Political Warfare-Will there be a civil war based on ideological lines?

[warpedskydiver 0]

Well some others have posted that they believe that a war is looming on the horizon. Apparently they believe the conservatives are going to start civil unrest and follow up with shootings.

To date I can recall a few ideologically motivated shootings, however the basis of conservatism was not the motivating factor.

Who amongst you will actually say they truly believe the conservatives are going to start killing fellow Americans over the growing divide of ideals?

[warpedskydiver 0]

Personally I do not think it would happen, at least not by the conservatives hand.

Of course that does not mean they would not finish it.

Revolting against politics in a violent fashion has long been the turf of the ideological zealot liberal.

They embrace Fidel, Che Guevara, Mao, Chavez, and a few others as well.


It seems to be that even the POTUS wanted to foment fear of the conservatives when he exclaimed that people cling to their guns and religion.

I was listening to our Bishop who holds several PhD s.

He was speaking of the parallels of Germany in 1932 and what we are seeing in the USA now.

His comments were focused on the fact that so many people say, well Obama and his ilk do not seem to be so bad.

Why is it that at every turn we see this administration and it's rapid followers to embrace stripping others of their freedoms/rights because they do not agree with them?

If you do not believe in the 2nd Amendment, why do you think the others should have that right removed?

If yo do not believe in religion or god, why do you want others from believing or practicing their faith?

If you believe in free speech why do you want others stifled?

What is fair about being unfair or removing what is the right or freedom of others?

I do not want to practice homosexual behavior, but I think if someone else wants to without infringing upon another go for it.

I do not think everyone should have to own a firearm, if you don't want to, fine. Just don't insist on others having that right removed.

If you want to do drugs, I don't care as long as you don't harm others.

If you want to commit suicide, go ahead, as long as you do not harm others.

If you want to refuse military service, fine, just don't insist on others doing as you do.

If you think we should leave AQ alone, fine, just do not ask for protection from them.

There are many examples I can think of but why is it that the people who voted for Obama want to restrict the rights and freedoms of others.

Why do they think that conservatives will commit civil warfare?

This is a serious topic and one that needs to be answered thoughtfully and without derisive remarks or jokes, so please if you have nothing to contribute, stay out of it.

I am not saying if you have other ideas you cannot voice them, I just don't want the usual offenders to attempt destroying what could be a good debate.

[birdshit 0]

warped, what the hell are you talking about? I don't recall any of the things you are talking about being discussed!? 2nd amendment being repealed? Huh? How are us "rabid, marxist, socialist, neo-nazi liberals stifling free speech? How are the dems preventing you from worshiping?

Are you on drugs?

Edit to add: when the revolution starts, call me. I would gladly serve my country and take it back from the politicians and the corporations.

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Well some others have posted that they believe that a war is looming on the horizon. Apparently they believe the conservatives are going to start civil unrest and follow up with shootings.

To date I can recall a few ideologically motivated shootings, however the basis of conservatism was not the motivating factor.

Who amongst you will actually say they truly believe the conservatives are going to start killing fellow Americans over the growing divide of ideals?

I don't know how likely it is but it would not suprise me if it were to happen. The amount of hatred and intollerance some people have towards their fellow citizens never ceases to amaze me (not aimed at the OP) there is also a stuborn refusal to even try and understand the other side in the firm belife that one is right simply because they believe themselves to be so.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 2]

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Revolting against politics in a violent fashion has long been the turf of the ideological zealot liberal. They embrace Fidel, Che Guevara, Mao, Chavez, and a few others as well.

Historically, that's not accurate; or at best, the falsity of it is in its half-truth. Yes, there have been pro-communist coups that have occurred, for example. But that's only the half of it. There have been many instances of conservative, sometimes even fascist, political violence - both attempts to or actual overthrowing of governments, or anti-communist governments engaging in brutally violent massacres of socialists and communists.

Examples: Spain, Italy and Germany in the 1930's, many Latin American countries post-WWII, Indonesia in the 1960's. And most of the terrorist violence against sitting Arab governments over the past 30 years has been by extremely conservative Islamists seeking to overthrow or overcome what they perceive as dangerous liberalism in their countries and/or the Islamic world.

[wmw999 2,447]

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Revolting against politics in a violent fashion has long been the turf of the ideological zealot liberal

Would that include the founding fathers and the Revolutionary War?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[warpedskydiver 0]

It was more than just political differences that led to the Revolutionary War.

If it were merely just political rhetoric it would have never happened.

Of course you already knew this.

[warpedskydiver 0]

True, but in this case we are trying to focus on the USA only

[birdshit 0]

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Would that include the founding fathers and the Revolutionary War?

Good point. I am sure we were called 'insurgents' by King George at some point.

To add a little to the thread:

If you look at the last 8 years of Bush&Cheney Inc., they:

1. Repealed the right to a trial by jury for any person detained by the federal government.

2. Repealed the right to a speedy trial (8 years in gitmo without even a phone call)

3. Withdrew from the Geneva Conventions (CIA Torture policy)

4. Worked very hard to repeal Row vs. Wade

5. Repealed the protection against unreasonable search and seizure (i.e. NSA Wiretaps of American citizens without a court order - in violation of the FISA Act)

6. Repealed the Posse Comitatus Act, which allowed him to use the military in law enforcement activities on American soil, expressly against the constitution.

And then we have tax cuts for the top 1% of the uber-rich, giveouts to big oil and corporations on the taxpayer dime, the outsourcing of American jobs to India and China, the 500 billion dollar trade deficit, 150 dollar a barrel oil, raping the social security trust fund, reduction of worker rights and busting up of unions, the deliberate lies told by the administration in the runup to the Iraq war...

Did I miss anything?

And that's just the stuff we know about...

So far the democrats have told the justice department that they are going to respect the rights of the states to set drug policy and not prosecute individuals that are in compliance with state law, a right that was not bestowed to individuals in the Bush administration.

So, we have the democrats adding rights, and Bush trashing the constitution/bill of rights every chance he got... So is it the democrats or the republicans that are trying to "stifle your rights?"

[Darius11 12]

I honestly think a lot of what you are saying is sensationalized. What rights have been violated?

We lost more of our freedoms in the last administration.

What am I missing here? What rights has Obama takin away from you?

I honestly do not understand the outrage? The country was in the worst shape ever in the past 70 years and he has not been in office for even a year yet. What has happened?

Are they gathering people in Alabama and sending them to camps?

Seriously what am I missing?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

I really doubt it.

There was a lot of bullshit back in 04 about GWB using the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as an excuse to cancel elections.

There is a lot of bullshit now about Obama and the liberals creating "camps" and all that crap.\

BOTH parties have made efforts to erode our civil liberties.

Although we have a lot of animosity between the Dems and Repubs, the ones making the most noise are really a small minority.

We don't have the deep, serious divdes along ethnic or tribal lines that have been present in the really bad events in recent history (Former Yugoslavia/Albania and Rwanda are the 2 that come to mind).

But it makes for good press and wonderful internet "debate" doesn't it?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,994]

It's definitely being discussed. From Newsmax (no surprise there):
==============================
John L. Perry's September 29 Newsmax column:

There is a remote, although gaining, possibility America's military will intervene as a last resort to resolve the "Obama problem." Don't dismiss it as unrealistic.

America isn't the Third World. If a military coup does occur here it will be civilized. That it has never happened doesn't mean it wont. Describing what may be afoot is not to advocate it.

. . .

Will the day come when patriotic general and flag officers sit down with the president, or with those who control him, and work out the national equivalent of a "family intervention," with some form of limited, shared responsibility?

Imagine a bloodless coup to restore and defend the Constitution through an interim administration that would do the serious business of governing and defending the nation. Skilled, military-trained, nation-builders would replace accountability-challenged, radical-left commissars. Having bonded with his twin teleprompters, the president would be detailed for ceremonial speech-making.

Military intervention is what Obama's exponentially accelerating agenda for "fundamental change" toward a Marxist state is inviting upon America. A coup is not an ideal option, but Obama's radical ideal is not acceptable or reversible.
=============================

[DanG 1]

That is fucking terrifying.

I have more to say, but I really don't know where to begin. And I'm as patriotic as they come.

- Dan G

[Skyrad 0]

Funny how everyone believes themselves to be a Patriot. If that article is even slightly close to the truth it goes to show just how lost the USA has become. If the actions in the article took place the US would become an international paria over night.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mnealtx 0]

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That is fucking terrifying.

I have more to say, but I really don't know where to begin. And I'm as patriotic as they come.

It has about as much credibility as the 'martial law' bullshit that Amazon kept trotting out in the Bush years.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[lawrocket 3]

Interestingly, I pulled out my vinyl and listened to the White Album again last weekend. One must consider that the Beatles may have actually been prophets. I think that Manson merely misinterpreted the prophecies.

Blackbird was about the future of race wars. Rather than riots it has become subtle.

Mother Nature's Son - about Obama's Kenyan Birth.

Glass Onion - about the clarity of satire in the media.

Piggies - the show stopper! H1N1 mixed with government control and the stock market crash! Listen to it. It's breathtaking.

Everybody's got Something to Hide Except Me and my Monkey - about "the Chimp" Dubya and the hunt for WMD's in Iraq.

Happiness is a Warm Gun - Heller

Revolution - let's just say a certain Obama Admin official "ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow.". "You say you've got a real solution well you know we'd all love to see the plan" is about quick passage of bills without prior release of the text.

Rocky Raccoon is about health care, alcohol and gun control.

Back in the USSR is about government growth.

Cry Baby Cry is about the Fox News row.

The political war is coming folks. It won't be Helter Skelter. Rather, it'll be ideological. The Beatles doth foretold it.

Perhaps if I took acid I would actually believe this post.

Spinal Tap's Black Album "Smell the Glove" would confirm this prophecy with the song "Hell Hole."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

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That is fucking terrifying.

I have more to say, but I really don't know where to begin. And I'm as patriotic as they come.

It has about as much credibility as the 'martial law' bullshit that Amazon kept trotting out in the Bush years.

absolutely nothing has changed - just the same arguments, same paranoid, same rumors, same gripes, same spending, same same same same. we aren't even a politically creative enough country to make up new and interesting strawmen - we just recycle the same stuff and trade teams



but at least the halftime show was pretty entertaining

and then the teams switched end zones and came back onto the field

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

I'm not worried that it would actually happen. I'm worrried that there are people out there who apparently think it would be a good thing if it did.

- Dan G

[Amazon 7]

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That is fucking terrifying.

I have more to say, but I really don't know where to begin. And I'm as patriotic as they come.

It has about as much credibility as the 'martial law' bullshit that Amazon kept trotting out in the Bush years.

And some people are too fucking stupid to believe that those options were not on the books and would have been used if they could have gotten away with it, should they have deemed it "neccessary" for the good of the nation. Remember the general slipping up and telling people what was possible. Your political blinders prevent you from even acknowledging that reality.

[mnealtx 0]

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Quote

Quote

That is fucking terrifying.

I have more to say, but I really don't know where to begin. And I'm as patriotic as they come.

It has about as much credibility as the 'martial law' bullshit that Amazon kept trotting out in the Bush years.

And some people are too fucking stupid to believe that those options were not on the books and would have been used if they could have gotten away with it, should they have deemed it "neccessary" for the good of the nation. Remember the general slipping up and telling people what was possible. Your political blinders prevent you from even acknowledging that reality.

And some people are too fucking stupid to realize that 9/11 itself was a perfect opportunity to do that, if it was going to be done.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kbordson 8]

Quote

It's definitely being discussed. From Newsmax (no surprise there):
==============================
John L. Perry's September 29 Newsmax column:

There is a remote, although gaining, possibility America's military will intervene as a last resort to resolve the "Obama problem." Don't dismiss it as unrealistic.

America isn't the Third World. If a military coup does occur here it will be civilized. That it has never happened doesn't mean it wont. Describing what may be afoot is not to advocate it.

. . .

Will the day come when patriotic general and flag officers sit down with the president, or with those who control him, and work out the national equivalent of a "family intervention," with some form of limited, shared responsibility?

Imagine a bloodless coup to restore and defend the Constitution
=============================

The only bloodless coup that I would support is through the free election of politicians that had the interests of the country as the primary motivator. But to have that, we would need the PEOPLE to become more aware, more educated, and less apathetic. They will need to be less able to be bribed or sold by slick commercials. THE PEOPLE need to understand what is being done AND WHY. The government has to become more transparent... infact, it SHOULD be completely transparent. The actions of America are done in the name of all American. I believe that there were many acts of the last administration weren't correct and brought dishonor to "Mr Smith" and "Mrs Johnson". Likewise, there are acts with THIS administration aren't correct. I understand the challenges with full disclosure ... it takes time to explain, to teach, to educate. It's MUCH easier to just pass something that no-one has read and make it the law of the land. But that doesn't make it an honorable House.

"Politics" is too powerful, is too big, is too arrogant. PEOPLE have to be willing to INSIST on less of that and on more of personal freedoms, personal responsibility and acceptance that others have the same.... but the way that we SHOULD do that is to vote. And to vote based on the capabilities and views of that candidate, not based on party line or sound bites. I hope there is a "bloodless coup"... in the form of an educated population that can, once again, become "We, the People" and can self rule within the Constitution of the United States of America.

[marks2065 0]

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And some people are too fucking stupid to believe that those options were not on the books and would have been used if they could have gotten away with it, should they have deemed it "neccessary" for the good of the nation. Remember the general slipping up and telling people what was possible. Your political blinders prevent you from even acknowledging that reality.

and the left's blinders are even better. we need to remove most of those in office and start new. Stop government spending and entitlemnet programs and get the government back to doing what the constitution gave them the athority to do. People need to be able to work, pay their bills and prosper. Anyone that doesn't work and pay bills should suffer the concequences. Illegals need to be sent home and let their government deal with their issues. after these things are done the US will start to be prosperous again, until then we will continue towards our own demise.

[birdshit 0]

Don't worry folks, nothing is going to happen.

America is so brainwashed, feminized and pacified that they would rather accept outright slavery to the federal government and forfeiture of all of their civil/constitutional rights than actually do something.

That's why we all sit around while things like Gitmo, CIA Secret prisons, NSA Wiretaps, lying politicians, crooked politicians, corporate control of america all go on and nobody does anything about it.

Nobody has done anything about it and now it is too late. The system is so mired in corruption that the only thing that would break the stranglehold that corporate america, the super rich, the military industrial complex, the prison industrial complex has on the country would be outright revolution and armed conflict between average citizens and the federal government/armed forces.

But that will never happen because America is filled with people that just don't care about what happens. People accept what the media tells them, and if CNN, FoxNews or whoever says everything is "OK" then they believe it without actually forming their own opinion or putting too much thought to it. We have become a country of weak minded chickenshits.

Sorry, wave the flag around all you want to, but the founding fathers wouldn't even recognize the country they founded if they saw it today.

[pirana 0]

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I really doubt it.

Although we have a lot of animosity between the Dems and Repubs, the ones making the most noise are really a small minority.

We don't have the deep, serious divdes along ethnic or tribal lines that have been present in the really bad events in recent history (Former Yugoslavia/Albania and Rwanda are the 2 that come to mind).

But it makes for good press and wonderful internet "debate" doesn't it?

Agreed. Our disagreements are nothing compared to the chaos that has caused recent revolutions.

Compared to them our issues look more like . . .

Tastes great, . . . less filling.

Makes for great press though, and I imagine a mockumentary on the topic should be hitting The History Channel any day now. Geez, has their programming gone downhill.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Interestingly, I pulled out my vinyl and listened to the White Album again last weekend. One must consider that the Beatles may have actually been prophets. I think that Manson merely misinterpreted the prophecies.

Blackbird was about the future of race wars. Rather than riots it has become subtle.

Mother Nature's Son - about Obama's Kenyan Birth.

Glass Onion - about the clarity of satire in the media.

Piggies - the show stopper! H1N1 mixed with government control and the stock market crash! Listen to it. It's breathtaking.

Everybody's got Something to Hide Except Me and my Monkey - about "the Chimp" Dubya and the hunt for WMD's in Iraq.

Happiness is a Warm Gun - Heller

Revolution - let's just say a certain Obama Admin official "ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow.". "You say you've got a real solution well you know we'd all love to see the plan" is about quick passage of bills without prior release of the text.

Rocky Raccoon is about health care, alcohol and gun control.

Back in the USSR is about government growth.

Cry Baby Cry is about the Fox News row.

The political war is coming folks. It won't be Helter Skelter. Rather, it'll be ideological. The Beatles doth foretold it.

Perhaps if I took acid I would actually believe this post.

Spinal Tap's Black Album "Smell the Glove" would confirm this prophecy with the song "Hell Hole."

Did you get made redundant or something? Waaaay to much time on your hands!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca