Do poor people do things to keep themselves poor.

[XitXitXit 0]

I was Just curious what people thought about the old adage about "Poor people do things to keep themselves poor"

There are no pessimist in skydiving.

[billvon 2,994]

>"Poor people do things to keep themselves poor"

Poor people don't do things that make them rich, but that's not the same thing.

[FreeflyChile 0]

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I was Just curious what people thought about the old adage about "Poor people do things to keep themselves poor"

I suppose being born in a favela in Rio is something you do, but I don't know how much choice you have in the matter....

[XitXitXit 0]

Ok I should have been more specific. Let's keep it to this country for right now, and maybe expand it to the whole world later on...

There are no pessimist in skydiving.

[normiss 801]

Society limits their ability to a large degree.
IMO.

[XitXitXit 0]

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Society limits their ability to a large degree.
IMO.

in what ways?

There are no pessimist in skydiving.

[Lucky... 0]

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>"Poor people do things to keep themselves poor"

Poor people don't do things that make them rich, but that's not the same thing.

I voted YES, but I like this option better.

[beowulf 1]

I disagree.

Some people have fewer obstacles to over come then others. Anyone can pull themselves out of poverty if they have the drive to do so along with the ability to see opportunities and take advantage of them. Many do not have that ability or the intelligence to see the opportunities and act on them.

Society doesn't limit them, they limit themselves.

[nigel99 476]

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Society limits their ability to a large degree.
IMO.

I think that is a cop out and a way of people shrugging off responsibility. Of course it is easier to "stay" rich in life, if your parents send you to a good university, set you up in life by helping with your first house, car etc, than if you start from scratch.

There are plenty of examples where people have started life from a poor background and risen to the top of industry - and I mean dirt poor not simply middle class.

I am not sure about the US, but in many parts of the world take a close look at and speak to migrants from poor countries - as a general rule they tend to rise (quite quickly) to above national average income and prosperity levels. I rented a house from a guy who was kicked out of Uganda by Idi Amin in the mid-70's with nothing but the clothes on his back, by the late nineties he owned more than 10 houses with a typical value of £150-£200k each, less than 1/2 of the houses were mortgaged.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[kallend 2,027]

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I disagree.

Some people have fewer obstacles to over come then others. Anyone can pull themselves out of poverty if they have the drive to do so along with the ability to see opportunities and take advantage of them. Many do not have that ability or the intelligence to see the opportunities and act on them.

Society doesn't limit them, they limit themselves.

Assuming for a moment some kind of bell curve of drive and talent that is the same for every income/wealth/racial/ethnic/religious group, it would follow that a smaller % of a group with greater obstacles to overcome would succeed than from a group with few obstacles to overcome. It takes much more drive to get into Yale from out of the ghetto than to get into Yale as a legacy admit.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Darius11 12]

Life is every much like a lottery. Where you are born and whom you are born to make a major difference.

I find that people who are successful seem to always talk about working hard and they feel special they feel as if it is all them and that’s why they are a success. Now this can be true, however often times the only difference between them and the people they have no sympathy for is who they are born to and where.


Life is not an exact science. There are people who will succeed no matter what environment they are in and ones that will fail even if born to great parents with great t means.

I think you have to look at it in a case by case bases.

Also in the US the American dream is dead. You can no longer just work hard and have a house and a life. Most middle class people I know survive they do not live.


But i think the majority of people are poor because they were born poor.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[XitXitXit 0]

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I disagree.

Some people have fewer obstacles to over come then others. Anyone can pull themselves out of poverty if they have the drive to do so along with the ability to see opportunities and take advantage of them. Many do not have that ability or the intelligence to see the opportunities and act on them.

Society doesn't limit them, they limit themselves.

Assuming for a moment some kind of bell curve of drive and talent that is the same for every income/wealth/racial/ethnic/religious group, it would follow that a smaller % of a group with greater obstacles to overcome would succeed than from a group with few obstacles to overcome. It takes much more drive to get into Yale from out of the ghetto than to get into Yale as a legacy admit.

But it is possible yes?

There are no pessimist in skydiving.

[shropshire 0]

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Ok I should have been more specific. Let's keep it to this country for right now, and maybe expand it to the whole world later on...

Aye? Which country do you mean (as if I din't know) - THIS isn't a country, it's an international web site.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 2,027]

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I disagree.

Some people have fewer obstacles to over come then others. Anyone can pull themselves out of poverty if they have the drive to do so along with the ability to see opportunities and take advantage of them. Many do not have that ability or the intelligence to see the opportunities and act on them.

Society doesn't limit them, they limit themselves.

Assuming for a moment some kind of bell curve of drive and talent that is the same for every income/wealth/racial/ethnic/religious group, it would follow that a smaller % of a group with greater obstacles to overcome would succeed than from a group with few obstacles to overcome. It takes much more drive to get into Yale from out of the ghetto than to get into Yale as a legacy admit.

But it is possible yes?

I'm sure some poor people do self destructive things, as do some very rich people. The very rich then end up just modestly rich while the poor end up in the gutter.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[XitXitXit 0]

United States

Sorry for the confusion I don't usually post in here.. or anywhere for that matter...

There are no pessimist in skydiving.

[XitXitXit 0]

Define some? more than 50%? Less than 50%

There are no pessimist in skydiving.

[beowulf 1]

Right but you drawing the poverty line awfully high don't you think??

I never went to Yale or Harvard. I don't consider myself to be poor.

[futuredivot 0]

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Aye? Which country do you mean

The big one south of Canada-you know, that place that China bought.

On subject-Blanket statements are tough for me to agree with. There have been way too many success stories for it to be always true and way too many individual choices made that result in a lower than possible net worth for it to be always false.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[kallend 2,027]

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Define some? more than 50%? Less than 50%

What for?

In my job I see people from all income groups. I discern no clear difference in self destructive behavior based on class. It's just that getting to skid row takes more time and effort if you start out wealthy.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

Oh the new 3rd world?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[lawrocket 3]

Often times, yes they do. The reproductive rate for the young and poor is very high, and there is little that can be done that holds back the development of individual wealth than having children.

Many also put aside education. The high school dropout rate in poorer communities is very high compared to upper and middle class. This has a daisy chain effect on downstream opportunities.

This is especially truw considering the post-industrial economy and mechanization. A low-skilled poor person could get manufacturing jobs. My dad, a high school dropout, could work as a machinist and develop a trade into a well-paying career. Modern CINC systems make his skill set much less valuable, and technical education is necessary. This is nearly impossible with a low skill set.

There are yet other things. A felony conviction is a gift that keeps on giving.

Finally, frankly, I believe that the poor are exposed to too many people telling them that they simply cannot get ahead. It is cultural now. These poor kids often don't stand a chance because of the lack of people getting them to push their limits.

It then becomes almost no choice because the options for escape are met with disdain.

It's sad because there are so many who have such great promise. I've worked with these kids and let them know where I came from and let them know how hard it is.

Encouragement - "yes we can" is a great thing. I hope it continues at a better clip.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[nanook 1]

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Also in the US the American dream is dead. You can no longer just work hard and have a house and a life.

Actually, it's still there. The nature of the work has changed. You can't expect to live the "dream" without some sort of research. Example. . .Looking back, all the auto industry jobs that middle class workers enjoyed was due to the fact that everybody bombed the hell out of major european and asian industry complexes. It created a short-lived era of middle class comfort in the "hard-work" areas.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[ridestrong 1]

YES

It is all about one's individual mentality, motivation, and to a strong degree upbringing. I don't mean upbringing in terms of the class they grew up in but their parental involvement. If the parents are disinterested in their children doing well in school or obeying rules and laws, it will likely be more difficult for that child to understand the concept of hard work for self gain.

I did not have anything growing up and lived in some nasty places, moving from one to another. My parents instilled in me the importance of education and hard work.

After high school I was arrested, made some bad mistakes with drugs etc... I realized I was going nowhere and started working two jobs. I got my self a degree from a state college, and then continued on to get a graduate degree in medicine.

I had to work damn hard to get where I am now... but even more easily could still be a drugged out loser.

If there is anything truly holding people back in America it is number one likely themselves, number two their upbringing. The government or society (today) did not put a ball and chain on any ones foot that they didn't put there themselves.

I don't want any cookies for what I've done. I just don't want to listen to lazy people, druggies, alcoholics, etc... complain that they are being held down by someone other than themselves. And then ask me for a hand out. Show me you will turn that into more than your next fix and I will reconsider.

The government now more than ever does encourage people to be poor by giving them handouts.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[rehmwa 2]

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I was Just curious what people thought about the old adage about "Poor people do things to keep themselves poor"

I refuse to stereotype an entire group of INDIVIDUALs into a pre-conceive pattern.

Some individuals that are poor do what it takes to make their life better

Some individuals that are poor have given up and expect the rest of us to take care of them

Some individuals that are poor actively try to keep themselves and those around them from changing

Some individuals that are poor get by but don't do any worse or better

etc
etc
etc

ad nauseum

I suspect if you pick 100 "poor" people (how do you define that anyway) you'd have 100 stories that span the whole gambit - but a very minority can't do anything about their situation, the rest are doing something about it, or won't.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[georgerussia 0]

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Life is every much like a lottery. Where you are born and whom you are born to make a major difference.

There is always an excuse. You might say that since you weren't born in Bill Gates family, your chances to become rich are low. I would say that if you were born in USA, your chances to become rich are better than for approximately five billion people living around the world.

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I find that people who are successful seem to always talk about working hard and they feel special they feel as if it is all them and that’s why they are a success. Now this can be true, however often times the only difference between them and the people they have no sympathy for is who they are born to and where.

You might find a lot of examples when a poor family had several kids - in my experience, usually only one of them is very successful. I could name a few examples right now, and I personally know their family circumstances. Myself I'm such an example too. For us there is no difference where we born, and who to.

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Life is not an exact science. There are people who will succeed no matter what environment they are in and ones that will fail even if born to great parents with great means.

Yes, this is right. For example, look on two brothers, both getting $100. One would spend it on books and education, one would spend it on booze and weed. Who has a better chance to success?

The key is the choice. On weekend you can go skydiving, or you can take a part-time project. You can spend your money on health insurance, or you can spend them on iPhone, and get hit by $1,000 bill once you got sick. You can go to community college on evenings, or you can have kids at age 22 and have no time for anything but visiting welfare offices.

The difference between successful and non-successful people is not where they born. It is the choice they make.

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Also in the US the American dream is dead. You can no longer just work hard and have a house and a life.

Most middle class people I know survive they do not live.

But i think the majority of people are poor because they were born poor.