cliffwhite 0 #1 October 10, 2009 I forget the story of that hard fighting US soldier who was so mistreated by the Iraquis after her capture. I also can't quite remember every heroic detail of her rescuers' efforts. Can anyone refresh my memory? Thanks. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 October 10, 2009 Google is your friend.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #3 October 10, 2009 http://tinyurl.com/yjxklpq-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #4 October 12, 2009 Quote I forget the story of that hard fighting US soldier who was so mistreated by the Iraquis after her capture. I also can't quite remember every heroic detail of her rescuers' efforts. Can anyone refresh my memory? Thanks. Blues, Cliff Why would we refresh your memory when you already know the whole story about how the Jessica Lynch mission was filmed in Hollywood somewhere? On a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. The fame she received was pathetic. She was rewarded for failing to do her job. Far greater soldiers have accomplished much more and received much less gratitude than she received.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 October 12, 2009 QuoteOn a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. That's pretty harsh. Yeah, she screwed up but it's not like she asked to be dragged into the side show.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #6 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuoteOn a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. That's pretty harsh. Yeah, she screwed up but it's not like she asked to be dragged into the side show. I don't know quade.... I can see his view point. We just lost one of our skydivers (Sgt Rob Sanchez) on October 1st in Afgan. by an IED. He fought many missions before his death and we never hear about the many soldiers and their acomplishments. I think it boils down to gender. Lynch is female and that was stimuli to the Press. End of story. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #7 October 12, 2009 [reply we never hear about the many soldiers and their acomplishments. Quote What accomplishments? More Afghan civilians wounded or killed? Opium production at the highest levels in decades? To which accomplishments are you referring? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #8 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuote I forget the story of that hard fighting US soldier who was so mistreated by the Iraquis after her capture. I also can't quite remember every heroic detail of her rescuers' efforts. Can anyone refresh my memory? Thanks. Blues, Cliff Why would we refresh your memory when you already know the whole story about how the Jessica Lynch mission was filmed in Hollywood somewhere? On a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. The fame she received was pathetic. She was rewarded for failing to do her job. Far greater soldiers have accomplished much more and received much less gratitude than she received. Sure " far greater soldiers have accomplished much more and received much less gratitude than she received", no argument there. But to call her a failure because she wasn't killed with the rest of her outfit is pretty lame.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #9 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuote I forget the story of that hard fighting US soldier who was so mistreated by the Iraquis after her capture. I also can't quite remember every heroic detail of her rescuers' efforts. Can anyone refresh my memory? Thanks. Blues, Cliff Why would we refresh your memory when you already know the whole story about how the Jessica Lynch mission was filmed in Hollywood somewhere? On a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. The fame she received was pathetic. She was rewarded for failing to do her job. Far greater soldiers have accomplished much more and received much less gratitude than she received. I didn't see the story - no interest, but she was slamming the whole mess for the story being misrepresented by the military last I heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likearock 2 #10 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteOn a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. That's pretty harsh. Yeah, she screwed up but it's not like she asked to be dragged into the side show. I don't know quade.... I can see his view point. We just lost one of our skydivers (Sgt Rob Sanchez) on October 1st in Afgan. by an IED. He fought many missions before his death and we never hear about the many soldiers and their acomplishments. I think it boils down to gender. Lynch is female and that was stimuli to the Press. End of story. So how does that translate to animosity towards Lynch, who at a minimum earned her purple heart? Say what you want about the media and the politicians but calling her a failure is disrespectful to all who serve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #11 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOn a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. That's pretty harsh. Yeah, she screwed up but it's not like she asked to be dragged into the side show. I don't know quade.... I can see his view point. We just lost one of our skydivers (Sgt Rob Sanchez) on October 1st in Afgan. by an IED. He fought many missions before his death and we never hear about the many soldiers and their acomplishments. I think it boils down to gender. Lynch is female and that was stimuli to the Press. End of story. So how does that translate to animosity towards Lynch, who at a minimum earned her purple heart? Say what you want about the media and the politicians but calling her a failure is disrespectful to all who serve. Considering the person who called Jessica Lynch a failure is in the military himself(I'm talking about myself if you aren't quite sure) I doubt its a knock on all soldiers. Jessica Lynch surviving isn't a result of her heroism, its a result of her failing to do her job and trying to fight her way out of it. Other members of that convoy fought to the death and received little to no recognition for it, Lynch never fired a round and was made out to be the next Audie Murphy. To put it simply, she failed to do what she was trained to do. She admitted that when her weapon malfunctioned she was unable to perform the simple action required to bring it back into operation. If I ever had a soldier under me do that they would be flipping burgers at McDonald's before the ambuh was over. And the worst part about the whole situation was that she publicly slammed the forces that went in on the CSAR mission to bring her home. She said the soldiers that cleared the building where they found her traumatized her because of how agressively they cleared the building. The most recent Medal of Honor recipient barely got a 30 second news clip, Lynch has everything from a book deal on down, its disgusting. And if you're wondering why this sits so heavy with me its because I've seen countless incidents of true acts of valor being overlooked while people who accomplished nothing receive the praise and commendation. Not to mention I've personally been left hanging in the middle of an ambush while the person who was supposed to be watching my back did nothing. So the type of failure I speak of in my posts nearly cost me my life and I don't look to highly upon it.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #12 October 12, 2009 I think you really need to understand that she isn't the one that promoted her status as a "rescued hero"; it was the US military. She didn't ask for fame or book deals. The entire event was trumped up propaganda just like Tillman. I completely understand wanting more recognition to go to others that may have done more; no question, great idea. However, your anger is misplaced in focusing it at Lynch. You should be angry with the military propaganda machine.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #13 October 12, 2009 QuoteJessica Lynch surviving isn't a result of her heroism, its a result of her failing to do her job and trying to fight her way out of it. Other members of that convoy fought to the death and received little to no recognition for it, Lynch never fired a round and was made out to be the next Audie Murphy. I don't think it was her fault that she was made out to be the next Audie Murphy. Her biggest problem is that she was cute and blond and radio reports of a blonde soldier fighting to the death made people think it was her (it was actually Sgt. Donald Walter). Additionally, she is blamed for not firing a round. I've heard stories of a malfunction, etc. I attribute that to piss poor training. It's not her fault that it wasn't drilled into her. One of the other guys (his name escapes me) got a Silver Star. He said that he hadn't fired his weapon in 7 or 8 months before that. He similarly didn't fire a round until his vehicle broke. By that point, of course, she was the sole survivor in her Humvee - the others killed when it crashed. And she suffered some damned severe orthopedic injuries. I'm pissed off that everyone is hard on her when she didn't ask for the undeserved heralds she received. I'm impressed with her public statements about how she didn't deserve the lauding - and how she felt used. She was used. She and the Tillman family have a lot on common. QuoteThe most recent Medal of Honor recipient barely got a 30 second news clip, Lynch has everything from a book deal on down, its disgusting. Yep. Again, these decisions made above her head. All political. QuoteI've seen countless incidents of true acts of valor being overlooked while people who accomplished nothing receive the praise and commendation. And those people who accomplished nothing aren't putting themselves out there for praise. Others are doing it. Quotepersonally been left hanging in the middle of an ambush while the person who was supposed to be watching my back did nothing. Absolutely. And it happens all the time. To me, this is a matter of training. Battle drills are supposed to be just those - drills. Conditioned responses for which no thought is needed. Operant conditioning. You point to a failure in training. I think it SUCKS that Lynch is being blamed for anything. She is the symbol of what is wrong with propoganda. She's not putting the propoganda out, though. She's merely the pretty face associated with it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnDeere 0 #14 October 12, 2009 QuoteI attribute that to piss poor training. It's not her fault that it wasn't drilled into her. Thats just silly! If you have a malfunction and pull the reserve handle first, then cut away and you have an entanglement, you gonna blame your FJC instructor? If you dont know how to operate your gear its your fault! Plane and simple. She was trained how to operate her gun. If she didnt understand it then its her fault for asking more question's or reading up on it.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #15 October 12, 2009 Quotebe angry with the military propaganda machine. and the media propaganda machine? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #16 October 12, 2009 Here's an historical note, which may or may not have analogous relevance: When JFK's PT-109 was cut in half by a Japanese destroyer, and he saw his crew through to rescue, he was made out to be a hero; and as we know, that stuck. However, many brass in the military, including General MacArthur, felt that the ramming could only have been successful because everyone who should have had the watch on the boat must have been either asleep or inexcusably inattentive when it happened. MacArthur felt that JFK should have been court-martialed for dereliction of duty. Had he not been Ambassador Kennedy's son, he might very well have been. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #17 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuotebe angry with the military propaganda machine. and the media propaganda machine? Now, now. They're only reporting what they're told or too lazy to be properly skeptical about.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #18 October 12, 2009 Yep, your mad because she didn't die. Got news for ye, Bud......not everyone thinks dying is so freakin' glorious. Maybe you get some kind of macho-man thrill from battle but don't call her a failure because she didn't die. Unless you were there next to her and KNOW FOR A FACT what she went through in those few moments then you have no right to say she messed up. You want someone to blame for the media frenzy, blame the media. If you are pissed because you aren't getting the attention someone else got, then you are fighting for the wrong reasons.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #19 October 12, 2009 Quote Quote Quote be angry with the military propaganda machine. and the media propaganda machine? Now, now. They're only reporting what they're told or too lazy to be properly skeptical about. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #20 October 12, 2009 QuoteIf you have a malfunction and pull the reserve handle first, then cut away and you have an entanglement, you gonna blame your FJC instructor? No. I'm gonna blame me. Good thing I've only got myself to look out for. However, there is something entirely different in the military. What are battle drills about? What about training? CTT? Validation? Heck, the whole company was ate up from the top on down, as evidenced by making a wrong turn. The troops need to be trained what to do. Some people have the instinct but not all have that. A bunch of maintenance folks on a convoy. Sadly, there is often insufficient training on these things with people who are not frequently training. In motor vehicle operations, the effectiveness of counterambush techniques is directly related to the state of training of the troops and the quality of the leadership. Thus, the driver of a vehicle should attempt to exit the kill zone. Non-driving personnel should be ordered to lay suppressive fire. If they cannot exit, they dismount, take defensive position and lay suppressive fire. Those that aren't in the kill zone stop, exit and await instructions. Most convoys and serials are at the damned mercy of the enemy and whatever a reaction force, gun truck support or arty/air support can give (what are the odds that anyone on that maintenance company knew how to call for air support or artillery? Note that transportation ops are not FM 7-8 tactics. There's a whole different ball game. And those who work under 7-8 practice it frequently. Battle Drills. React to Ambush. My primary MOS was 88A. Secondary 90A. I was also an Oberver/Controller, so I got a decent idea of what the general tactical convoy abilities of these sorta units were. They were awesome at performing their garrison missions. But tactical ops were lost. Troops don't know what to do in that situation? I blame the leadership for not training them. Leadership doesn't know what to do? I blame THEIR leadership for failing to train and/or recognize it. Motor vehicle operations - especially counterambush - place a premium on training and leadership. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likearock 2 #21 October 12, 2009 Quote And if you're wondering why this sits so heavy with me its because I've seen countless incidents of true acts of valor being overlooked while people who accomplished nothing receive the praise and commendation. Not to mention I've personally been left hanging in the middle of an ambush while the person who was supposed to be watching my back did nothing. So the type of failure I speak of in my posts nearly cost me my life and I don't look to highly upon it. As several others have said, your anger should be directed against those who manipulated the media rather than Lynch herself. Don't forget she was pretty badly injured during the initial assault. Maybe in your world someone with a broken arm and femur can still conduct themselves up to your standards, but most people in that kind of pain will be less than perfect. IMO, calling someone who made that kind of sacrifice for their country a failure is completely out of line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyChimp 0 #22 October 13, 2009 QuoteSo how does that translate to animosity towards Lynch, who at a minimum earned her purple heart? Say what you want about the media and the politicians but calling her a failure is disrespectful to all who serve. Hey rock... don't be a rock! Before you accuse me of saying she was a failure, be sure to read who the hell wrote that. I was stating the fact that I can see where he might perceive that because of the bias media. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyChimp 0 #23 October 13, 2009 QuoteWhat accomplishments? More Afghan civilians wounded or killed? Opium production at the highest levels in decades? To which accomplishments are you referring? Accomplishments from 2001 thru present as shown via Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present) Now you and I both know that regardless what you read on this link from Wikipedia, you will see the glass half empty on this war and I will see the glass half full. Perception is reality. Regarding your statement of Opium production being at the highest levels in "decades", how many decades are you refering to? I can only find a higher increase of opium production due to the economic crash in 2001 just prior to the war. Are you stating a summit in opium production the result of American troops??? Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airborne47 0 #24 October 13, 2009 Wow! You blame her for the media attention and false reports. As for the false repoting i can think of two names that probably had a lot more responsabialty. Cheney and Rumsfeld. Inabilaty to clear a weapon. Yep if it's not maintained and enough sand gets in it it's going to take a cleaning rod to get the bolt back. And if her weapon was cleared where was her firing port or platform? Personally i would.nt want someone sitting in the middle of the back seat in a vehicle aggresivly munaforing trying to fire! They would be far better off passing out magazines then shooting their own people because they're falling all over the place. And i would like to see you post a negative comment from her about the rescue force because i've only heard praise. WHICH WAS NOT CSAR!!!! There are only two units in the U.S. Milatary to which hostage rescue is their primary mission. And the fact that you don't know who they are speaks volumes!! SURE SHE'S NO HERO. JUST ANOTHER R.E.M.F. (REAR ECHALON MOTHER FUCKER) WHO GOT USED!!! What's new about that??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #25 October 13, 2009 QuoteWow! You blame her for the media attention and false reports. Uh . . . are you sure you're replying to the right person?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Belgian_Draft 0 #8 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuote I forget the story of that hard fighting US soldier who was so mistreated by the Iraquis after her capture. I also can't quite remember every heroic detail of her rescuers' efforts. Can anyone refresh my memory? Thanks. Blues, Cliff Why would we refresh your memory when you already know the whole story about how the Jessica Lynch mission was filmed in Hollywood somewhere? On a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. The fame she received was pathetic. She was rewarded for failing to do her job. Far greater soldiers have accomplished much more and received much less gratitude than she received. Sure " far greater soldiers have accomplished much more and received much less gratitude than she received", no argument there. But to call her a failure because she wasn't killed with the rest of her outfit is pretty lame.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #9 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuote I forget the story of that hard fighting US soldier who was so mistreated by the Iraquis after her capture. I also can't quite remember every heroic detail of her rescuers' efforts. Can anyone refresh my memory? Thanks. Blues, Cliff Why would we refresh your memory when you already know the whole story about how the Jessica Lynch mission was filmed in Hollywood somewhere? On a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. The fame she received was pathetic. She was rewarded for failing to do her job. Far greater soldiers have accomplished much more and received much less gratitude than she received. I didn't see the story - no interest, but she was slamming the whole mess for the story being misrepresented by the military last I heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #10 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteOn a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. That's pretty harsh. Yeah, she screwed up but it's not like she asked to be dragged into the side show. I don't know quade.... I can see his view point. We just lost one of our skydivers (Sgt Rob Sanchez) on October 1st in Afgan. by an IED. He fought many missions before his death and we never hear about the many soldiers and their acomplishments. I think it boils down to gender. Lynch is female and that was stimuli to the Press. End of story. So how does that translate to animosity towards Lynch, who at a minimum earned her purple heart? Say what you want about the media and the politicians but calling her a failure is disrespectful to all who serve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #11 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOn a serious note though Jessica Lynch is no hero, she is a failure. That's pretty harsh. Yeah, she screwed up but it's not like she asked to be dragged into the side show. I don't know quade.... I can see his view point. We just lost one of our skydivers (Sgt Rob Sanchez) on October 1st in Afgan. by an IED. He fought many missions before his death and we never hear about the many soldiers and their acomplishments. I think it boils down to gender. Lynch is female and that was stimuli to the Press. End of story. So how does that translate to animosity towards Lynch, who at a minimum earned her purple heart? Say what you want about the media and the politicians but calling her a failure is disrespectful to all who serve. Considering the person who called Jessica Lynch a failure is in the military himself(I'm talking about myself if you aren't quite sure) I doubt its a knock on all soldiers. Jessica Lynch surviving isn't a result of her heroism, its a result of her failing to do her job and trying to fight her way out of it. Other members of that convoy fought to the death and received little to no recognition for it, Lynch never fired a round and was made out to be the next Audie Murphy. To put it simply, she failed to do what she was trained to do. She admitted that when her weapon malfunctioned she was unable to perform the simple action required to bring it back into operation. If I ever had a soldier under me do that they would be flipping burgers at McDonald's before the ambuh was over. And the worst part about the whole situation was that she publicly slammed the forces that went in on the CSAR mission to bring her home. She said the soldiers that cleared the building where they found her traumatized her because of how agressively they cleared the building. The most recent Medal of Honor recipient barely got a 30 second news clip, Lynch has everything from a book deal on down, its disgusting. And if you're wondering why this sits so heavy with me its because I've seen countless incidents of true acts of valor being overlooked while people who accomplished nothing receive the praise and commendation. Not to mention I've personally been left hanging in the middle of an ambush while the person who was supposed to be watching my back did nothing. So the type of failure I speak of in my posts nearly cost me my life and I don't look to highly upon it.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #12 October 12, 2009 I think you really need to understand that she isn't the one that promoted her status as a "rescued hero"; it was the US military. She didn't ask for fame or book deals. The entire event was trumped up propaganda just like Tillman. I completely understand wanting more recognition to go to others that may have done more; no question, great idea. However, your anger is misplaced in focusing it at Lynch. You should be angry with the military propaganda machine.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #13 October 12, 2009 QuoteJessica Lynch surviving isn't a result of her heroism, its a result of her failing to do her job and trying to fight her way out of it. Other members of that convoy fought to the death and received little to no recognition for it, Lynch never fired a round and was made out to be the next Audie Murphy. I don't think it was her fault that she was made out to be the next Audie Murphy. Her biggest problem is that she was cute and blond and radio reports of a blonde soldier fighting to the death made people think it was her (it was actually Sgt. Donald Walter). Additionally, she is blamed for not firing a round. I've heard stories of a malfunction, etc. I attribute that to piss poor training. It's not her fault that it wasn't drilled into her. One of the other guys (his name escapes me) got a Silver Star. He said that he hadn't fired his weapon in 7 or 8 months before that. He similarly didn't fire a round until his vehicle broke. By that point, of course, she was the sole survivor in her Humvee - the others killed when it crashed. And she suffered some damned severe orthopedic injuries. I'm pissed off that everyone is hard on her when she didn't ask for the undeserved heralds she received. I'm impressed with her public statements about how she didn't deserve the lauding - and how she felt used. She was used. She and the Tillman family have a lot on common. QuoteThe most recent Medal of Honor recipient barely got a 30 second news clip, Lynch has everything from a book deal on down, its disgusting. Yep. Again, these decisions made above her head. All political. QuoteI've seen countless incidents of true acts of valor being overlooked while people who accomplished nothing receive the praise and commendation. And those people who accomplished nothing aren't putting themselves out there for praise. Others are doing it. Quotepersonally been left hanging in the middle of an ambush while the person who was supposed to be watching my back did nothing. Absolutely. And it happens all the time. To me, this is a matter of training. Battle drills are supposed to be just those - drills. Conditioned responses for which no thought is needed. Operant conditioning. You point to a failure in training. I think it SUCKS that Lynch is being blamed for anything. She is the symbol of what is wrong with propoganda. She's not putting the propoganda out, though. She's merely the pretty face associated with it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #14 October 12, 2009 QuoteI attribute that to piss poor training. It's not her fault that it wasn't drilled into her. Thats just silly! If you have a malfunction and pull the reserve handle first, then cut away and you have an entanglement, you gonna blame your FJC instructor? If you dont know how to operate your gear its your fault! Plane and simple. She was trained how to operate her gun. If she didnt understand it then its her fault for asking more question's or reading up on it.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 October 12, 2009 Quotebe angry with the military propaganda machine. and the media propaganda machine? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #16 October 12, 2009 Here's an historical note, which may or may not have analogous relevance: When JFK's PT-109 was cut in half by a Japanese destroyer, and he saw his crew through to rescue, he was made out to be a hero; and as we know, that stuck. However, many brass in the military, including General MacArthur, felt that the ramming could only have been successful because everyone who should have had the watch on the boat must have been either asleep or inexcusably inattentive when it happened. MacArthur felt that JFK should have been court-martialed for dereliction of duty. Had he not been Ambassador Kennedy's son, he might very well have been. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #17 October 12, 2009 QuoteQuotebe angry with the military propaganda machine. and the media propaganda machine? Now, now. They're only reporting what they're told or too lazy to be properly skeptical about.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #18 October 12, 2009 Yep, your mad because she didn't die. Got news for ye, Bud......not everyone thinks dying is so freakin' glorious. Maybe you get some kind of macho-man thrill from battle but don't call her a failure because she didn't die. Unless you were there next to her and KNOW FOR A FACT what she went through in those few moments then you have no right to say she messed up. You want someone to blame for the media frenzy, blame the media. If you are pissed because you aren't getting the attention someone else got, then you are fighting for the wrong reasons.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #19 October 12, 2009 Quote Quote Quote be angry with the military propaganda machine. and the media propaganda machine? Now, now. They're only reporting what they're told or too lazy to be properly skeptical about. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #20 October 12, 2009 QuoteIf you have a malfunction and pull the reserve handle first, then cut away and you have an entanglement, you gonna blame your FJC instructor? No. I'm gonna blame me. Good thing I've only got myself to look out for. However, there is something entirely different in the military. What are battle drills about? What about training? CTT? Validation? Heck, the whole company was ate up from the top on down, as evidenced by making a wrong turn. The troops need to be trained what to do. Some people have the instinct but not all have that. A bunch of maintenance folks on a convoy. Sadly, there is often insufficient training on these things with people who are not frequently training. In motor vehicle operations, the effectiveness of counterambush techniques is directly related to the state of training of the troops and the quality of the leadership. Thus, the driver of a vehicle should attempt to exit the kill zone. Non-driving personnel should be ordered to lay suppressive fire. If they cannot exit, they dismount, take defensive position and lay suppressive fire. Those that aren't in the kill zone stop, exit and await instructions. Most convoys and serials are at the damned mercy of the enemy and whatever a reaction force, gun truck support or arty/air support can give (what are the odds that anyone on that maintenance company knew how to call for air support or artillery? Note that transportation ops are not FM 7-8 tactics. There's a whole different ball game. And those who work under 7-8 practice it frequently. Battle Drills. React to Ambush. My primary MOS was 88A. Secondary 90A. I was also an Oberver/Controller, so I got a decent idea of what the general tactical convoy abilities of these sorta units were. They were awesome at performing their garrison missions. But tactical ops were lost. Troops don't know what to do in that situation? I blame the leadership for not training them. Leadership doesn't know what to do? I blame THEIR leadership for failing to train and/or recognize it. Motor vehicle operations - especially counterambush - place a premium on training and leadership. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #21 October 12, 2009 Quote And if you're wondering why this sits so heavy with me its because I've seen countless incidents of true acts of valor being overlooked while people who accomplished nothing receive the praise and commendation. Not to mention I've personally been left hanging in the middle of an ambush while the person who was supposed to be watching my back did nothing. So the type of failure I speak of in my posts nearly cost me my life and I don't look to highly upon it. As several others have said, your anger should be directed against those who manipulated the media rather than Lynch herself. Don't forget she was pretty badly injured during the initial assault. Maybe in your world someone with a broken arm and femur can still conduct themselves up to your standards, but most people in that kind of pain will be less than perfect. IMO, calling someone who made that kind of sacrifice for their country a failure is completely out of line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #22 October 13, 2009 QuoteSo how does that translate to animosity towards Lynch, who at a minimum earned her purple heart? Say what you want about the media and the politicians but calling her a failure is disrespectful to all who serve. Hey rock... don't be a rock! Before you accuse me of saying she was a failure, be sure to read who the hell wrote that. I was stating the fact that I can see where he might perceive that because of the bias media. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #23 October 13, 2009 QuoteWhat accomplishments? More Afghan civilians wounded or killed? Opium production at the highest levels in decades? To which accomplishments are you referring? Accomplishments from 2001 thru present as shown via Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present) Now you and I both know that regardless what you read on this link from Wikipedia, you will see the glass half empty on this war and I will see the glass half full. Perception is reality. Regarding your statement of Opium production being at the highest levels in "decades", how many decades are you refering to? I can only find a higher increase of opium production due to the economic crash in 2001 just prior to the war. Are you stating a summit in opium production the result of American troops??? Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airborne47 0 #24 October 13, 2009 Wow! You blame her for the media attention and false reports. As for the false repoting i can think of two names that probably had a lot more responsabialty. Cheney and Rumsfeld. Inabilaty to clear a weapon. Yep if it's not maintained and enough sand gets in it it's going to take a cleaning rod to get the bolt back. And if her weapon was cleared where was her firing port or platform? Personally i would.nt want someone sitting in the middle of the back seat in a vehicle aggresivly munaforing trying to fire! They would be far better off passing out magazines then shooting their own people because they're falling all over the place. And i would like to see you post a negative comment from her about the rescue force because i've only heard praise. WHICH WAS NOT CSAR!!!! There are only two units in the U.S. Milatary to which hostage rescue is their primary mission. And the fact that you don't know who they are speaks volumes!! SURE SHE'S NO HERO. JUST ANOTHER R.E.M.F. (REAR ECHALON MOTHER FUCKER) WHO GOT USED!!! What's new about that??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #25 October 13, 2009 QuoteWow! You blame her for the media attention and false reports. Uh . . . are you sure you're replying to the right person?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
