Buy insurance or face the IRS and or jail.

[akarunway 1]

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?showall Can this possibly happen? So. How does this work? If you are poor you get free healthcare and if you are rich or a member of congress no worries? So. Who gets hit? The middle class family who may or may not want it or can't afford it. This is plain crazy. This bill can't possibly pass. I had insurance thru my union (shitty for 1000 a month) but since I haven't worked in 15 months I guess I'll get mine in jail. Do they have a dental/vision plan there too.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[rushmc 23]

Hope and change we can live (in jail) with.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

The only way they can force people to ger insurance is to threaten them with jail, prison, etc. That and larger fines.

This means a couple of things. The first is to jail the poor. Some posters here bleed for those who simply have no money for insurance. Of course if they buy it then they could have afforded it all along. If they can't they will be jailed - the ultimate in socialist utopia!

The other option is that they get heavily subsidized such that it is free for them. And costing multiple trillions ove the next decade.

Either way, it's what the Great Society demands. Amen!

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Some posters here bleed for those who simply have no money for insurance.

Just as some posters are in denial about the existence of such impoverished people.

On topic, the only practical way to keep premiums from skyrocketing if insurance companies are forced provide coverage to all applicants, regardless of preexisting conditions, is to mandate coverage. Otherwise, an influx of preexisting conditions into the pool of insured persons will lead to increased premiums. This will lead some low risk persons to elect to drop of coverage, further increasing the overall risk of the pool of insured persons. This, in turn, leads to further increasing premiums, which leads to more low risk persons electing to drop coverage, which leads to ….

The only practical way to mandate coverage is to subsidize the premiums for those who can't afford to pay them on their own.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Some posters here bleed for those who simply have no money for insurance.

Just as some posters are in denial about the existence of such impoverished people.
who?
On topic, the only practical way to keep premiums from skyrocketing if insurance companies are forced provide coverage to all applicants, regardless of preexisting conditions, is to mandate coverage. Otherwise, an influx of preexisting conditions into the pool of insured persons will lead to increased premiums. This will lead some low risk persons to elect to drop of coverage, further increasing the overall risk of the pool of insured persons. This, in turn, leads to further increasing premiums, which leads to more low risk persons electing to drop coverage, which leads to ….

The only practical way to mandate coverage is to subsidize the premiums for those who can't afford to pay them on their own.

No, this is government in control way. Nothing "practical" about it. And in this scenario, prices will go up

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

No, this is government in control way. Nothing "practical" about it. And in this scenario, prices will go up

You're right. Those actuaries (who worked for insurance companies) that gave the presentations I had to sit through probably knew nothing about how accepting preexisting conditions would affect underwriting and premium costs.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?showall Can this possibly happen? So. How does this work? If you are poor you get free healthcare and if you are rich or a member of congress no worries? So. Who gets hit? The middle class family who may or may not want it or can't afford it. This is plain crazy. This bill can't possibly pass. I had insurance thru my union (shitty for 1000 a month) but since I haven't worked in 15 months I guess I'll get mine in jail. Do they have a dental/vision plan there too.

If you haven't worked, you will be one of the poor and will get healthcare provided.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

The only way they can force people to ger insurance is to threaten them with jail, prison, etc. That and larger fines.

This means a couple of things. The first is to jail the poor. Some posters here bleed for those who simply have no money for insurance. Of course if they buy it then they could have afforded it all along. If they can't they will be jailed - the ultimate in socialist utopia!

The other option is that they get heavily subsidized such that it is free for them. And costing multiple trillions ove the next decade.

Either way, it's what the Great Society demands. Amen!

And some people bleed for the wealthy.

No, jailing is for the compassionate conservatives, they can run teh contract for the prisons and make money.

Multiple trillions over the next decade; any misinformation is good misinformation.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?showall Can this possibly happen? So. How does this work? If you are poor you get free healthcare and if you are rich or a member of congress no worries? So. Who gets hit? The middle class family who may or may not want it or can't afford it. This is plain crazy. This bill can't possibly pass. I had insurance thru my union (shitty for 1000 a month) but since I haven't worked in 15 months I guess I'll get mine in jail. Do they have a dental/vision plan there too.

If you haven't worked, you will be one of the poor and will get healthcare provided.

I never used my healthcare in 7 yrs. now. Cepting the 1000 dollar dentist bill (I had to pay half) in Jan. before it ran out. Givin the bastards, ah, roughly 84K and fuck me since Im outta work. Damned if ya do and damned if ya don't I guess. Guess I should be happy I didn't need it.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?showall Can this possibly happen? So. How does this work? If you are poor you get free healthcare and if you are rich or a member of congress no worries? So. Who gets hit? The middle class family who may or may not want it or can't afford it. This is plain crazy. This bill can't possibly pass. I had insurance thru my union (shitty for 1000 a month) but since I haven't worked in 15 months I guess I'll get mine in jail. Do they have a dental/vision plan there too.

If you haven't worked, you will be one of the poor and will get healthcare provided.

I never used my healthcare in 7 yrs. now. Cepting the 1000 dollar dentist bill (I had to pay half) in Jan. before it ran out. Givin the bastards, ah, roughly 84K and fuck me since Im outta work. Damned if ya do and damned if ya don't I guess. Guess I should be happy I didn't need it.

And we'll all be happy if a guy in your position or in my position gets HC provided. This could take conservatives like you and make them reluctant liberals.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

So. Who gets hit? The middle class family who may or may not want it or can't afford it.

Those who cannot afford it, will get it subsidized, or for free.

Those who may not want it, will have to pay for it - unfortunately we cannot have them signing waivers where they admit that if they get sick, they'll silently die and will not end up in ER without paying for it. This means that they just do not want to pay for it, but still want to use it. For those people it's ok for me to force them to buy it.

I do not like the idea of paying for someone's else health insurance, but we're doing it now anyway - including those who just do not want to pay for it, and still end up receiving care.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Lefty 0]

So unless the government option is always the best and cheapest (which I'm assured won't happen...competition, right?), we'll be compelled to purchase the product of the same insurance companies who are being demonized by the politicians?

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[tkhayes 348]

which is exactly why the 'insurance plan' is not going to work. Does not matter what people are offered, many will not pay for it, even if it is/was $1/month.

SINGLE PAYER HEAL:TH CARE< paid for through corporate and individual income taxes. Expand Medicare to cover all and pay for it in the tax system. Simple Straightforward, everyone pays.

THen the IRS is not dealing with you when you do not 'buy insurance', they are dealing with you when you do not pay your taxes, same as they do today.

[JCW1966 0]

So with unemployment being the highest it has been in a long time and more people finding themselves homeless our gov't wants to make it illegal to not have medical insurance?

What a joke.

Where are they going to keep all the offenders? Most jails and prisons are overcrowded now.

So is this how Obama plans on fixing the economy by having to build more jails and hire more people to guard those who are criminals because they don't have medical insurance?

Doesn't sound like too good of a plan to me.

[jclalor 12]

Quote

Quote

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?showall">***http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?showall Can this possibly happen? So. How does this work? If you are poor you get free healthcare and if you are rich or a member of congress no worries? So. Who gets hit? The middle class family who may or may not want it or can't afford it. This is plain crazy. This bill can't possibly pass. I had insurance thru my union (shitty for 1000 a month) but since I haven't worked in 15 months I guess I'll get mine in jail. Do they have a dental/vision plan there too.

You posted this on a supposed note? You should have better sources.

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?showall">***http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?showall Can this possibly happen? So. How does this work? If you are poor you get free healthcare and if you are rich or a member of congress no worries? So. Who gets hit? The middle class family who may or may not want it or can't afford it. This is plain crazy. This bill can't possibly pass. I had insurance thru my union (shitty for 1000 a month) but since I haven't worked in 15 months I guess I'll get mine in jail. Do they have a dental/vision plan there too.

You posted this on a supposed note? You should have better sources.

A "supposed note". Where did you read that? Re-read the article, it's short but I think you missed something or are trying to read between the lines.

[kallend 2,108]

Quote

So with unemployment being the highest it has been in a long time and more people finding themselves homeless our gov't wants to make it illegal to not have medical insurance?

What a joke.

Where are they going to keep all the offenders? Most jails and prisons are overcrowded now.

So is this how Obama plans on fixing the economy by having to build more jails and hire more people to guard those who are criminals because they don't have medical insurance?

Doesn't sound like too good of a plan to me.

I guess you didn't read or understand this.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[FallingOsh 0]

Quote

SINGLE PAYER HEAL:TH CARE< paid for through corporate and individual income taxes. Expand Medicare to cover all and pay for it in the tax system. Simple Straightforward, everyone pays.

Why wouldn't the corporations just pass along the tax hikes making everything more expensive? What would keep healthcare costs from continuing to increase?

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

SINGLE PAYER HEAL:TH CARE< paid for through corporate and individual income taxes. Expand Medicare to cover all and pay for it in the tax system. Simple Straightforward, everyone pays.

So what if I already have insurance? Do my taxes still go up anyway?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

SINGLE PAYER HEAL:TH CARE< paid for through corporate and individual income taxes. Expand Medicare to cover all and pay for it in the tax system. Simple Straightforward, everyone pays.

So what if I already have insurance? Do my taxes still go up anyway?

I've proposed this before; spending and taxation have no relationship other than bond measures.

- Reagan raised spending and cut taxes

- GHWB cut spending and raised taxes

- Clinton cut spending and raised taxes

- GWB raised spending and cut taxes.

If anything, there is an inverse relationship between taxes and spending. And as well, I'm SURE massive overspending on the military as we now have is no problem.

And if they do decide to put a tax increase in the HC Bill for people who hold real high-dollar insurance policies, that's a tax on the rich, they should get used to it as they are going to be raining in regardless of the HC Bill.

Just as Clinton had 3 major goals, if not more, uni-care, education availability and raise taxes on the rich. He did 2 of 3 regardless of the others. YOU will not be taxed 1 penny for the HC Bill and you may at one time be advantaged by it.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

SINGLE PAYER HEAL:TH CARE< paid for through corporate and individual income taxes. Expand Medicare to cover all and pay for it in the tax system. Simple Straightforward, everyone pays.

Why wouldn't the corporations just pass along the tax hikes making everything more expensive? What would keep healthcare costs from continuing to increase?

There will be limits and cost controls for various operations/claims. Mostly, there will be reasonable caps, so jacking up costs won't help. While everyone is going out of business, the medical field is still doing well.

[justinb138 0]

Quote

There will be limits and cost controls for various operations/claims.

You mean like the National Debt Ceiling established in the Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917?

How many times have they voted not to raise the debt ceiling? Never?

Tell me something, if a limit is always raised to the point that it's never reached, is it still a limit?

[labrys 0]

I was going to write a well reasoned and rational response but damned if a great big chunk of the sky didn't fall right smack on the top of my head and knock me senseless.

Owned by Remi #?

[FallingOsh 0]

Quote

There will be limits and cost controls for various operations/claims. Mostly, there will be reasonable caps, so jacking up costs won't help.

So regardless of the cost of research, development, employee pay, etc you're going to just cap procedures? Maybe we should try some tort reform to fix the actual problems versus treating the symptoms, so to speak.

Quote

While everyone is going out of business, the medical field is still doing well.

1. You think because they're doing well then we should just cap procedure cost and that will fix the problem? Hospitals still have expenses regardless of how much you cap their income.

2. Define 'doing well.'

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977336182

http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/hospitals-see-string-bankruptcies-recent-weeks/2008-09-24

http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/content/235462/topic/WS_HLM2_HR/Hospitals-Cuts-May-Grow-as-States-Budget-Woes-Linger.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/28/hospitals-ill-from-more-b_n_153766.html

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[tkhayes 348]

Single Payer means one entity pays for the health care - typically, the government, like Medicare. Therefore you do not have 'private health insurance' anymore, you pay extra in income taxes instead.

When you go to the doctor, you do not fill out paperwork. You do not call for approvals, you do not worry about whether or not it is going to be paid for because it is. The doctor bills Medicare instead of your private insurance company, a process that is already in place today.

The doctor does not have to worry about getting 'screwed' by the insurance company, which happens today, because Medicare generally approves their claims. There are a few exceptions of course and there is still some level of an approval process for complex and costly treatments, even within Medicare, but generally speaking, the medical decisions are between YOU and your Doctor. The payment decisions are between you doctor and the government.

Current Medicare does have a lot of exceptions for coverage; prescriptions, dental, vision, etc. You can/could/would buy supplementary insurance if you feel you needed it to cover extra stuff. For stuff like that, it would be fairly cheap, like it is today already.

THey also have kidney dialysis, which is free fro anyone in the country regardless of age. States like Florida already have AIDS programs that cover the cost of treatment and drugs 100% in most cases. Programs like this all go away, they just fall under Medicare. You are sick - go to the doctor. Everyone pays through income tax.

Just like the military.
Just like Public education
just like the general funds that pay for roads and bridges
just like the general funds that pay for everything else that society relies on and is funded at a National level.

Or even have the option for the 'private option upgrade' that so many people seem to want. I pay for private insurance that gets me priority into a private run hospital for extra $$ if I can afford it. If I can't then I still can go to the hospital and get my surgery/repairs/whatever.