Fact Check; Demonizing of the Heath Insurance Industry

[rushmc 23]

Food for thought?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091025/D9BI4D6O1.html

Quote

FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat


Oct 25, 8:37 AM (ET)

By CALVIN WOODWARD


WASHINGTON (AP) - Quick quiz: What do these enterprises have in common? Farm and construction machinery, Tupperware, the railroads, Hershey sweets, Yum food brands and Yahoo? Answer: They're all more profitable than the health insurance industry. In the health care debate, Democrats and their allies have gone after insurance companies as rapacious profiteers making "immoral" and "obscene" returns while "the bodies pile up."

Ledgers tell a different reality. Health insurance profit margins typically run about 6 percent, give or take a point or two. That's anemic compared with other forms of insurance and a broad array of industries, even some beleaguered ones.

Profits barely exceeded 2 percent of revenues in the latest annual measure. This partly explains why the credit ratings of some of the largest insurers were downgraded to negative from stable heading into this year, as investors were warned of a stagnant if not shrinking market for private plans.

Insurers are an expedient target for leaders who want a government-run plan in the marketplace. Such a public option would force private insurers to trim profits and restrain premiums to compete, the argument goes. This would "keep insurance companies honest," says President Barack Obama.

The debate is loaded with intimations that insurers are less than straight, when they are not flatly accused of malfeasance.

They may not have helped their case by commissioning a report that looked primarily at the elements of health care legislation that might drive consumer costs up while ignoring elements aimed at bringing costs down. Few in the debate seem interested in a true balance sheet.

But in pillorying insurers over profits, the critics are on shaky ground. A look at some claims, and the numbers:

THE CLAIMS

_"I'm very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., who also welcomed the attention being drawn to insurers'"obscene profits."

_"Keeping the status quo may be what the insurance industry wants their premiums have more than doubled in the last decade and their profits have skyrocketed." Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, member of the Democratic leadership.

_"Health insurance companies are willing to let the bodies pile up as long as their profits are safe." A MoveOn.org ad.

THE NUMBERS:

Health insurers posted a 2.2 percent profit margin last year, placing them 35th on the Fortune 500 list of top industries. As is typical, other health sectors did much better - drugs and medical products and services were both in the top 10.

The railroads brought in a 12.6 percent profit margin. Leading the list: network and other communications equipment, at 20.4 percent.

HealthSpring, the best performer in the health insurance industry, posted 5.4 percent. That's a less profitable margin than was achieved by the makers of Tupperware, Clorox bleach and Molson and Coors beers.

The star among the health insurance companies did, however, nose out Jack in the Box restaurants, which only achieved a 4 percent margin.

UnitedHealth Group, reporting third quarter results last week, saw fortunes improve. It managed a 5 percent profit margin on an 8 percent growth in revenue.

Van Hollen is right that premiums have more than doubled in a decade, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation study that found a 131 percent increase.

But were the Bush years golden ones for health insurers?

Not judging by profit margins, profit growth or returns to shareholders. The industry's overall profits grew only 8.8 percent from 2003 to 2008, and its margins year to year, from 2005 forward, never cracked 8 percent.

The latest annual profit margins of a selection of products, services and industries: Tupperware Brands, 7.5 percent; Yahoo, 5.9 percent; Hershey, 6.1 percent; Clorox, 8.7 percent; Molson Coors Brewing, 8.1 percent; construction and farm machinery, 5 percent; Yum Brands (think KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell), 8.5 percent.

---

Associated Press writer Tom Murphy in Indianapolis contributed to this report.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[marks2065 0]

those damned health insurance companies are bankrupting the country. [/;)] the government is bankrupting the country and the left keeps looking the other way. blaming everyone but themselves. the last election saw the dem party grow and the conservatives got beat up. I hope the elections in the next year send a message to the dem's that we are fed up.

[pirana 0]

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THE CLAIMS

_"I'm very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., who also welcomed the attention being drawn to insurers'"obscene profits."

_"Keeping the status quo may be what the insurance industry wants their premiums have more than doubled in the last decade and their profits have skyrocketed." Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, member of the Democratic leadership.

As one of the 600 to 700 laid off during the past year at the MN Blue plan, I can assure everyone not all carriers are experiencing skyrocketing profits. Membership is falling steadily as employers reduce or outright eliminate benefit plans and cut payroll. Funding for modernization, projects, enhancements, etc has dried up and it is pretty much just keep things running.

Employers try to maintain benefit plans but eventually have to acknowledge financial reality. For that reason there is typically a lag; carriers get hit well after the companies they serve start taking their lumps. Same on the recovery end; they will not begin to recover until the companies they serve make a significant comeback, employment turns around, and enrollment levels rebound.

It has nothing to do with carriers, employers, or health care professionals being evil - they are just caught up in the tight money situation like everyone else.

I find it hard to believe Obama and Pelosi are that stupid; more likely that as politicians they feel the need to say certain things to keep their huddled constituents believing.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Amazon 7]

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Quote

THE CLAIMS

_"I'm very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., who also welcomed the attention being drawn to insurers'"obscene profits."

_"Keeping the status quo may be what the insurance industry wants their premiums have more than doubled in the last decade and their profits have skyrocketed." Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, member of the Democratic leadership.

As one of the 600 to 700 laid off during the past year at the MN Blue plan, I can assure everyone not all carriers are experiencing skyrocketing profits. Membership is falling steadily as employers reduce or outright eliminate benefit plans and cut payroll. Funding for modernization, projects, enhancements, etc has dried up and it is pretty much just keep things running.

Employers try to maintain benefit plans but eventually have to acknowledge financial reality. For that reason there is typically a lag; carriers get hit well after the companies they serve start taking their lumps. Same on the recovery end; they will not begin to recover until the companies they serve make a significant comeback, employment turns around, and enrollment levels rebound.

It has nothing to do with carriers, employers, or health care professionals being evil - they are just caught up in the tight money situation like everyone else.

I find it hard to believe Obama and Pelosi are that stupid; more likely that as politicians they feel the need to say certain things to keep their huddled constituents believing.

The executives have taken the money and run.... do you really think you working slobs deserve anything? Why do you think your company has to pay for YOU.. that is not the capitalist way.. pony up your own money for health care.

[rushmc 23]

it is not about being stupid. It is about creating a demon to swing public opinion so they can try and get this kind of crap passed. There will be anther demon after this one.

And I talk about government, not any party. They all do it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[pirana 0]

Quote

The executives have taken the money and run.... do you really think you working slobs deserve anything? Why do you think your company has to pay for YOU.. that is not the capitalist way.. pony up your own money for health care.

Actually, the executives are getting chopped as well, and were the first group to take the hits. Upper and middle management have taken the biggest hits so far. Also, they did not get to run away with any more money (proportionate to their salary) than anyone else.

I'd say I (and everyone else) deserve fair wages for the effort given; and believe I was compensated so over the years.

Don't understand this comment: "Why do you think your company has to pay for YOU.. that is not the capitalist way . . ." They paid for me because they needed the effort and I provided it. Pretty simple really. What did you mean by that?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Amazon 7]

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Quote

The executives have taken the money and run.... do you really think you working slobs deserve anything? Why do you think your company has to pay for YOU.. that is not the capitalist way.. pony up your own money for health care.

Actually, the executives are getting chopped as well, and were the first group to take the hits. Upper and middle management have taken the biggest hits so far. Also, they did not get to run away with any more money (proportionate to their salary) than anyone else.

I'd say I (and everyone else) deserve fair wages for the effort given; and believe I was compensated so over the years.

Don't understand this comment: "Why do you think your company has to pay for YOU.. that is not the capitalist way . . ." They paid for me because they needed the effort and I provided it. Pretty simple really. What did you mean by that?

All of the teabaggin Party of NO... seem to feel that their companies OWE them healthcare... its a corporate handout to them... yet they bemoan the public option that would provide for others...vehemently.

Just more I have got mine and fuck everyone else that we have come to know and love from them..

[rushmc 23]

Funny how so many here who jumped on the "evil insurance" companies band wagon are deafeningly silent as they are proven wrong (at least to the profit point) yet again

Quote

Food for thought?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091025/D9BI4D6O1.html

Quote

FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat


Oct 25, 8:37 AM (ET)

By CALVIN WOODWARD


WASHINGTON (AP) - Quick quiz: What do these enterprises have in common? Farm and construction machinery, Tupperware, the railroads, Hershey sweets, Yum food brands and Yahoo? Answer: They're all more profitable than the health insurance industry. In the health care debate, Democrats and their allies have gone after insurance companies as rapacious profiteers making "immoral" and "obscene" returns while "the bodies pile up."

Ledgers tell a different reality. Health insurance profit margins typically run about 6 percent, give or take a point or two. That's anemic compared with other forms of insurance and a broad array of industries, even some beleaguered ones.

Profits barely exceeded 2 percent of revenues in the latest annual measure. This partly explains why the credit ratings of some of the largest insurers were downgraded to negative from stable heading into this year, as investors were warned of a stagnant if not shrinking market for private plans.

Insurers are an expedient target for leaders who want a government-run plan in the marketplace. Such a public option would force private insurers to trim profits and restrain premiums to compete, the argument goes. This would "keep insurance companies honest," says President Barack Obama.

The debate is loaded with intimations that insurers are less than straight, when they are not flatly accused of malfeasance.

They may not have helped their case by commissioning a report that looked primarily at the elements of health care legislation that might drive consumer costs up while ignoring elements aimed at bringing costs down. Few in the debate seem interested in a true balance sheet.

But in pillorying insurers over profits, the critics are on shaky ground. A look at some claims, and the numbers:

THE CLAIMS

_"I'm very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., who also welcomed the attention being drawn to insurers'"obscene profits."

_"Keeping the status quo may be what the insurance industry wants their premiums have more than doubled in the last decade and their profits have skyrocketed." Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, member of the Democratic leadership.

_"Health insurance companies are willing to let the bodies pile up as long as their profits are safe." A MoveOn.org ad.

THE NUMBERS:

Health insurers posted a 2.2 percent profit margin last year, placing them 35th on the Fortune 500 list of top industries. As is typical, other health sectors did much better - drugs and medical products and services were both in the top 10.

The railroads brought in a 12.6 percent profit margin. Leading the list: network and other communications equipment, at 20.4 percent.

HealthSpring, the best performer in the health insurance industry, posted 5.4 percent. That's a less profitable margin than was achieved by the makers of Tupperware, Clorox bleach and Molson and Coors beers.

The star among the health insurance companies did, however, nose out Jack in the Box restaurants, which only achieved a 4 percent margin.

UnitedHealth Group, reporting third quarter results last week, saw fortunes improve. It managed a 5 percent profit margin on an 8 percent growth in revenue.

Van Hollen is right that premiums have more than doubled in a decade, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation study that found a 131 percent increase.

But were the Bush years golden ones for health insurers?

Not judging by profit margins, profit growth or returns to shareholders. The industry's overall profits grew only 8.8 percent from 2003 to 2008, and its margins year to year, from 2005 forward, never cracked 8 percent.

The latest annual profit margins of a selection of products, services and industries: Tupperware Brands, 7.5 percent; Yahoo, 5.9 percent; Hershey, 6.1 percent; Clorox, 8.7 percent; Molson Coors Brewing, 8.1 percent; construction and farm machinery, 5 percent; Yum Brands (think KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell), 8.5 percent.

---

Associated Press writer Tom Murphy in Indianapolis contributed to this report.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Food for thought?

No reason to argue with myway.com.
Anything YOU wanna say?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Food for thought?

No reason to argue with myway.com.
Anything YOU wanna say?

Yet another "silent" reply......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Yet another "silent" reply......

No surprise, yeah? You're avoiding answering difficult questions like plague.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Food for thought?

No reason to argue with myway.com.
Anything YOU wanna say?

I find it interesting, when many here have jumped up and down and posted to the evil "high" profits of the HC insurance companies, (because they propagated the party line talking points to push an agenda) and then, find out they have pushed the lie, fall so very silent..

How about you? And real thoughts on the topic?

I doubt it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Yet another "silent" reply......

No surprise, yeah? You're avoiding answering difficult questions like plague.

So, as smart ass comment is a question in your world?

Ok, I will have to remember that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[1969912 0]

Yep, lots of silence.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[georgerussia 0]

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I find it interesting, when many here have jumped up and down and posted to the evil "high" profits of the HC insurance companies, (because they propagated the party line talking points to push an agenda) and then, find out they have pushed the lie, fall so very silent..

At least they had their opinion, and were not afraid to speak it.

And you? You just copypasted a statement with unknown authenticity with added one-liner of you ,which is not even a statement.

Quote

How about you? And real thoughts on the topic?

I said mine already - I do not like a "business model" when the companies are allowed cherry-picking the customers, and dump everyone else on taxpayers. You have anything to say?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[freeflybella 0]

And the more competition in a market, the LESS ability insurance companies have to negotiate lower rates. If an insurance company has a market cornered, health systems MUST work with them to keep costs down. When there is a glut, health systems can hold out for higher prices.

This is why single payer is really the only way to go. Prices are set.

You don't get an apendectomy billed at $1300 with one insurer and $13,000 with another. When the prices are set across all insurers/health systems/states - insurance companies are forced to compete on SERVICES to the consumer.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[rushmc 23]

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I find it interesting, when many here have jumped up and down and posted to the evil "high" profits of the HC insurance companies, (because they propagated the party line talking points to push an agenda) and then, find out they have pushed the lie, fall so very silent..

At least they had their opinion, and were not afraid to speak it.

And you? You just copypasted a statement with unknown authenticity with added one-liner of you ,which is not even a statement.

Quote

How about you? And real thoughts on the topic?

I said mine already - I do not like a "business model" when the companies are allowed cherry-picking the customers, and dump everyone else on taxpayers. You have anything to say?

This thread is not about the business model. It is about a LIE those like you used to push an agenda and demonize a legitimate business doing it.

So you don't like the model, boo fucking hoo. Gives you a right to spread lies?

I guess the end justifies the means for the t leggers

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Food for thought?

No reason to argue with myway.com.
Anything YOU wanna say?

I find it interesting, when many here have jumped up and down and posted to the evil "high" profits of the HC insurance companies,

Provide many links to these many. Your claim, if true, should be easy to prove.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[georgerussia 0]

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This thread is not about the business model. It is about a LIE those like you used to push an agenda and demonize a legitimate business doing it.

Prove that this is a lie. So far you didn't cite any credible source.

Quote

So you don't like the model, boo fucking hoo. Gives you a right to spread lies?

It is indeed a Republican model, so even if I wanted to do it, I wonder why would you consider this issue.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

This thread is not about the business model. It is about a LIE those like you used to push an agenda and demonize a legitimate business doing it.

Prove that this is a lie. So far you didn't cite any credible source.

Quote

So you don't like the model, boo fucking hoo. Gives you a right to spread lies?

It is indeed a Republican model, so even if I wanted to do it, I wonder why would you consider this issue.

Pelosi's quote is above. It is flat out a lie
The profit margins listed above show this



A Republican model?

Wow, that explains a lot. Thanks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnDeere 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Food for thought?

No reason to argue with myway.com.
Anything YOU wanna say?

I find it interesting, when many here have jumped up and down and posted to the evil "high" profits of the HC insurance companies,

Provide many links to these many. Your claim, if true, should be easy to prove.

Is there a reason you wont debate the links he has posted? Cause it goes against your lies? Hmmm...

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Food for thought?

Facts have nothing to do with it.

What we get in terms of health reform will be where public opinion (which needn't be fact based) and insurance/medical lobby dollars (which needn't be fact based) collide.

[tkhayes 348]

their profits are only PART of the issue - not the whole issue. huge CEO salaries, inefficiencies compared to Medicare (their overhead is massive by comparison), and the bottom line, their pricing and contractual structure that constantly find new ways to DENY coverage for anyone except healthy people.

These are some but not all of the reasons that Americans are fed up with private healthcare available to only 'part' of society.

here we go again, another 300+post thread to say the same shit that has been said a hundred times before.......

Medicare for all, end of discussion

[rushmc 23]

Quote

their profits are only PART of the issue - not the whole issue. huge CEO salaries, inefficiencies compared to Medicare (their overhead is massive by comparison), and the bottom line, their pricing and contractual structure that constantly find new ways to DENY coverage for anyone except healthy people.

These are some but not all of the reasons that Americans are fed up with private healthcare available to only 'part' of society.

here we go again, another 300+post thread to say the same shit that has been said a hundred times before.......

Medicare for all, end of discussion

Bull shit

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Food for thought?

No reason to argue with myway.com.
Anything YOU wanna say?

I find it interesting, when many here have jumped up and down and posted to the evil "high" profits of the HC insurance companies,

Provide many links to these many. Your claim, if true, should be easy to prove.

Is there a reason you wont debate the links he has posted? Cause it goes against your lies? Hmmm...

I have not made ANY claims about the profits of insurance companies. Get your facts straight before calling someone a liar.

Seems that Rush can't find any links to support his "many here" claim either.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.