congress only stating the obvious.

As for Joe Wilson's chances for re-election I think he will do just fine.

[georgerussia 0]

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No. They will get coverage the same way they have for the last 20 years - go to an emergency room and have Medicaid pay for it.

Yes, but this is not something provided by the bill. It has been a while for quite long time, and there is little could be done unless the existing law changes the way that any illegal immigrant arriving in ER gets a free bus ticked to Mexico.

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So it does nothing except kill private health insurance. Even the President is making sure he limits his promises about being able to keep our insurance if we like it.

Disagree. The most important thing the bill does is to ensure that those who have income, but prefer not to buy health insurance, would be forced to buy it, and will not go uninsured.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[pirana 0]

I think it is a symptom of how sharply divided we are right now in general. I mean, at every opportunity people throw out the labels as a standard part of every insult, as part of every objection, even just in passing comments.

Look at this fiasco over the Obama presentation. All he is looking to do is throw his weight and influence behind the idea that kids should get the best education they can; and people turn it into a partisan issue.

They are more concerned with image and superficial BS than fundamental principles and the common good. 'Yes, it's good to stay in school and get an education, but we don't want them to hear it from a Democrat.' What kind of lame BS is that?

So now we have to engrain partisan politics into elementary students because when they are ready to see the speech some certain group of kids will be getting up and leaving the room. Nice fucking result. And I'm guessing there will be some truly ignorant parents on both ends who will have something to say to their kids about the kids who did not do the same as their's.

Truly pathetic. Instead of emphasizing education, we are emphasizing the importance of partisan politics. I'm more worried about the legacy we are building for our kids than the miscreant behaviors of professional politicians - who are pretty much lost causes already.

I think the best thing that could happen to the average politician would be to have a near death experience that results in some sort of epiphany that causes them to stop behaving like the narrow-minded self-serving assholes that they are and start behaving as if the public interest was their real job.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rushmc 23]

CNN and "truth" in the same sentence should have made out computer explode

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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When are y'all going to show that coverage is not provided? The section you quoted was about a subsidy, not coverage.

They will be able get coverage by paying a full price (without government subsidy), or pay cash for services as they can do right now. Why wouldn't you provide coverage for those who paid for it?

No. They will get coverage the same way they have for the last 20 years - go to an emergency room and have Medicaid pay for it.

Shipping folks off to Medicaid is explicit in the bill. This is how HR 3200 will make it affordable - by taking only people who can pay (and subsidizing those who can pay most of it) while sending everyone else to Medicaid, which will increase its rolls.

This bill limits its eligibility to ensure that its costs can be kept under a trillion. It ships the big costs off to Medicaid and Medicare, which covers the people who need it right now, anyway.

So it does nothing except kill private health insurance. Even the President is making sure he limits his promises about being able to keep our insurance if we like it.

Ok, so, in the context you post to here, how do they square the fact that they say they will take (or be able to take) 500 million or billion (cant remember which) from Medicare?

Fuzzy math?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln