perryd 0 #1 October 27, 2009 France convicts "church" of fraud. Maybe they'll get the Catholics for sex crimes next. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #2 October 27, 2009 I agree they are full of shit, but so are the Christians so what is the difference? Perhaps they should change their name to The Church of Latter day Huguenots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #3 October 27, 2009 QuoteI agree they are full of shit, but so are the Christians so what is the difference? Perhaps they should change their name to The Church of Latter day Huguenots. I've never heard of Christians for attacking someone for distributing copies of their holy documents, (the Bible). In fact, to the contrary, Christians seem to appreciate that."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #4 October 27, 2009 QuoteFrance convicts "church" of fraud. News reference: http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-10-27-voa21.cfm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 October 27, 2009 QuoteFrance convicts "church" of fraud. Once again the French show a certain courage we in the US don't seem to have.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #6 October 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteFrance convicts "church" of fraud. Once again the French show a certain courage we in the US don't seem to have. How so? The leadership for Scientology are scumbags at best, but if people voluntarily give money to these alien worshiping assholes, how is that fraud? I have much great objections to the way they go after those who leak information than their overall practice of soliciting money from suckers. I don't view them as dramatically different than other religions in that aspect. The attacks on Scientology by European countries troubles me a bit on 1st amendment concerns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #7 October 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteFrance convicts "church" of fraud. Once again the French show a certain courage we in the US don't seem to have. How so? The leadership for Scientology are scumbags at best, but if people voluntarily give money to these alien worshiping assholes, how is that fraud? I have much great objections to the way they go after those who leak information than their overall practice of soliciting money from suckers. I don't view them as dramatically different than other religions in that aspect. The attacks on Scientology by European countries troubles me a bit on 1st amendment concerns. Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #8 October 27, 2009 QuoteThe attacks on Scientology by European countries troubles me a bit on 1st amendment concerns. What exactly has the 1st amendment got to do with France? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #9 October 27, 2009 QuoteWhat exactly has the 1st amendment got to do with France? Freedom of speech is a good principle for any nation to honor, regardless of how it's enshrined in their law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 October 27, 2009 QuoteThe attacks on Scientology by European countries troubles me a bit on 1st amendment concerns. L. Ron Hubbard's own words indicate that Scientology was set up as a fake religion (cult) to make money. If a person doesn't believe it to be a religion, which clearly the French do not, then there is no 1st Amendment issue in persecuting them. I agree with the French completely on this issue and I think it's a shame this racket wasn't busted up years ago.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #11 October 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe attacks on Scientology by European countries troubles me a bit on 1st amendment concerns. L. Ron Hubbard's own words indicate that Scientology was set up as a fake religion (cult) to make money. If a person doesn't believe it to be a religion, which clearly the French do not, then there is no 1st Amendment issue in persecuting them. I agree with the French completely on this issue and I think it's a shame this racket wasn't busted up years ago. I feel the same way about the christians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #12 October 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe attacks on Scientology by European countries troubles me a bit on 1st amendment concerns. L. Ron Hubbard's own words indicate that Scientology was set up as a fake religion (cult) to make money. If a person doesn't believe it to be a religion, which clearly the French do not, then there is no 1st Amendment issue in persecuting them. I agree with the French completely on this issue and I think it's a shame this racket wasn't busted up years ago. I feel the same way about the christians. Especially those rolling in 1,000 years of institutionalized wealth-building who respond to charges of child rape by filing for "bankruptcy." Yeah, we know, can't get blood from a stone, and all that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 333 #13 October 27, 2009 Is it just me, or does "Theten" sound like someone with a bad lisp saying "Satan?" "I'm a Thatan worthuper." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #14 October 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe attacks on Scientology by European countries troubles me a bit on 1st amendment concerns. L. Ron Hubbard's own words indicate that Scientology was set up as a fake religion (cult) to make money. If a person doesn't believe it to be a religion, which clearly the French do not, then there is no 1st Amendment issue in persecuting them. I agree with the French completely on this issue and I think it's a shame this racket wasn't busted up years ago. I feel the same way about the christians. One step at a time. Let's get rid of the more obvious charlatans first.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #15 October 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe attacks on Scientology by European countries troubles me a bit on 1st amendment concerns. L. Ron Hubbard's own words indicate that Scientology was set up as a fake religion (cult) to make money. If a person doesn't believe it to be a religion, which clearly the French do not, then there is no 1st Amendment issue in persecuting them. I agree with the French completely on this issue and I think it's a shame this racket wasn't busted up years ago. I feel the same way about the christians. One step at a time. Let's get rid of the more obvious charlatans first. Good idea. I know, let's feed them to lions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #16 October 27, 2009 Kind of like the cops saying, "Well, we'll get Don Cicci later. Right now we want to focus on Johnny the punk and Joey smalltime." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #17 October 27, 2009 QuoteKind of like the cops saying, "Well, we'll get Don Cicci later. Right now we want to focus on Johnny the punk and Joey smalltime." A bit, but the issue is that a vast majority of the world defines certain religions as "valid" and the others as "cults". Ya have to start somewhere and the "cults" will garner the most support. Getting rid of religions altogether might not even be an attainable goal. However, getting rid of the most egregious violators of trust; cults, televangelists, out and out shams, might be.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #18 October 28, 2009 QuoteOne step at a time. Let's get rid of the more obvious charlatans first. Can't...the Goreacle® has too much money to sue.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #19 October 28, 2009 Your Freedom of Speech and my Freedom of Speech are two different things, and not even of the same coin!!! In much of Europe, Limbaugh, Gleen Beck, or, for that matter, Fox News, would not fall under Freedom of Speech but Hate Crime. I am glad the EU does not honor YOUR interpretation of Freedom of Speech. QuoteQuoteWhat exactly has the 1st amendment got to do with France? Freedom of speech is a good principle for any nation to honor, regardless of how it's enshrined in their law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #20 October 28, 2009 QuoteYour Freedom of Speech and my Freedom of Speech are two different things, and not even of the same coin!!! In much of Europe, Limbaugh, Gleen Beck, or, for that matter, Fox News, would not fall under Freedom of Speech but Hate Crime. I am glad the EU does not honor YOUR interpretation of Freedom of Speech. Given your ideas of 'free speech', I think we've got the better end of the deal.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #21 October 28, 2009 QuoteQuoteKind of like the cops saying, "Well, we'll get Don Cicci later. Right now we want to focus on Johnny the punk and Joey smalltime." A bit, but the issue is that a vast majority of the world defines certain religions as "valid" and the others as "cults". Ya have to start somewhere and the "cults" will garner the most support. See, when you phrase it that way, I get very worried, since basically it says let's get rid of the smaller minorities first. 'That's a good start.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 October 28, 2009 QuoteYour Freedom of Speech and my Freedom of Speech are two different things, and not even of the same coin!!! In much of Europe, Limbaugh, Gleen Beck, or, for that matter, Fox News, would not fall under Freedom of Speech but Hate Crime. Yes, we even allow Nazis to march. Unpopular speech is still permitted under freedom of speech. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #23 October 28, 2009 QuoteSee, when you phrase it that way, I get very worried, since basically it says let's get rid of the smaller minorities first. 'That's a good start.' Except the Scientology organization shouldn't be a protected minority. It's more like the Mafia than a religion.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #24 October 28, 2009 QuoteQuoteYour Freedom of Speech and my Freedom of Speech are two different things, and not even of the same coin!!! In much of Europe, Limbaugh, Gleen Beck, or, for that matter, Fox News, would not fall under Freedom of Speech but Hate Crime. Yes, we even allow Nazis to march. Unpopular speech is still permitted under freedom of speech. Absolutely. As I've posted before, as an American, I'm quite proud of the fact that forms of expression considered to be crimes in much of Western Europe, the UK and even Canada have a different label in the US: "Constitutionally protected speech." The ability of any "democratic" country to silence political commentators under the excuse of "hate crime" is nothing to be proud of, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #25 October 28, 2009 QuoteQuoteSee, when you phrase it that way, I get very worried, since basically it says let's get rid of the smaller minorities first. 'That's a good start.' Except the Scientology organization shouldn't be a protected minority. It's more like the Mafia than a religion. One could easily make the same argument about the Catholic Church, the Lutheran Synod, etc. Re: Scientology itself, it would be interesting to see an analysis of whether the Church of Scientology should be considered to be principally a criminal enterprise worthy of RICO prosecution - a criticism leveled at "Rev." Sun Myung Moon's church back in the 80's. Apparently you seem to think it should. With regard to "cults" generally, I agree with Kelp's concern: it's hypocritical to de-legitimize newer, smaller religions as "cults", while accepting other more mainstream religions as "legitimate", simply because the latter have the strength of numbers or longevity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
