Should lesbian student be allowed to wear tux in yearbook photo?

[Andy9o8 2]

http://news.aol.com/article/lesbian-student-ceara-sturgis-fights-for/720190

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Lesbian Student Fights for Tuxedo Photo
By SHELIA BYRD, AP

JACKSON, Miss. (Oct. 15) - Everyone at Wesson Attendance Center knows 17-year-old Ceara Sturgis is gay because she's never tried to hide it.

But when Sturgis — an honor student, trumpet player and goalie on the school's soccer team — wanted her senior photograph in a tuxedo used in the 2009-10 yearbook, school officials balked. Traditionally, female students dress in drapes and males wear tuxedos.

Now, the American Civil Liberties Union of Mississippi has gotten involved, issuing a demand letter to Principal Ronald Greer to publish the picture of Sturgis in the tuxedo. The ACLU says it's giving the school until Oct. 23 to respond before pursuing court action, said Kristy L. Bennett, the ACLU's legal director.

A secretary for Greer referred questions to Copiah County Schools Superintendent Rickey Clopton, who declined to comment on Thursday.

Sturgis said she should get to decide how she looks in the senior photo.
"I feel like I'm not important, that the school is dismissing who I am as a gay student and that they don't even care about me. All I want is to be able to be me, and to be included in the yearbook," Sturgis said in a statement.

Veronica Rodriguez, 47, said school officials are trying to force her daughter — who doesn't even own a dress — to appear more feminine.

"The tux is who she is. She wears boys' clothes. She's athletic. She's gay. She's not feminine," said Rodriguez during an interview Thursday at the ACLU office.
Rodriguez said Sturgis took her pictures over the summer instead of with the other students last year, but she used the same studio.

In August, Rodriguez said she received a letter from the school stating that only boys could wear tuxedos. Rodriguez said she met with assistant Superintendent Ronald Holloway who told her he didn't see regulations about the issue in the student handbook.

But when she talked with Greer, she said he told her it was his "conviction" that Sturgis wouldn't appear in the yearbook in a tuxedo.

Bennett said the teenager's constitutional rights are being violated. Bennett said similar cases, including same-sex prom couples and girls wearing tuxedos to proms, have been successfully challenged in court in other states. ACLU officials said they were unaware of any other constitutional disputes involving gay teens at Mississippi schools.

"You can't discriminate against somebody because they're not masculine enough or because they're not feminine enough. She's making an expression of her sexual orientation through this picture and that invokes First Amendment protection," Bennett said.

There's no state policy that deals with the yearbook photo issue, said state Department of Education spokesman Pete Smith.

[lawrocket 3]

Sure she should be allowed.

Too bad we live in a world where both the left and the right feel that the individual is responsible to society.

On that note, she better suck it up. We are not allowed to think in our own self interest in this country. We are responsible to everybody else.

She should be a proper wench, wear a dress, get married and make babies.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jcd11235 0]

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Too bad we live in a world where both the left and the right feel that the individual is responsible to society.

That's completely irrelevant to this discussion. Individuals can be responsible to society and still exercise their individual rights.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[metalslug 36]

I think this may be more of a dress code issue than a gay rights issue.
If a male student wanted his yearbook photo taken while wearing a ladies evening gown and stilettos, would that be OK too?

There are many schools in other parts of the world that have a uniform dress code, specific styles and specific colors representative of the school. If a gay male at my old school decided to wear a girls uniform, complete with skirt, because he felt a constitutional right to express his effeminate nature, I'm pretty sure it would have been a serious problem.

So how does it work in the US? How much authority does a school have to enforce a specific dress code?
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

[Baksteen 84]

I think she should be allowed to wear the tux, but I also think that both sides are way overreacting.

What's the big deal?

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[nigel99 489]

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I think this may be more of a dress code issue than a gay rights issue.
If a male student wanted his yearbook photo taken while wearing a ladies evening gown and stilettos, would that be OK too?

There are many schools in other parts of the world that have a uniform dress code, specific styles and specific colors representative of the school. If a gay male at my old school decided to wear a girls uniform, complete with skirt, because he felt a constitutional right to express his effeminate nature, I'm pretty sure it would have been a serious problem.

So how does it work in the US? How much authority does a school have to enforce a specific dress code?
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

I tend to agree that this is more dress code than anything else. When the 300lb naturist wants his right to have his yearbook photo in the nude what happens then?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[format 1]

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When the 300lb naturist wants his right to have his yearbook photo in the nude what happens then?

THE Disaster!

I will never ever watch anybody's any kind of book. Just in case.

What goes around, comes later.

[pirana 0]

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I think she should be allowed to wear the tux, but I also think that both sides are way overreacting.

What's the big deal?

At the least; they are being very narrow, or maybe it irritates their sense of tradition. At worst, they are threatened by it - which is the worse of the two since that can drive people to do very nasty things.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[DougH 270]

This is a tough question for me to anwser.

I thought that she should be able to wear a tux if she wanted to. Then I thought about the reverse, that I wouldn't want a guy wearing a dress in his school picture for any reason.

This is an obvious double standard.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[nigel99 489]

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When the 300lb naturist wants his right to have his yearbook photo in the nude what happens then?

THE Disaster!

I will never ever watch anybody's any kind of book. Just in case.

Precisely - I nearly used a hot blond naturist and then realised that would unfairly bias the results towards "no problem" and secondly from what little exposure I've had to nude beaches you don't get "hot" naturists

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[lawrocket 3]

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Too bad we live in a world where both the left and the right feel that the individual is responsible to society.

That's completely irrelevant to this discussion. Individuals can be responsible to society and still exercise their individual rights.

Except when society tells them not to, right? Seems like society and the government (the principal) is telling her that her right to expression will not be tolerated since it is at odds.

Not irrelevant. You may choose to ignore it, though.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[NewGuy2005 53]

It all depends.... Is she hot??

[rhaig 0]

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I think this may be more of a dress code issue than a gay rights issue.
If a male student wanted his yearbook photo taken while wearing a ladies evening gown and stilettos, would that be OK too?

Dress code issues in schools are justified by saying that varying from the dress code is disruptive to class and the learning environment. I can get behind that to a point. However, a yearbook photo is not disruptive to class.

The "naturalist" argument is a typical fringe informatory point. It's hardly worth addressing, but would be covered under the yearbook's standards on what they will allow to be published. They have them. Hell, 25 years ago we had them when I was in high school.

And if a high school transvestite wanted his pic taken in a dress, I don't see the problem either.

--
Rob

[Skyrad 0]

Why not? Of course she should be allowed to.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rehmwa 2]

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She's making an expression of her sexual orientation through this picture and that invokes First Amendment protection,"

an expression of her sexual orientation would be to have sex with another girl....wearing clothes is an expression of not being naked - it's shallow and childish to relate the two as equivalent -

however, this is a 17 year old child - so that's not surprising

- if some straight karate student wanted to wear his uniform in the pictures, why should the attention be any more or less intense? why should the arguments be any different in any way?

1 - She should be allowed to wear what she wants here because it's just plain not a big deal

2 - trying to invoke this by abusing First Amendment interpretations is a joke - this isn't speech, it's just clothes

if people can get their heads around #1, then crap like #2 wouldn't have to be invoked so much - it's really very simple and people would be happier if they just kept it simple

(This argument for me is pretty rote and it's independent of the buzzword subject - when people make a big deal out of random stuff and want to be activist by tying it into 'free speech' arguments - I always question whether their purpose is the subject itself, or just that they want to make a stink for stink's sake, especially with children that likely crave attention - I find the best 'speech' for a topic is to just comfortably live your life as you choose and not shout it to the world - the first sets an example, the 2nd ends up being counterproductive)



Edit: I can't vote for either choice, because I don't know if the school would uphold the dress code for the karate student (or equivalent) example in an equal way. I can assume, but that's not good enough. However, if the lawyer can prove the 'karate student' could wear his jammies in the photo but his client can't wear the tux - then the discussion moves to the next level under terms of unequal treatment for arbitrary reasons (ie. it would then be unfair to single her out for whatever reason)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

I don't care if a man wants to wear a dress and a women wants to wear a suit ... just cover the bits and pieces.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[shah269 0]

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It all depends.... Is she hot??

+1!
Who cares!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[metalslug 36]

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Dress code issues in schools are justified by saying that varying from the dress code is disruptive to class and the learning environment.

If that is the limit of the reasoning behind dress codes in U.S. schools, then I accept your argument and I will support this student's position.
However, if a dress code is also an extension of a school's image, then that needs to be considered.

If you look at the yearbooks of the more 'prestigious' schools and universities from around the world, you are unlikely to find crossdresser portraits.
Some dress codes can be compared to etiquette. Poor etiquette is everyone's legal right, protected by the constitution, but it usually won't do well for the reputation of the institution that allows poor etiquette by individuals.
It is therefore understandable that schools can feel uncomfortable regarding this student's wishes.

[Remster 30]

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Dress code issues in schools are justified by saying that varying from the dress code is disruptive to class and the learning environment.

If that is the limit of the reasoning behind dress codes in U.S. schools, then I accept your argument and I will support this student's position.
However, if a dress code is also an extension of a school's image, then that needs to be considered.

If you look at the yearbooks of the more 'prestigious' schools and universities from around the world, you are unlikely to find crossdresser portraits.
Some dress codes can be compared to etiquette. Poor etiquette is everyone's legal right, protected by the constitution, but it usually won't do well for the reputation of the institution that allows poor etiquette by individuals.
It is therefore understandable that schools can feel uncomfortable regarding this student's wishes.

I'm a lot less positive about the overall impression. It really, really, really replaced substance with flash.

The result page on Omniskore had everything you wanted to follow the comp: scores, scorecards, and some videos. In one place. I dont have all day to watch streaming video or fast forward though 10 videos to see what I want to see. If I ever get to see it (ie scorcards).

Remster

[wmw999 2,452]

So they're using Omniskore and Cam-Score for high school yearbooks now? That's growing your market!

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[shropshire 0]

My 1st thought was ; Let her.

But then again, is it a group or solo photo?

If it's a group then the rest of the folks in the picture have the right to decide who is in their picture.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[marks2065 0]

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My 1st thought was ; Let her.

But then again, is it a group or solo photo?

If it's a group then the rest of the folks in the picture have the right to decide who is in their picture.

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this is a democacy, let the students and faculty vote. cannot argue with a majority in a democracy. well I think that holds true only if the liberals shut up and go away.

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[billvon 2,998]

>cannot argue with a majority in a democracy.

You can, actually. We have this thing called the Bill of Rights (and a few other documents) that trumps mob rule. No matter how many people vote for it, you can't ban Christianity (or Islam.)

>well I think that holds true only if the liberals shut up and go away.

Indeed. Fortunately, us liberals support the constitution over mob rule. (Which, BTW, has almost nothing to do with this issue.)

[rehmwa 2]

another aspect - is it a public or private school.....?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[BillyVance 34]

There was a story out of Georgia of a male student that likes to dress like a woman, wearing wigs, make up and female shoes. The school suspended him when he refused to change to appear more masculine.

I know... crazy shit. I would be more concerned with the individual being a distraction than anything else, and that is what the school system should consider in conjunction with the student's rights.

I have seen students from my time in high school that looked like they could pass for the other sex if they chose to dress the other way, but maybe that era (early to mid 80's), it just wasn't accepted.

Only in the last decade or so have I seen stories in the media of students being disciplined for their wardrobe choices, etc.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban