champu 1 #101 October 10, 2009 QuoteThe original question was something like how the Dems have fucked us, wasn't it? No, that's not where it originated. Someone said that republicans and democrats alike have failed us. You claimed that no, no, no, democrats haven't failed us. I told you that politicians are politicians and you should put the pom-poms down. I'm not defending republicans, and I'm not slamming democrats, I'm saying that the job they all do has become one that usually isn't worth defending, let alone with the fervor that you display in doing so. QuoteQuoteIf the pentagon drafts a budget of $640B, and the house and senate pass a $600B defense bill that mandates $40B must be spent on sharks with freakin' laser beams attached to their heads because lobbyists told them to then both the republicans and democrats have failed us. Can we agree here? It depends upon who voted for it. For example NAFTA was initiated by GHWB, then the Dem controlled congress passed it with overwhelming Repub support, even tho they were a minority. That was more Repub than Dem. Then Clinton signed it. That was an issue that was more systemeic, but it had more Repub support. That's all well and good, but if congress passes a shitty bill, I hold at least the majority party and in all likelihood both parties at fault. QuoteQuoteOr would you read such a headline and paraphrase it as "democratic-lead house and senate succeed in cutting defense spending by 6.25%." I would rather look at the budget, the issues, the intent and the result as a whole rather than a microcosm. I can take any fragment and make a point that might not be representative of the truth. On that I think we can toast. To sensible decisions! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #102 October 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteOur 'engineers' (handy-men) have starting salaries of just under $40 per hour, not including overtime or graveyard. Same price for the touch-up painters. Our bussers ear $18 per hour plus tip-outs, dishwaers are $20 per hour. We had waste management strikes a couple years back- the trashmen earn salaries in the 75-85K range PLUS benefits. The BART train operators earn 63-75K annually + benefits. The best part? THEY ALL THINK THEY ARE UNDERPAID. The average manager at my property (1900+ guestrooms, we do over 120 million annually on average) makes between 45-55K... Welcome to the way the world works now. Dock workers get paid six figures now, and we wonder why we can't compete with the global market, the rest of the world ISN'T insane like our workforce. end rant Brett Is that state or what? What is the employer? I find it hard to believe, is there a website? the way I read it was that when he said at my property insinuated that he was paying these employees to work on his property. you may have missed those 3 words if you just skimmed the second paragraph.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #103 October 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteOur 'engineers' (handy-men) have starting salaries of just under $40 per hour, not including overtime or graveyard. Same price for the touch-up painters. Our bussers ear $18 per hour plus tip-outs, dishwaers are $20 per hour. We had waste management strikes a couple years back- the trashmen earn salaries in the 75-85K range PLUS benefits. The BART train operators earn 63-75K annually + benefits. The best part? THEY ALL THINK THEY ARE UNDERPAID. The average manager at my property (1900+ guestrooms, we do over 120 million annually on average) makes between 45-55K... Welcome to the way the world works now. Dock workers get paid six figures now, and we wonder why we can't compete with the global market, the rest of the world ISN'T insane like our workforce. end rant Brett Is that state or what? What is the employer? I find it hard to believe, is there a website? the way I read it was that when he said at my property insinuated that he was paying these employees to work on his property. you may have missed those 3 words if you just skimmed the second paragraph. I see BART up there too. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/03/BAGGMDILA21.DTL BART says it already pays average wages of $64,428 a year for members of its two largest unions, the Service Employees International Union 790 and the Amalgamated Transit Union 1555. Workers in those unions, which represent 2,300 of the district's nearly 3,000 employees, also receive an average benefits package of $29,750. Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/03/BAGGMDILA21.DTL#ixzz0TXmunMKU So we have 34k and 64k, I don't see 75k and I don't see starting or not. Agreed they are paid well, but I don't seee the other wages of 75-80k as Brett was talking about. I imagine some obscure locations pay that, but I can also find aberrations, let's talk mainstream. I get accused of hating rich people, which is false, I wonder how others would react to hating the little guy. Esp bizzare when some people who would denounce wages for the little guy are the little guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #104 October 10, 2009 Quote Yes. And others prey on that fear to incite the sort of anger and violence that helps their cause. Using Fear to incite violence and anger?? Wow, What a new concept. I am glad that republicans are the only ones that have eve done that. Such a new concept. Quote Recently an anti-Obama conservative went on a shooting spree because he thought Obama would "grab his guns." And I remember when some nut case killed himself because an Ozzy song told him to. And the Beatles made the Manson Family Kill with the song Helter Skelter.. And Kids that played D&D when it fist came out committed suicide when their characters died, There have always been unstable people that will do horrible things and then blame someone else for their stupidity. Yes, The right is worried and afraid as they feel their core principals (And the core Principals that this nation was founded on) are threatened. I agree that most of these fears are unfounded but some are valid concerns. The Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck`s of the world are NOT helping.. And neither are the Farrakhan's, Frankens, Moore and other far lefts. But Free Speech, Freedom of the Press are more of those founding principals and the right to speak out against the Government is the most important of these rights. Hatred and anger spews from both sides.Until people are willing to forget about their Labels and listen to each othe and understand that just because the idea came from the other side does not mean it is always a bad idea, it is only going to get worse. And back on track.. People need to be rational.. The Olympics = Good Choice. Nobel Prize = Poor Choice. And it does not have to a political statement to say this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #105 October 10, 2009 QuoteYes, The right is worried and afraid as they feel their core principals (And the core Principals that this nation was founded on) are threatened. They already have been deteriorated; look at the demise of slavery that this country was founded upon; the bastards stole it away. Next thing ya know they'll let women vote; that's when I break out my guns. QuoteNobel Prize = Poor Choice. It was a political statement saying: - GWB = bad choice - Obama = good choice Don't read into it, you'll drive yourself crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #106 October 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteYes, The right is worried and afraid as they feel their core principals (And the core Principals that this nation was founded on) are threatened. They already have been deteriorated; look at the demise of slavery that this country was founded upon; the bastards stole it away. Next thing ya know they'll let women vote; that's when I break out my guns. What a crock of shit. Ironically the examples that you pointed are exactly the type of things that are contradictory to our founding principals. Once again, My opinion of what those principals were/are... "individual freedom, self-reliance, equality of opportunity, hard work, material wealth, and competition" QuoteNobel Prize = Poor Choice. QuoteIt was a political statement saying: - GWB = bad choice - Obama = good choice Don't read into it, you'll drive yourself crazy. For I think the first time ever (And I will gladly pay a beer fine for this), I agree with you completely. That is exactly what it was. There were 204 other nominees that were almost all more qualified for that award. It is a shame that their hard work, accomplishments and dedication to PEACE were not recognized so that the Norwegians could make a political statement. If Time names Obama Man of the Year (Again), No problem at all. At this point I think he has earned that award. But a Nobel Peace Prize when he has not yet earned it.. NO. No Hatred, No Politics, Just a rational opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #107 October 10, 2009 The Repulikanz can't stand anything that isn't theirs. They were openly trying to bring about a single party state just a few years ago (I have a cousin-in-law who's a big Republikan high roller and personal pal of GW Bush, and he openly talks about the joys of a single partei state, so don't tell me it isn't so). Now that the Republikans have been voted back into minority status, they are more than willing to bring the roof down on all our heads if it can return them to POWER - which is all they give a shit about. Health care, the Chicago Olympics, the Nobel Prize are just chicken feed issues. I'm concerned that the Republikanz would stoop to fomenting a civil war, with all the horrors of "ethnic cleansing", ala Bosnia. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #108 October 10, 2009 Quote I'm concerned that the Republikanz would stoop to fomenting a civil war, with all the horrors of "ethnic cleansing", ala Bosnia. huh? www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #109 October 10, 2009 Quote Quote I'm concerned that the Republikanz would stoop to fomenting a civil war, with all the horrors of "ethnic cleansing", ala Bosnia. huh? Well, for example, consider the vitriol of the anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim rhetoric coming out of the right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #110 October 10, 2009 Quote Quote Quote I'm concerned that the Republikanz would stoop to fomenting a civil war, with all the horrors of "ethnic cleansing", ala Bosnia. huh? Well, for example, consider the vitriol of the anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim rhetoric coming out of the right. First a civil war would have to break out. I don't think we are quite there yet. www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #111 October 10, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote I'm concerned that the Republikanz would stoop to fomenting a civil war, with all the horrors of "ethnic cleansing", ala Bosnia. huh? Well, for example, consider the vitriol of the anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim rhetoric coming out of the right. First a civil war would have to break out. I don't think we are quite there yet. I don't either. But it occurred to me, when recently reading some posts on here referring to "liberalism" as a "mental illness" or a "disease", that there's so much vitriol, that, well, the seeds are there. And guess who the first targets are likely to be? Lock n load. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #112 October 10, 2009 That would make an interesting movie. I'm concerned Obama will not step down as President and appoint himself Supreme Commander of the American Republic after losing the election in 2012. Ok not really but I think you get my point. www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #113 October 10, 2009 >First a civil war would have to break out. I don't think we are quite there yet. Newsmax thinks we are: ====== There is a remote, although gaining, possibility America's military will intervene as a last resort to resolve the "Obama problem." Don't dismiss it as unrealistic. America isn't the Third World. If a military coup does occur here it will be civilized. That it has never happened doesn't mean it wont. Describing what may be afoot is not to advocate it. Will the day come when patriotic general and flag officers sit down with the president, or with those who control him, and work out the national equivalent of a "family intervention," with some form of limited, shared responsibility? Imagine a bloodless coup to restore and defend the Constitution through an interim administration that would do the serious business of governing and defending the nation. Skilled, military-trained, nation-builders would replace accountability-challenged, radical-left commissars. Having bonded with his twin teleprompters, the president would be detailed for ceremonial speech-making. Military intervention is what Obama's exponentially accelerating agenda for "fundamental change" toward a Marxist state is inviting upon America. A coup is not an ideal option, but Obama's radical ideal is not acceptable or reversible. ======== Of course, in NewsMaxSpeak, advocating for the destruction of the US government is "patriotic." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #114 October 10, 2009 QuoteWhat a crock of shit. http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w94/Get_Organized/Funny%20pix%20and%20signs%20off%20the%20web/crock-of-shit.jpg Ahhhh, now that's a crock of shit. QuoteIronically the examples that you pointed are exactly the type of things that are contradictory to our founding principals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_compromise Sorry, my friends, a black person was 3/5th of a man. The Three-Fifths Compromise was a compromise between Southern and Northern states reached during the Philadelphia Convention of 1787 in which three-fifths of the population of slaves would be counted for enumeration purposes regarding both the distribution of taxes and the apportionment of the members of the United States House of Representatives. The three-fifths ratio was not a new concept. It originated with a 1783 amendment proposed to the Articles of Confederation. QuoteOnce again, My opinion of what those principals were/are... "individual freedom, self-reliance, equality of opportunity, hard work, material wealth, and competition" Yea, your opinion, just not the writings and practices. I'm not projecting this on you, just defining the founding principles. QuoteFor I think the first time ever (And I will gladly pay a beer fine for this), I agree with you completely. That is exactly what it was. Why apologize for agreeing, I was right on the issue about and am on this one too. Bush and teh neo-con agenda is poop; the world knew it, they're just telling us via an award. QuoteThere were 204 other nominees that were almost all more qualified for that award. It is a shame that their hard work, accomplishments and dedication to PEACE were not recognized so that the Norwegians could make a political statement. Yep, it's a shame the American electorate was so unable to choose a better president for 8 years that the world had to let us know when we got it right. QuoteIf Time names Obama Man of the Year (Again), No problem at all. At this point I think he has earned that award. But a Nobel Peace Prize when he has not yet earned it.. NO. It's not the prize, it's the meaning, the message behind it. I see some Republican politicians figuring it out. They are stopping the vile hatred, the denial the unwillingness to compromise. Of course others are just jumping ship. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #115 October 13, 2009 So, brainiac, where you a mujahadin when the Iraq and Afghanistan started, I did not see your full support then? "According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #116 October 13, 2009 So Hey none brainiac (something we have already established about you). Do you understand the concept of disagreeing with what the president is doing? And the difference in hoping he will fail at whatever he does? You seem to miss a lot of points? I hope you pay better attention at your job. If you would have read the thread other then just have a knee jerk reaction as usall to a brown person posting you might already know that. Also where I come from being smart is a good thing. So thanks for the complementI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #117 October 13, 2009 Quote So, brainiac, where you a mujahadin when the Iraq and Afghanistan started, I did not see your full support then? Oh, here you go again! Aggressive and noxious, like usual ... Who let you out of your burrow? Methinks, you didn't see anything at all. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #118 October 14, 2009 [replyYes, The right is worried and afraid as they feel their core principals (And the core Principals that this nation was founded on) are threatened. Quote What exactly are these "core principals" that the nation was founded on? Start with not being a VI and use the correct word - Principles Principals run schools, RMOG. The scum that is the reich wing has no idea what principles are. They have proved it over and over again since the Reagan war on the middle class. That very successful war that has put us where we are today. Principles like what? Show me where any of that shit actually applies to the actions of the reich wing, and the sheeple that go along with them. I see NONE of that from the righty scumbags. Nothing. You morons are fed a line of crap by the corporate media, and fall for it hook, line, and sinker. Stinking sheeple, gullible to the core. Not a shred of critical thinking skills at all. Village Idiots whose opinions are venal and selfish to the core. No concept of the greater good and fair play. What principles? The reich wing has none. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Thanatos340 1 #119 October 14, 2009 Wow!! And I thought the Right was supposed to be the party full of hate.Anyway.. Mods, I truly take offense at the following PA`s Quote You morons Quote Village Idiots And I have no idea what a "VI" is but I suspect that was yet another uncalled for personal attack (Most likely a an abbreviation for to Village Idiot) Ect.. Ect.. I will gladly discuss my position with any rational person willing to stick to the topic at hand. This person does not meet that criteria in my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites funjumper101 15 #120 October 14, 2009 In other words, you can spew reich wing talking points without any comprehension of what they mean. When agressively challenged to back up your words, you retreat into "you're being mean to me", and write about how HURT your feelings are. I ask again, what are these so called "founding principles" that the reich wing is defending? If you know, answer the question. You don't, so STFU and get out of the way of meaningful reform of a horrible situation brought about by Rescumlicans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #121 October 14, 2009 You are a clone of Amazon! Welcome back! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites downwardspiral 0 #122 October 14, 2009 Quote You are a clone of Amazon! Welcome back! Matt good call...very amazonian! www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnDeere 0 #123 October 14, 2009 Quote Quote You are a clone of Amazon! Welcome back! Matt good call...very amazonian! +1 If you have no way of debating your side then ATTACK!Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BDashe 0 #124 October 14, 2009 Quote You don't, so STFU and get out of the way of meaningful reform of a horrible situation brought about by Rescumlicans. Here is the deal. Liberals have great ideas, their principals are morally sound. It is very easy to sell the principals of the democratic party because everybody has wants/needs. Almost all needs must be paid for. Now, the problem is you have to DO something to get the basics in life vs. just existing. Taking care of the basics in life truly doesnt take much effort. So back to the Dems having great ideas. The problem is, the way government works, there is no way to justifiably pay for all the 'programs' that will likely fail miserably at the leadership of a bunch of bureaucrats. The only reason why you can consider me 'right wing' is because at least the right wing recognizes that all bureaucrats, even themselves, can hardly do anything right so we should only fund the necessary programs. Now, feel free to pick that apart and show me all the ridiculous programs righties have voted for, but my point remains valid. In general, left = more programs that will fail miserably, Right = less programs that will fail miserably strictly because there are less programs to fail. so, your 'meaningful reform' is sure a great idea, but it is destined to fail miserably or operate in the most inefficient manner possible simply because the government is running it. That's called realist vs. idealist. Free everything sounds amazing, but it'll never work. it's hard being on the naysayer side because the opposition makes soda in the water fountains sound so darn easy and great, especially with the current person who is selling it. Sucks, cuz it's gonna take a few years for reality to sink in.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #125 October 14, 2009 QuoteIn general, left = more programs that will fail miserably, Right = less programs that will fail miserably strictly because there are less programs to fail. No, the right doesn't promote fewer programs than the left. They promote different programs (and often spend more money on them) than the left. Quoteso, your 'meaningful reform' is sure a great idea, but it is destined to fail miserably or operate in the most inefficient manner possible simply because the government is running it. There is nothing that makes the private sector inherently more efficient than the public sector (or vice versa).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! 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Thanatos340 1 #119 October 14, 2009 Wow!! And I thought the Right was supposed to be the party full of hate.Anyway.. Mods, I truly take offense at the following PA`s Quote You morons Quote Village Idiots And I have no idea what a "VI" is but I suspect that was yet another uncalled for personal attack (Most likely a an abbreviation for to Village Idiot) Ect.. Ect.. I will gladly discuss my position with any rational person willing to stick to the topic at hand. This person does not meet that criteria in my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #120 October 14, 2009 In other words, you can spew reich wing talking points without any comprehension of what they mean. When agressively challenged to back up your words, you retreat into "you're being mean to me", and write about how HURT your feelings are. I ask again, what are these so called "founding principles" that the reich wing is defending? If you know, answer the question. You don't, so STFU and get out of the way of meaningful reform of a horrible situation brought about by Rescumlicans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #121 October 14, 2009 You are a clone of Amazon! Welcome back! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #122 October 14, 2009 Quote You are a clone of Amazon! Welcome back! Matt good call...very amazonian! www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #123 October 14, 2009 Quote Quote You are a clone of Amazon! Welcome back! Matt good call...very amazonian! +1 If you have no way of debating your side then ATTACK!Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #124 October 14, 2009 Quote You don't, so STFU and get out of the way of meaningful reform of a horrible situation brought about by Rescumlicans. Here is the deal. Liberals have great ideas, their principals are morally sound. It is very easy to sell the principals of the democratic party because everybody has wants/needs. Almost all needs must be paid for. Now, the problem is you have to DO something to get the basics in life vs. just existing. Taking care of the basics in life truly doesnt take much effort. So back to the Dems having great ideas. The problem is, the way government works, there is no way to justifiably pay for all the 'programs' that will likely fail miserably at the leadership of a bunch of bureaucrats. The only reason why you can consider me 'right wing' is because at least the right wing recognizes that all bureaucrats, even themselves, can hardly do anything right so we should only fund the necessary programs. Now, feel free to pick that apart and show me all the ridiculous programs righties have voted for, but my point remains valid. In general, left = more programs that will fail miserably, Right = less programs that will fail miserably strictly because there are less programs to fail. so, your 'meaningful reform' is sure a great idea, but it is destined to fail miserably or operate in the most inefficient manner possible simply because the government is running it. That's called realist vs. idealist. Free everything sounds amazing, but it'll never work. it's hard being on the naysayer side because the opposition makes soda in the water fountains sound so darn easy and great, especially with the current person who is selling it. Sucks, cuz it's gonna take a few years for reality to sink in.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #125 October 14, 2009 QuoteIn general, left = more programs that will fail miserably, Right = less programs that will fail miserably strictly because there are less programs to fail. No, the right doesn't promote fewer programs than the left. They promote different programs (and often spend more money on them) than the left. Quoteso, your 'meaningful reform' is sure a great idea, but it is destined to fail miserably or operate in the most inefficient manner possible simply because the government is running it. There is nothing that makes the private sector inherently more efficient than the public sector (or vice versa).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
