VFW members duct tape flag burner to flag pole

[Lucky... 0]

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Morph much?

Without posting what I wrote it's impossible to answeer. But I guess you don't have a point.

Is the air so thin up on your "I speak for the emasculated masses" soapbox that you can't remember whay you said and put it in proper context?
I'll sue!! I'll tell mommy!! I'll hold my breath!! Just different tantrums from the same 'somebody else take care of me' mindset.

In this situation the victims manned up and took care of things. The perpertrator manned up and took responsibility. I'm glad for both of them.

How is it that I speak for anyone emasculated or how have I been emasculated? Because I'm not a tough Republican? That's a joke. Dude, drop the R's tough / Dem's weak rhetoric, that went out when Reagan did nothing to counter the attacks on the Beirut barracks attack.

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I'll sue!! I'll tell mommy!! I'll hold my breath!! Just different tantrums from the same 'somebody else take care of me' mindset.

So getting a bunch of necks together and lynching is more manly than being a legal citizen? Law and order is a just a TV show and not reality. Self-directed violence is better than calm deliberation? They have a name for people who behave like you suggest; inmates. It's not that I couldn't act like an animal, it's that I choose not to.

In this situation the victims manned up and took care of things.

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We didn't hear from the other victim, so we don't really know, but it had a good ending for you so you're satisfied. And if he had been beaten while taped, you would still be ok with that.

***The perpertrator manned up and took responsibility.

Allegedly baased upon the thug's statement. Of course the fear of violence played a part.

[Lucky... 0]

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relax man

I live nearby.....the all clear horn has sounded on this one, the only brown shirts that are going to knock on our door are the UPS dudes...they're cool and they bring boxes of excellent free market produced goods.

How am I not relaxed? I'm just debating an issue. How does the free market play into a lynch mob nabbing a guy under the threat of violence?

[Misternatural 0]

The mention of the free market was anecdotally related to the benign nature of who is currently knocking on our doors....you fear a lynch mob society brewing- that does not make for a relaxing day for most people. You are arguing with a man who is large enough that he prolly has not gotten his ass kicked nor threatened nor out numbered by a group of other people recently so he doesn't see the need for police assistance at the moment. You are not going to win this one with him. I am on your side of the issue but you are endangering yourself of ambling down a road of paranoia and unmitigated lunacy if you continue because the event was in the grey zone of legality here and there are no provable definitive answers in the grey zone.

We just have to keep an eye on situations like this as they have proven to have the potential for escalation but in this case it is not even on the screen anymore, and I live here so I know.

I have to go hunt for dinner now,over.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[billvon 3,078]

>If man X is beating his wife, the neighbors call, the cops come out and
>the wife, obviously beaten says not to worry about it, she's ok with it.

Right. But if you are spanking your wife because she prefers it (and is OK with it, you talked about it beforehand) - should you be arrested? What crime have you committed?

[downwardspiral 0]

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Bill, are you actually up to speed on this entire story?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[futuredivot 0]

Ok, I'm just entertaining myself now but--

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Self-directed violence

According to the photographic evidence, he was sitting in a chair in a most nonviolent manner. Just restrained.

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And if he had been beaten while taped

Not while taped, but if he had elected to get beaten instead of restrained, I'd respect his choice then, also.

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Of course the fear of violence played a part.

And you KNOW that fear played a part or do you assume that it did? Lot's of us go days without basing a choice on feelings of fear.

Seeking assistance, aid, help, and comfort should always be an option but I'll never understand people who make it their PRIMARY option.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[rhaig 0]

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but in California a person is not allowed to do that simply by calling up the DMV.

have you ever seen sites like publicdata.com?

And did you read this bit on the front page of the web site you just linked?

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Use of information contained herein must be done in accordance with the agreed upon terms and conditions. Please be aware that many US lawmakers have made certain access to Public Records illegal and it is your responsibility to be aware of which Public Records you may view legally.

yeah... what's your point? That looking someone up by license plate might be illegal if anyone reported how they looked up such information.

Mine was that they didn't have to call up the DMV.

--
Rob

[Lucky... 0]

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According to the photographic evidence, he was sitting in a chair in a most nonviolent manner. Just restrained.

According to the lynch mob he was tracked down and given 3 choices of which at least 1 was violence. That's called coercion at the very least.

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Not while taped, but if he had elected to get beaten instead of restrained, I'd respect his choice then, also.

This follows my point; once the lynch mob offered to beat him, he was out of the eqquation and it all rested on the criminals who lynched him. And remember, we know 1 side of the story.

Again, what if beaten while taped and unable to defend himself, his captors off doing something else - not a big if really - then how would that play out in your mind? Was he endangered?

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And you KNOW that fear played a part or do you assume that it did? Lot's of us go days without basing a choice on feelings of fear.

The feelings of the caotured are not important, the captor admitted to giving 3 choices with at least 1 including violence, so that's all the prosecutor would need if they weren't all rednecked out.

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Seeking assistance, aid, help, and comfort should always be an option but I'll never understand people who make it their PRIMARY option.

I don't make it mine. If I were that kid or were there to help him handle this matter, I would have said to not let the nuts in, if they broke down the door to retreat to the back of the house and get a gun, if they persisted and imminent danger was obvious: shoot. Otherwise if they sat outside and were a nuisance, call the cops. If they hung around withthe intention of causing harm of abducting someone, call the cops. If they call the cops and make a complaint and the cops come out, cooperate and don't say a thing, get a lawyer and deal with that.

That is the civilized way to deal with this matter. People who think lynching is the best have a name: INMATE. You want to be Clint Eastwood and tell the punks to: "Get offa my lawn" enjoy, but if you act like an ass and commit a crime under the guise of your form of justice, you will be a prisoner before long.

[Lucky... 0]

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>If man X is beating his wife, the neighbors call, the cops come out and
>the wife, obviously beaten says not to worry about it, she's ok with it.

Right. But if you are spanking your wife because she prefers it (and is OK with it, you talked about it beforehand) - should you be arrested? What crime have you committed?

But if you are spanking your wife with her permission after you offered the option of a spanking or another beating, that is no longer with her permission.

[FallingOsh 0]

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According to the lynch mob he was tracked down

They wasn't a lynch mob. More ad hominem... not surprising.

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and given 3 choices of which at least 1 was violence. That's called coercion at the very least.

That leaves two choices that were non-violent. That's not coercion. That's options. Gracious options for someone that burns my stuff.

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This follows my point; once the lynch mob offered to beat him, he was out of the eqquation and it all rested on the criminals who lynched him. And remember, we know 1 side of the story.

Once again, not a lynch mob and they certainly didn't lynch him. The criminal was given multiple choices... none of which included death.

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Again, what if beaten while taped and unable to defend himself, his captors off doing something else - not a big if really - then how would that play out in your mind? Was he endangered?

What if, what if, what if... what if he had never burned their stuff in the first place? Ad hominem is really all you have and really getting old.

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The feelings of the caotured are not important

,

So then what do you care? The law was broken when he burned their property. No law was broken when he agreed to be taped up. If you're talking only law and no feelings then it's a cut and dried case.

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the captor admitted to giving 3 choices with at least 1 including violence, so that's all the prosecutor would need if they weren't all rednecked out.

All the prosecutor needed was the admittance of the kid who burned someone else's property. Giving him 3 choices and letting him choose was not against the law.

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I don't make it mine. If I were that kid or were there to help him handle this matter, I would have said to not let the nuts in, if they broke down the door to retreat to the back of the house and get a gun,

Did they break in?

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if they persisted and imminent danger was obvious: shoot.

So he could defend himself but it's ok to go burn other people's property?

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Otherwise if they sat outside and were a nuisance, call the cops. If they hung around withthe intention of causing harm of abducting someone, call the cops.

They didn't abduct him. He chose that direction as a consequence of burning someone's property.

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If they call the cops and make a complaint and the cops come out, cooperate and don't say a thing, get a lawyer and deal with that.

yeah, don't ever handle something on your own. Always lawyer up even when it can be handled in a mutual agreement.

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That is the civilized way to deal with this matter.

Issues were handled civily long before lawyers were involved in every aspect of life.

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People who think lynching is the best have a name: INMATE.

True. Thankfully there were no lynch mobs in this case.

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You want to be Clint Eastwood and tell the punks to: "Get offa my lawn" enjoy, but if you act like an ass and commit a crime under the guise of your form of justice, you will be a prisoner before long.

Telling punks to get off my lawn is not against the law, now matter how bad your feelings get hurt or how much you want to go crying to a lawyer.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[billvon 3,078]

>But if you are spanking your wife with her permission after you offered
>the option of a spanking or another beating, that is no longer with her
>permission.

Agreed. If that was the case here, then it would be coercion. However, it was not. He was given the option for no duct taping or beating whatsoever, simply a trip to visit the police.

[Lucky... 0]

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>But if you are spanking your wife with her permission after you offered
>the option of a spanking or another beating, that is no longer with her
>permission.

Agreed. If that was the case here, then it would be coercion. However, it was not. He was given the option for no duct taping or beating whatsoever, simply a trip to visit the police.

Let's be sure that we didn't hear the other 2 sides of the story: the tapees and the truth. So even if we go by the abductor we know that violence was on teh table to coerce him into taking one of the other 2. And I'm not convinced the police option was even offered or they would have likely opted for that one before approaching him if that was in their desire.

Once violence is offered, all bets are off.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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>But if you are spanking your wife with her permission after you offered
>the option of a spanking or another beating, that is no longer with her
>permission.

Agreed. If that was the case here, then it would be coercion. However, it was not. He was given the option for no duct taping or beating whatsoever, simply a trip to visit the police.

Let's be sure that we didn't hear the other 2 sides of the story: the tapees and the truth. So even if we go by the abductor we know that violence was on teh table to coerce him into taking one of the other 2. And I'm not convinced the police option was even offered or they would have likely opted for that one before approaching him if that was in their desire.

Once violence is offered, all bets are off.

So because you are not convinced it did not occur the way it was reported.

We will all remember that you will never change your mind in light if the facts.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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>But if you are spanking your wife with her permission after you offered
>the option of a spanking or another beating, that is no longer with her
>permission.

Agreed. If that was the case here, then it would be coercion. However, it was not. He was given the option for no duct taping or beating whatsoever, simply a trip to visit the police.

Let's be sure that we didn't hear the other 2 sides of the story: the tapees and the truth. So even if we go by the abductor we know that violence was on teh table to coerce him into taking one of the other 2. And I'm not convinced the police option was even offered or they would have likely opted for that one before approaching him if that was in their desire.

Once violence is offered, all bets are off.

You are assuming everyone whose side has been presented has lied. Since the flag burner chose to be taped instead of facing the cops (who would have been VERY interested in hearing of threats of violence) I, for one, assume the vets are telling the truth and the burner would not tell a significantly differing version.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[LouDiamond 1]

A little something for the Nay sayers and those who still think its a conspiracy and only one side is being reported. Please....before you reply, read the very last statement of the article. No matter what you or I or anyone else thinks, that last sentence sums it all up. "What if" all you want, if your Aunt had balls she'd be your Uncle. Neither side is pressing charges so it appears to be consensual what transpired. Until facts present themselves otherwise assuming it wasn't consensual is like pissing in the wind.


Flag Burner Pilloried by Veterans
September 28, 2009
Times Union, Albany, N.Y.

VALLEY FALLS, N.Y. -- This is a red, white and blue village that is still seeing red after a flag that flew over Iraq was burned by a 21-year-old.

The payback? He was publicly humiliated last Sunday by being duct-taped to the flagpole of Veterans of Foreign War 1938 say he desecrated Sept. 18.

Nick Normile, post commander and Vietnam War veteran, said he's been flooded with calls from media outlets since the events of last week received attention from local TV stations and newspapers. He's been asked to go live on a veterans radio show program from Tennessee, another radio show from Chicago and even received a call from NBC studios in New York City.

But Normile said he's not planning to let the story get any more attention and has declined appearances.

"I'm not trying to be some martyr or hero," Normile said. "I just did what I thought was right."

The 21-year-old appeared intoxicated when he entered the VFW post on the day of the alleged act, Normile said. When the man was refused service for not having a proper ID, he ran out in a fit of anger. He cut the rope of the flag, which had once flown over troops in Iraq, and ignited it with a cigarette lighter.

Two days later, Normile said the man was forced to sit in the sun pilloried for six hours as townspeople gathered across the street for a youth soccer picnic. A sign was hung around his neck detailing what he had done. It recalled the Middle Ages punishment, subjecting him to public humiliation and scorn.

"He'll never disrespect the flag again, I can tell you that," Normile said on Friday.

A week later villagers were hush-hush about the event, but patrons of the post bar gave a nod of agreement to the punishment, pointing proudly to a newspaper clipping of the event on a bulletin board.

Patriotism is on open display in this village of about 500, the walls of a defunct railroad bridge near it's entrance now brightly colored red, white and blue. Most of the historical homes have American flags of their own hanging from porches, some also adorned with the Don't Tread on Me flag, popular with Tea Party activists.

Normile said once he found out what the man had done, he knew he had to be taught a lesson. Normile said he went out hunting for him, but when he couldn't find him at his apartment, he sought the help of the man's uncle to bring him out.

"He manned up, he knew he had punishment coming, " said Normile, who described the young man he refused to identify as guilty and ashamed.

"I told him to think about those kids in the foxhole, and how they had no one to set them free, " Normile said. "It got to him, so I was satisfied. He showed a lot of remorse, no attitude."

Normile said the flag, whose pieces will be retired in a formal ceremony, had significant meaning. The villages auxiliary had been sending toiletries and other goods to Soldiers in Iraq, who then sent back the flag that had flown over their bunker. It was received with great attention and a ceremony.

State troopers and Rensselaer County sheriffs deputies said no charges had been filed by either the VFW post or the man.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[billvon 3,078]

> So even if we go by the abductor we know that violence was on teh table
>to coerce him into taking one of the other 2.

No one threatened him with violence.

>Let's be sure that we didn't hear the other 2 sides of the story

All the tapee had to say was "I didn't agree" and they're looking at kidnapping charges. He hasn't done that.

So unless you yourself have additional info, what happened was entirely consensual, and the threat of violence was not used.

[TankBuster 0]

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Once violence is offered, all bets are off.

So, you're NOT ok with threatening violence against a known perp.

You're FOR the threat of violence in order to redistribute wealth.

Got it.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[futuredivot 0]

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Let's be sure that we didn't hear the other 2 sides of the story: the tapees and the truth.

And you KNOW you haven't heard the truth? How? Because it doesn't agree with your views? World doesn't work that way.

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Once violence is offered, all bets are off.

Embrace other viewpoints. Not everybody is a pussy.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Lucky... 0]

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And you KNOW you haven't heard the truth? How? Because it doesn't agree with your views? World doesn't work that way.

I haven't read anything but statements from the captors, watched vids from the captors. Is tyhere more out there or just inferrecne?

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Embrace other viewpoints. Not everybody is a pussy.

Without sidestepping, are you calling me a pussy, yes or no?

[Lucky... 0]

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>But if you are spanking your wife with her permission after you offered
>the option of a spanking or another beating, that is no longer with her
>permission.

Agreed. If that was the case here, then it would be coercion. However, it was not. He was given the option for no duct taping or beating whatsoever, simply a trip to visit the police.

Let's be sure that we didn't hear the other 2 sides of the story: the tapees and the truth. So even if we go by the abductor we know that violence was on teh table to coerce him into taking one of the other 2. And I'm not convinced the police option was even offered or they would have likely opted for that one before approaching him if that was in their desire.

Once violence is offered, all bets are off.

So because you are not convinced it did not occur the way it was reported.

We will all remember that you will never change your mind in light if the facts.

It may or may not have. It is highly unlikely that an event played out exactly as 1 side of an adverse situation reports. EVEN IF IT DID, we still have a situation where thugs hunted down a man and gave him options where at least 1 was physical violence.

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...in light if the facts.

We don't have facts, we have 1 side of a story.

[Lucky... 0]

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>But if you are spanking your wife with her permission after you offered
>the option of a spanking or another beating, that is no longer with her
>permission.

Agreed. If that was the case here, then it would be coercion. However, it was not. He was given the option for no duct taping or beating whatsoever, simply a trip to visit the police.

Let's be sure that we didn't hear the other 2 sides of the story: the tapees and the truth. So even if we go by the abductor we know that violence was on teh table to coerce him into taking one of the other 2. And I'm not convinced the police option was even offered or they would have likely opted for that one before approaching him if that was in their desire.

Once violence is offered, all bets are off.

You are assuming everyone whose side has been presented has lied. Since the flag burner chose to be taped instead of facing the cops (who would have been VERY interested in hearing of threats of violence) I, for one, assume the vets are telling the truth and the burner would not tell a significantly differing version.

Everyone? All I read was the head redneck who told his story.

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Since the flag burner chose ...

And you've already convicted him w/o hearing his side, not 1 word. I wonder why we convict innocent people?

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Since the flag burner chose to be taped instead of facing the cops...

The captor said he chose to be taped after one of the other options was violence. Let's not speak for the alleged flag burner.

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I, for one, assume the vets are telling the truth ...

Right, and it's fine that you do, don't demand I believe them. Most stories have a degree of truth to them. Even if the captor is telling the truth, he still did threaten violence as an option.

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...the burner would not tell a significantly differing version.

2 assumptions:

- The kid was the burner

- The kid would tell the same story.

And I'm the bad guy here because I want the whole story and to not make wild assumptions?

[billvon 3,078]

>And you've already convicted him w/o hearing his side, not 1 word.

That's the point. He WASN'T convicted. He agreed to do something, and in fact _escaped_ conviction.

>I wonder why we convict innocent people?

Because people like you assume that people are commiting crimes when in fact it was something that was 100% voluntary.

[Lucky... 0]

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State troopers and Rensselaer County sheriffs deputies said no charges had been filed by either the VFW post or the man.

I wonder what the cops would do if anyone came in to report an assault like this? This was redneckville, NY, right? Hmmmm, which way do cops lean? I could impart several personal stories or post probably 100's where cops are biased toward the good ole boys, but you would just dismiss them.

It could also be that the kid is too afraid to go to the cops for fear of other repraisal. The truth in my opinion is that the kid did burn the flag, the necks hunted him down and probably said you can fight that big MF over there or we can tape you to that pole for 6 hours. I believe the call the cops option was an afterthought when talking to the media. To me that is the most likely series of events and statements. If the necks wanted to call the cops they would have, it just doesn't have the ring of truth that cops were ever an option.

[billvon 3,078]

>I wonder what the cops would do if anyone came in to report an assault
>like this? This was redneckville, NY, right? Hmmmm, which way do cops
>lean?

So now it's a conspiracy theory, complete with bigotry! I love it.

>The truth in my opinion is that the kid did burn the flag, the necks
>hunted him down and probably said you can fight that big MF over there
>or we can tape you to that pole for 6 hours.

More likely what they said happened, happened, since the kid did not dispute it. Occam's Razor is a wonderful thing.

[Lucky... 0]

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No one threatened him with violence.

If I held a gun to your head and said you can give me your money or I can kill you, so then you give me your money and I walk away saying you chose to give me your money, therefore it wasn't a crime, the choice was yours, you had another option and you chose that one.

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All the tapee had to say was "I didn't agree" and they're looking at kidnapping charges.

Ever got to the cops and have them refuse to write a police report? I have. Or the if you push it the cops will say, ;ok, we write the report and then arrest you.

Bill, if you think the kid wasn't intimidated by the group of necks then I don't know what to tell you.

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He hasn't done that.

It hasn't been reported that he has.

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So unless you yourself have additional info, what happened was entirely consensual, and the threat of violence was not used.

Bill, there were 3 options, 1 was violence and that was from the side of the abductors. Just think if we had the whole story from both sides. The 3 options isn't in debate and 1 was violence; that's garden variety coercion.