skyrider 0 #1 October 23, 2009 I don't knwo hwo most feel abotu Blackwater, Myself, I thionk they are the best group of American Patriots we have to fight this filthy war,,,being a private company, they are allowed to take the battle to the enemies level...I have lost a Very good friend, in Afganistan, whiel he was working with them, after all his years as a Navy SEAL, he didn;t retire, he kept fighting for what is right...with Blackwater.... ......................................................................................... Friday, October 23rd, 2009 A federal judge's ruling Wednesday won't shutter a war crimes suit against the security contracting firm formerly known as Blackwater, despite the fact that lawyers must refile their claims against the company. 64 Iraqis -- including the estates of 19 who died -- have sued the company, now called Xe, for indiscriminate beatings and killings. Judge TS Ellis III dismissed several of the suits on Wednesday, citing a new ruling by the Supreme Court which raises the bar for allegations of war crimes. "Ellis's ruling was not necessarily a response to faulty pleadings by the Iraqis' lawyers, but rather appears to be the result of a Supreme Court decision that came down after the Blackwater cases were originally filed," The Nation's Jeremy Scahill, who has covered the case closely, wrote Thursday. "In a 5-4 ruling in May 2009 in Ashcroft v. Iqbal, the court reversed decades of case law and imposed much more stringent standards for plaintiffs' to document facts before going to trial, According to Ellis's ruling, which cites Iqbal, the Iraqis must now file complaints that meet these new standards." "We were very pleased with the ruling," says Susan Burke, the Iraqis' lead attorney, was quoted as saying. A Blackwater Ellis rejected several of Blackwater's core arguments. Among them, Scahill writes, he took umbrage with the company's claim that "'conduct constitutes a war crime only if it is perpetrated in furtherance of a 'military objective' rather than for economic or ideological reasons.' Ellis said that under Blackwater's logic 'it is arguable that nobody who receives a paycheck would ever be liable for war crimes. Moreover, so narrow is the scope of [Blackwater's] standard that it would exclude murders of civilians committed by soldiers where there was no legitimate 'military objective' for committing the murders.'" Blackwater's image has been so tarnished that the company was forced to change their name. In August, two former Blackwater employees accused the company of pimping out Iraqi children.* The declarations described Blackwater as “having young girls provide oral sex to Enterprise members in the ‘Blackwater Man Camp’ in exchange for one American dollar.” They added even though Prince frequently visited this camp, he “failed to stop the ongoing use of prostitutes, including child prostitutes, by his men.” One of the statements also charged that “Prince’s North Carolina operations had an ongoing wife-swapping and sex ring, which was participated in by many of Mr. Prince’s top executives.” According to the two former employees, Blackwater supervisors in Iraq sometimes sent men back to the United States for wanting to “kill ragheads,” excessive drinking, steroid use, or failure to follow weapon safety procedures, but “Mr. Prince and his executives would send them back” with a reprimand to the supervisor for costing the firm money. Blackwater even fired “those mental health professionals who were not willing to endorse deployments of unfit men.” The former employees stated that Prince was engaged in illegal arms dealing, money laundering, and tax evasion, that he created “a web of companies in order to obscure wrong-doing, fraud, and other crimes,” and that Blackwater’s chief financial officer had “resigned … stating he was not willing to go to jail for Erik Prince.”spokesman said, ""We are confident that [the plaintiffs] will not be able to meet the high standard specified in Judge Ellis' opinion." * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgE7nZsFpDk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdshit 0 #2 October 23, 2009 Thats a tough call... Sorry for your friend. If the guys in question mowed down a bunch of unarmed civilians in a public square, then they deserve to be prosecuted. But as far as my memory serves, the feds had nothing to hold them on since Iraq is outside the jurisdiction of the justice department. Now they are being tried for war crimes? Thats a stretch in my opinion. Maybe they will make it stick, but I doubt it. More likely they will wait several years for the legal wrangling to be done and cut em loose. edit to add: the oral sex part and the wife swapping part is just a red herring (unsubstantiated) and has nothing to do with the actual incident in question, it is just an attempt to smear their rep. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #3 October 23, 2009 >the feds had nothing to hold them on since Iraq is outside the jurisdiction of the >justice department. That's fine. But if that's the case, then they should be tried in an Iraqi court. They committed the crimes within Iraq while they were subject to Iraq's laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdshit 0 #4 October 23, 2009 Quote That's fine. But if that's the case, then they should be tried in an Iraqi court. They committed the crimes within Iraq while they were subject to Iraq's laws. But did Iraq have laws at the time of the alleged attack? Did they have a working constitution at the time? Using the American standard (which is a slippery slope I know) then they cant be prosecuted for breaking laws that weren't in affect at the time of the incident... Don't taze me bro! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #5 October 23, 2009 "they are allowed to take the battle to the enemies level" what does that mean? act like a bunch or scumbags? kill whoever they feel like? can you please explain what exactly he was fighting for that is "right"? blackwater is a disgrace to america and anyone civilized. maybe you're just caught up in a world of hate because you lost a friend, but its pretty disturbing to paint them as "patriots". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #6 October 23, 2009 This is a tough one. They are fighting the US's battles, as civilian contractors. The problem (as I see it) is the lack of oversight/accountability. Apparently, the company brought guys accused of some pretty serious crimes back to the US to avoid Iraqi prosecution. One that comes to mind is the Blackwater contractor who, while drunk, shot an Iraqi soldier. One result of that was the changing of the rules on how contractors can be held accountable. But the shooter is still back here in the US, scott free. The stories that keep coming out about them are pretty bad (I don't know how true those stories are). They seem willing to open fire at anyone who they percieve as a threat, whether or not the threat is real. I realize that the threats they face are often unrecognizable until it is too late, but that doesn't excuse the killing of innocent civilians. That sort of behavior (if true) undermines all we are trying to accomplish over there. They should be held accountable for their actions, and if they have wrongly killed innocent civilians (yes, it can be difficult to tell sheep from goats in an insurgency) then they should face justice."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #7 October 23, 2009 At the very minimum they should be held to the same standards of conduct as US military personel. Hiring private contractors to handle security roles in order to free up toops for front line duty is fine, but hiring private contractors to circumvent established rules of engagement should never be allowed.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lost_n_confuzd 0 #8 October 24, 2009 I've known a few contractors to talk about some pretty 'illegal' stuff as if it were nothing. Military, contractors, or whoever commits an obvious murder of unarmed civilians in war should be charged. BW and many other PMCs have lowered their standards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #9 October 24, 2009 QuoteAt the very minimum they should be held to the same standards of conduct as US military personel. Hiring private contractors to handle security roles in order to free up toops for front line duty is fine, but hiring private contractors to circumvent established rules of engagement should never be allowed. DittoOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindfree2yall 0 #10 October 24, 2009 I DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR CASE BUT IF AL QUAEDA OR THE TALIBAN USE FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND RELIGION TO SEND A CHILD A WOMAN OR MENTALLY ILL PATIENCE AS A SUICIDE BOMBER ;;;; THE ENEMY INN THIS CASE IS THE IDEOLOGY THAT DOES THAT ''''''' TO A HUMAN BEING '''''' IF AL QUAEDA OR THE TALIBAN '''SEND A CHILD A WOMAN OR MENTALLY ILL PATIENCE AS A SUICIDE BOMBER ;; TO DISTURB THE PEACE;;;; IN SUPER MARKET '''INN IRAK JUST BECAUSE THE TROOPS ARE THERE KEEPING THEM FROM KILLING EACH OTHER BY KEEPING THE PEACE DO YOU THINK ALQUAEDA AND THE TALIBAN ARE CONCERN ABOUT WHAT THIS JUDGE OR ANY JUDGE THINKS ???? GET REAL '''' AFTER 9'11 AND ALL THAT ABUSE ON RELIGION AND FREEDOM '''''I CAN TELL YOU ''' TODAY WE ARE UNDER DIFFERENT GROUNDS THE JUDGES CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH AGAINST THAT IDEOLOGY '''''' I AGREE THEY ALL NEED TO WORK TOGETHER YES ]]]]] BUT UNDER DIFFERENT GROUNDS NOW LOOK I KNOW THINGS GET CONFUSING OUT THERE ]]]]]]]] FROM TIIME TO TIME BUT '''''''''' [[[[[[THE MILITARY NEEDS TO DO THEIR JOB ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] BY MILITARY LAW CUSSE THEY ARE THE MILITARY [[[[[[BLACK WATTER NEEDS TO DO THE JOB OTHERS CAN'T ]]] AND LIVE IT AT THAT[[[[[ ITS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF WAR NOW IS NASTY AND DIRTY ]]]]]]]]] [[[THATS WHY THEY ARE THERE ]]]]]]]]]]]] AND LOOK [[THE BLACK WATTER PERSONAL THAT GOT CAPTURE AND WAS HANGING BY ROPE BURNED A LIVE INN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY BY THESE EXTREMIST INN IRAK '''''' THEY HAD NO JUDGE INN THE MIDDLE EAST OR HERE DEFENDING THEM '''' OR THEIR FAMILIES '''''' BLACK WATTER THEY ARE JUST DOING THEIR JOB THEY ARE NOT THE ONES USING SUICIDE BOMBERS ''''' OR TELLING A CHILD [[[[[[[ HERE BLOW YOUR SELF UP AND TAKE THEM ALL OUT YOUR GONNA SLEEP WITH 20 VIRGINS INN HEAVEN ]]]]]]]] MAN GET REAL '''' [[BLACK WATTER IS THERE TO PROTECT]]]]]] [[[AND TO DO JOB OTHERS CAN'T ]] THEY ARE NOT THE ONES TELLING A CHILD TO DO THAT]]]]] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #11 October 24, 2009 Until you learn how to post properly, nobody will bother to read what you write; they'll just view it as eye pollution and ignore it. Just glancing at your post gave me a headache. At the very minimum, don't type in all-caps, use clear sentences, line breaks and paragraph breaks, remember there's a spell-checker feature, and don't expect people to take the time to read something that goes on and on and on and on. Oh - and lose the brackets: ]]]]]]]] . Very annoying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindfree2yall 0 #12 October 24, 2009 IM AT WORK MAKING MONEY [[I DON'T HAVE THE TIME 2 TRY 2 BE PERFECT 4 YOUR SATISFACTION ]]]]] I POST HOW I WANT ]]]]]]] IF IM 2 LOUD YOUR 2 OLD '''' & PLEASE ...GET YOUR POINT ACROSS QUICK ON THIS SHARK TANK BOBBY STAY ON POINT SON [[DON'T DIVERT ATTENTION FROM WHERE THE REAL PROBLEMS ARE ]]] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #13 October 24, 2009 You just made me a rich man, because I had bet myself 50 bucks you'd respond with exactly the kind of arrogant, childish post that you just did. Fine. Talk to the hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindfree2yall 0 #14 October 24, 2009 QuoteUntil you learn how to post properly, nobody will bother to read what you write; they'll just view it as eye pollution and ignore it. Just glancing at your post gave me a headache. At the very minimum, don't type in all-caps, use clear sentences, line breaks and paragraph breaks, remember there's a spell-checker feature, and don't expect people to take the time to read something that goes on and on and on and on. Oh - and lose the brackets: ]]]]]]]] . Very annoying. YOU COME ACROSS AND SOUND LIKE ROBBOT '''''' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #15 October 24, 2009 QuoteQuoteUntil you learn how to post properly, nobody will bother to read what you write; they'll just view it as eye pollution and ignore it. Just glancing at your post gave me a headache. At the very minimum, don't type in all-caps, use clear sentences, line breaks and paragraph breaks, remember there's a spell-checker feature, and don't expect people to take the time to read something that goes on and on and on and on. Oh - and lose the brackets: ]]]]]]]] . Very annoying. YOU COME ACROSS AND SOUND LIKE ROBBOT '''''' And you come across sounding like an idiot, whether you mean to or not. Sometimes, the medium IS the message. Lose the caps.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lost_n_confuzd 0 #16 October 24, 2009 >I POST HOW I WANT "whateva, I do what i whawnt!" Shanaynay, he's just giving you a few pointers so you don't make yourself out to be retarded... ...and he failed. Edit: Back on topic. PMCs should not be above the law and any illegal acts should to handled within the U.S. judicial system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindfree2yall 0 #17 October 24, 2009 4 DIVERTING ATTENTION FROM THIS SUBJECT AND 4 COMING ACROSS LIKE SPOIL CHILD WITH MORE MONEY THAN BRAINS 4 NOW ON SINCE YOU ALL ASK SINCE YOU LIKE IT SO MUCH IS ALL CAPS WITH TON OF SPEED ON SEEING WHATS REAL QUICK ''''HARD AND HEAVY '''WHILE IM AT WORK AND IF IM 2 LOUD YOUR 2 OLD TAKE YOUR SMALL TALK 2 PRESCHOOL LET THE PEOPLE THAT CAN SPEAK MORE THAN 3 LANGUAGES SAY WHAT NEED S TO BE SAID ''''' OR ALL EXPOSE THAT INSECT BRAIN WEAKNESS OF YOURS AND WILL SEE WHO S THE ONE WITH MORE INTEGRITY AND KNOWLEDGE ''' WILL [C] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #18 October 24, 2009 I'm sorry, were we supposed to be impressed? If so...you fail.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindfree2yall 0 #19 October 24, 2009 Quote>I POST HOW I WANT "whateva, I do what i whawnt!" Shanaynay, he's just giving you a few pointers so you don't make yourself out to be retarded... ...and he failed. Edit: Back on topic. PMCs should not be above the law and any illegal acts should to handled within the U.S. judicial system. SINSE IS YOU ]]]' 4 DIVERTING ATTENTION FROM THIS SUBJECT AND 4 COMING ACROSS LIKE SPOIL CHILD WITH MORE MONEY THAN BRAINS 4 NOW ON SINCE YOU ALL ASK SINCE YOU LIKE IT SO MUCH IS ALL CAPS WITH TON OF SPEED ON SEEING WHATS REAL QUICK ''''HARD AND HEAVY '''WHILE IM AT WORK AND IF IM 2 LOUD YOUR 2 OLD TAKE YOUR SMALL TALK 2 PRESCHOOL LET THE PEOPLE THAT CAN SPEAK MORE THAN 3 LANGUAGES SAY WHAT NEED S TO BE SAID ''''' OR ALL EXPOSE THAT INSECT BRAIN WEAKNESS OF YOURS AND WILL SEE WHO S THE ONE WITH MORE INTEGRITY AND KNOWLEDGE ''' WILL [C] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindfree2yall 0 #20 October 24, 2009 QuoteI'm sorry, were we supposed to be impressed? If so...you fail. GO WATCH CARTOONS ''''' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #21 October 24, 2009 QuoteAND WILL SEE WHO S THE ONE WITH MORE INTEGRITY AND KNOWLEDGE ''' No evidence yet...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #22 October 24, 2009 QuoteQuoteI'm sorry, were we supposed to be impressed? If so...you fail. GO WATCH CARTOONS ''''' Don't need them - you're much more entertaining.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #23 October 24, 2009 Quote 4 DIVERTING ATTENTION FROM THIS SUBJECT AND 4 COMING ACROSS LIKE SPOIL CHILD WITH MORE MONEY THAN BRAINS 4 NOW ON SINCE YOU ALL ASK SINCE YOU LIKE IT SO MUCH IS ALL CAPS WITH TON OF SPEED ON SEEING WHATS REAL QUICK ''''HARD AND HEAVY '''WHILE IM AT WORK AND IF IM 2 LOUD YOUR 2 OLD TAKE YOUR SMALL TALK 2 PRESCHOOL LET THE PEOPLE THAT CAN SPEAK MORE THAN 3 LANGUAGES SAY WHAT NEED S TO BE SAID ''''' OR ALL EXPOSE THAT INSECT BRAIN WEAKNESS OF YOURS AND WILL SEE WHO S THE ONE WITH MORE INTEGRITY AND KNOWLEDGE ''' WILL [C] English isn't one of them, I'm guessing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindfree2yall 0 #24 October 24, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm sorry, were we supposed to be impressed? If so...you fail. GO WATCH CARTOONS ''''' Don't need them - you're much more entertaining. YOU SOUND LIKE MY GROUPIES Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #25 October 24, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI'm sorry, were we supposed to be impressed? If so...you fail. GO WATCH CARTOONS ''''' Don't need them - you're much more entertaining. YOU SOUND LIKE MY GROUPIES You sound like my granddaughter. That ties in well, since you mentioned kindergarten earlier and she just started kindergarten a few weeks ago. See - you're fitting in already!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
