86 yr old WWII veteran speaks about gay marriage

[airborne47 0]

P.S.
Dinner's done. The dishes are done and put away so it's time to go out.
Have a good night!

[Amazon 7]

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Wow now i'm a GOOD OL BOY because i have a different opinion but respect yours!
Doesn't civic have something to do with the word civil?
And yet you sink to personale attacks when someone disagrees with you!
That's one thing i love about your crowd. You preach respect for deversaty.
And yet when someone wants to be different then you.
You lose all respect and make personale attacks. And then can't understand why others don't respect your opinion!
Go figure.

QUACK QUACK QUACK

when it walks like a duck,,,, and makes noises like a duck... it must be a yeti.

Sorry bubba.. I calls em as I sees em

[Shell666 0]

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Well then i guess that means you do not view women as eguals.
As it says ALL MEN ARE CREATED EGUAL

I believe it's the Declaration of Independence that states that, not the Constitution.

A quick google on the Constitution says this (note the use of the word "person")

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Definitely not gender specific.

BIG OUCH

When a canadian girl gives one of the American good ole boys an American civics lesson

Good one Shell

Well I DID learn all I know about American civics from Alex Trebek!

'Shell

[airborne47 0]

Geez you crack me up. You really do! First i'm a good ol boy. Now i'm Bubba!
At least Billivon made me think with their reasonable arguments/debate.
I still have my opinion but respect theirs! You on the other hand want to jump in and make personale attacks!
Which is pretty easy to do. But tell me would you defend even those you disagree with?
Most Veterans are familure with the saying.Although i disagree with your opinion. I would defend with my life your right to say it.
Tell me do you feel the same? I know for a fact if i was going by some gay rights protest and some nutcase opened fire.
I would try to help even at risk to myself rather i agreed with the people or not.
Would you for a group of people with which you disagreed?
Have you ever put your life on the line because you belived your country and (all) of it's people worthy of defending?
Have you ever rolled in the dirt with an armed aponient who want despertly to kill you?
I've been there! done that and got the tat and the scarers to show in the bars!!!!!!!!!!!
So if you want to disagree with me that's fine. And if you want to insult me that's also ok.
But good ol boy and Bubba are way out of line and just show how truly sorry you really are!
Below is a little something i wrote years ago. A good ol boy or Bubba would defeniatly not have such feelings. (about some black kid from the hood)
But what's really funny is the FACT that i would still defend you and your right to express your opinion with my life!!!!!!
I REMEMBER
When you were first assigned to my unit
When I first met your sweet beautiful young wife
And little boy
How you avoided the gangs.
And the drugs that surrounded you
How badly you wanted your wife and son
To be free of that life
How you always had a smile
No matter what
How I trained you to be a soldier
And led you
How hard you tried
And how well you did
How I left you to carry on.
When I got out
How sick I felt
When you were killed in action
How I wished I could have been there
To cover your back
How guilty I felt
That I was not
How bad I felt for your widowed bride
And fatherless son
How you were a good man
Husband
Father
And soldier
How high the price is that the few pay
For the many who don’t really care
How I hoped you at least died like a soldier
With honor
Covering and saving others
How I hoped you weren’t just simply shot without warning
Or blown to pieces by a mine
How I tried to suck it up
And soldier on
How the tears came anyway
Despite my attempt to be strong
How despite our differences
You were my brother
Whom I trusted and loved like no other

[Amazon 7]

QUACK QUACK QUACK


When it sounds like it and makes noises like it.. I guess in your world its something else

That seems to happen a lot around here.

And yes.. I did 8 years serving my country.

I walked in on two macho types goin at it in the day room back in 1974 and just walked on by. It was before don't ask dont tell and the time of dishonorable discharges for those kinds of activity. IT was their business.. I was very surprised.. but it had ZERO effect on my life... so why affect theirs.

You CLAIM to support your fellow Americans... yet you reserve the right to deny them the same rights you demand for yourself. That my utterly mistaken friend is called BIGOTRY.

[airborne47 0]

Ok you wore the uniform. THANK YOU FOR THAT!! But were you a R.E.M.F. or combat arms?
And as far as rights i demand for myself. I'm forty eight and still single.
So obviosly i don't feel marriage is such a great instution!
And if you read my earlyer replies you would know that i do not think too highly of it as an instution.
(i mean really you can get married one day and devorced the next. So how sacred is that?)
But i do regonize that (some people) believe it to be a sacred instution.
And due to historical president they deserve to have their believes/instutions respected.
And my only argument is that i do not believe gay marriage to be a constitutional right for all.
So i believe both groups worthy of defending even though i don't support either.
If you want to insist that it is in fact a constitutional right.
Then do you also believe the Mormans were denied their constitutional rights when the government said they could not have multible wifes?
Or that the father who wants to marry his really hot 18 year old daughter is being denied his constitionall right?
Seriosly if you want to insist that everyone should have the same rights where do you stop?
In the Phillipines the age of consent is 12 should some guy who goes there and marries a child be allowed to bring HIS WIFE to this country?
Would you place any limits on people at all or simply say anyone should be allowed to do anything they want?
These are seriose questions! I'm not just trying to be flipiant.

[Amazon 7]

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Ok you wore the uniform. THANK YOU FOR THAT!! But were you a R.E.M.F. or combat arms?
And as far as rights i demand for myself. I'm forty eight and still single.
So obviosly i don't feel marriage is such a great instution!
And if you read my earlyer replies you would know that i do not think too highly of it as an instution.
(i mean really you can get married one day and devorced the next. So how sacred is that?)
But i do regonize that (some people) believe it to be a sacred instution.
And due to historical president they deserve to have their believes/instutions respected.
And my only argument is that i do not believe gay marriage to be a constitutional right for all.
So i believe both groups worthy of defending even though i don't support either.
If you want to insist that it is in fact a constitutional right.
Then do you also believe the Mormans were denied their constitutional rights when the government said they could not have multible wifes?
Or that the father who wants to marry his really hot 18 year old daughter is being denied his constitionall right?
Seriosly if you want to insist that everyone should have the same rights where do you stop?
In the Phillipines the age of consent is 12 should some guy who goes there and marries a child be allowed to bring HIS WIFE to this country?
Would you place any limits on people at all or simply say anyone should be allowed to do anything they want?
These are seriose questions! I'm not just trying to be flipiant.

SERE Instructor Nam era
Ft Benning grad and jump status 5 years
Flight status 3 years

It really is good you do realize the "sanctity" of marriage is pretty much a hollow fantasy for most people... since most people in this country have be sanctified and then unsanctified ... many of them more than once.

If the mormons want to live in a plural marriage.. it .... AGAIN has no effect on me.. let them have as many sister wives as they would like.. as long as I have the right to have a polyandrous relationship if I want.

Whether you like it or not.. even gay people in a long term relationship refer to themselves as married. Its a term that is commonly used by two people who have made a commitment to each other. But I guess its ok for us NORMAL people to deny them that in YOUR mind.

I dont now where you guys keep digging up the incest crap... where the ehll do you come up with that anyway.... I notice its only the guys who keep doing that.

[airborne47 0]

AGAIN THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND WELCOME HOME.
As to where the insest thing comes from. If you read my earler replies you would know it's from the bible.
Which i believe to be a pretty sick and twisted story.
After all if god created Adam and Eve then the world came to an end.
Unless something real sick and twisted went on. So i also can't stand the religiose fanatics who want to say god created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.
And as far as (us) straight people.
Are you just going to assume i'm straight because i don't believe the meaning of the word marriage should be redefined for the sake of a few.
But that ALL people deserve respect and equale treatment?
And if (some) straight people have an instution which is sacred to them.
We should not try to redefine it's meaning for the sake of a few.
But insteade come up with SOMETHING) which also protects the few?

[Amazon 7]

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AGAIN THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND WELCOME HOME.
As to where the insest thing comes from. If you read my earler replies you would know it's from the bible.
Which i believe to be a pretty sick and twisted story.
After all if god created Adam and Eve then the world came to an end.
Unless something real sick and twisted went on. So i also can't stand the religiose fanatics who want to say god created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.
And as far as (us) straight people.
Are you just going to assume i'm straight because i don't believe the meaning of the word marriage should be redefined for the sake of a few.
But that ALL people deserve respect and equale treatment?
And if (some) straight people have an instution which is sacred to them.
We should not try to redefine it's meaning for the sake of a few.
But insteade come up with SOMETHING) which also protects the few?

As I put in the PM... I think you will find that marriage may be thousands of years old.. BUT... our species has been "doing it" for far longer.... where in most cases it was whatever the male could get away with ... with whichever female he could overpower. yup now there is some wonderful tradition for ya. Marriage in most societies forms the basis of the man being able to reserve exclusivity so there is no question of the paternity of HIS children. At the same time there were cultures throughout history have found that relationships between men were the only TRUE form of love... and with women..well we were just for procreation and that was all.

As far as you being straight or not.. I don't know very many gay people.. but those I do know are not willing to sound like your position and be just peachy keen with being 2nd class citizens... I suppose there are some of the deluded Log Cabin types who will parrot that crap from their closeted lives while they are hanging out with their rePUBICan buddies at the country club

For what it’s worth... the 86 year old that this thread is about... who has a gay son and does not believe he fought for the right for his son to be a second class citizen... really does GET IT... it’s good to see that some VETERANS really do get it.

Many others don't as evidenced by several here in this thread.

[airborne47 0]

F.Y.I. i'm not a republican or a democrat as i refuse to blindly support a PARTY.
As that gave us Hitler and Stalin and some other really nice people.
But it doesn't matter what i say as you are not interested in honest discussion/debate.
But simply want to make personale attacks on anyone who has an opinion different then yours.
(Can we spell bigot?)
And as for your pm about gay people at Snohomish
So what?
I don't care in the least if they know i don't believe that the word marriage should be redefined.
But i do FULLY believe their HUMAN rights should be protected.
Just because i do not believe that gay marriage is a Constitutional right does not make me anti gay.
But of course that's a different opinion then yours and thereforth wrong!
As i said at least Billivon made me think with their reasonable and respectful discussion/debate.
While you are simply annoying! I am perfectly willing to discuss/debate my beliefes in a respectful manner with anyone.
And if we continue to disagree i can still respect them.
It is through that manner which conflict and differences are resolved.
So i'm done wasting my time putting up with your petty little attacks.
You don't need to pm me any more because i'll just ignore them.

[jcd11235 0]

I'm not sure what I find more disconcerting, that so many illogical arguments are being made to rationalize withholding marriage rights based on gender preference or that so many people don't recognize the arguments as illogical.

At least the 86 year old WWII vet gets it.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Amazon 7]

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F.Y.I. i'm not a republican or a democrat as i refuse to blindly support a PARTY.
As that gave us Hitler and Stalin and some other really nice people.
But it doesn't matter what i say as you are not interested in honest discussion/debate.
But simply want to make personale attacks on anyone who has an opinion different then yours.
(Can we spell bigot?)
And as for your pm about gay people at Snohomish
So what?
I don't care in the least if they know i don't believe that the word marriage should be redefined.
But i do FULLY believe their HUMAN rights should be protected.
Just because i do not believe that gay marriage is a Constitutional right does not make me anti gay. QUACK QUACK QUACK
But of course that's a different opinion then yours and thereforth wrong!
As i said at least Billivon made me think with their reasonable and respectful discussion/debate.
While you are simply annoying! I am perfectly willing to discuss/debate my beliefes in a respectful manner with anyone.
And if we continue to disagree i can still respect them.
It is through that manner which conflict and differences are resolved.
So i'm done wasting my time putting up with your petty little attacks.
You don't need to pm me any more because i'll just ignore them.

Dont worry.. You are blocked

Wow.. that is a whole lot of whining..awww poor baby..... "personale"
Nice to know you fought for the right to exclude your fellow Americans from THEIR rights

The old guy didn't


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_YsqGS7CJ0

[DARK 0]

airborne, quick question

lets say it dosnt take place in a church and no1 forces churches to let gay people marry unless those churches want to allow them to. what is the problem with calling it marriage?

[tkhayes 348]

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You say we should allow everyone to marry. Does that mean mothers should be able to marry their sons?

no one is asking for incestual marriages be legalized

[Caitlin89 0]

"And my only argument is that i do not believe gay marriage to be a constitutional right for all."

You keep repeating this. Marriage is not, in the constitution, promised to ANY person-- gay, straight, black, white, orange, yellow. It does not mention marriage. Should we make all marriages illegal, because that is what your only argument is suggesting...?

[airborne47 0]

Actually Billvon replyed that it should be allowed. Page 17 down just a bit.
And while my computer skills are not good enough to check.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there is some group out there that wants to do so.
Are you POSITIVE that no such people exists? And if we change the laws to acomidate one group of people. Should we then deny others the same RIghts?

[airborne47 0]

Good to see we agree. Marriage is not a constitutional right!
And making marriages illegal would certianly solve the high devoce rate!
That might actually be a good idea to do away with that outdated instution!
But we live in the real world and that's not going to happen.
So i'm not going to jump aboard that train.
And the reason i keep repeated that it's not a constitutional right is because.
That's what i said originaly which got everyone so upset!
Do you expect me to now say something different just because saying that upset someone?
Should i now say it is?
If you want to say gays not being allowed to marry is unfair.
Then i would 100% AGREE!!! But so what? Since when has life been fair?
What's fair about the fact that i can freely have sex with other men if i want.
But people are imprisioned and put to death for it in other countries?
Personally i learned a long time ago that life was unfair.

[labrys 0]

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What's fair about the fact that i can freely have sex with other men if i want.

It's all good, dude. It's all fair. At least you got that off your chest in an accepting, non judgmental environment.

Owned by Remi #?

[airborne47 0]

What do you think i got off my chest in a non judgemental enviroment?
I simply said i could if i want! Rather or not i do is no one elses bussiness.
As i don't think what others do is my bussiness. But as i said before i'm tired of hearing everyone say they have a constitutional right to whatever they want.
(the most annoying (to me) are the illegal aliens)
And that is the comment i responded to which some felt to be an attack on gays.

[jcd11235 0]

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Marriage is not a constitutional right!

You may want to take another look at Amendment 9 before you reach such a conclusion.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[airborne47 0]

Ok i took a look. Where does it say marriage is a right? (for any group)
Perhaps you could copy and paste it!

[jcd11235 0]

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Ok i took a look. Where does it say marriage is a right? (for any group)
Perhaps you could copy and paste it!

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

In other words, not being explicitly mentioned as a right in the Constitution does not imply something is not a Constitutionally protected right.

I haven't checked case law to see how the SCOTUS views marriage, but I would not be a bit surprised to see it viewed as a right.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[airborne47 0]

That's fine but as of right now it's not viewed as such
by the courts or we wouldn't be having this debate.
If and when that changes then you can call it as such.
But those decicions are not made by me and you. I personally really don't give a shit!
As i have made it pretty clear i'm no big fan of marriage.
But i can understand where others are coming from and respect their opinions as well.
When the supreme court finally rules it to be a constitutional right i will have no problem accepting that. (or congress ratifies it)
And i'm sure that will eventually happen! How i feel about it or what i think has no relavence whatsoever.
But i will not say it to be a constitutional right before that happens.
And will say it is not to those who say it is! Neither your interpatation or mine carries the weight of law.
And to think just because you interpet it that way it is so is pretty self rightious in my opinion.
I am not saying it's not based only on my interpatation or personale desire. But based on CURRENT law.
I really don't care if it happens or not. But will respect and accept the law.
And as for gay people. I have made it very clear i think they should have the same protections as straights.
This is not an anti gay argument! It is about constitutional rights.
And the current definition of the word marriage. Neither me nor you make either of those decisions.
Just thinking or wanting it to be so does not make it so.

[jcd11235 0]

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And to think just because you interpet it that way it is so is pretty self rightious in my opinion.

Understanding the meaning and recognizing possible implications of the ninth amendment is "pretty self righteous" in your mind? I find that to be rather sad.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 2,990]

>That's fine but as of right now it's not viewed as such by the courts or
>we wouldn't be having this debate.

In some places it is. In Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, and Vermont, gay marriage is legal. In California, there are tens of thousands of legally married gay couples; right now there can't be any _new_ gay marriages though. In Maine it is currently legal but is on hold pending a vote in November. In New Hampshire same-sex marriages will be legal starting in January. In New York, Washington, D.C. and California, marriages from other states are legal no matter what the sex of the couple.

So that's 8 states where it is either legal, about to be legal or legally recognized.

There are also a number of states with strong laws _against_ gay marriage. Not coincidentally, these are the same states that most strongly opposed interracial marriages in the 1950's.

>I am not saying it's not based only on my interpatation or personale desire.
>But based on CURRENT law.

Currently there is no federal law that prohibits same-sex marriage, so it is as legal from a federal perspective as, say, paragliding.