House passes healthcare bill

[ltdiver 3]

Noticed that the House was in session today and the healthcare bill is one step closer by a very narrow vote.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=126523&catid=222

This will continue to be interesting, on all fronts. I work in a very poor (and crime ridden) neighborhood. We are constantly admitting those on Medi-Cal (California's version of healthcare for those on welfare). Since these folks are already covered I wonder how a Federal Healthcare Bill will effect them. And of course, as healthcare providers, us.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Lucky... 0]

Here's a list of the Dems who voted against it. Glad no AZ Dems are in there, we must be more progressive than I thought.

http://www.myfreedompost.com/2009/11/39-democrats-who-voted-against-pelosis.html

Before you think these guys are all for, uh, freedom, at least one voted against it as it is too weak: Rep. Dennis Kucinich (OH)

[Gawain 0]

A five vote gap. Pretty much means the Senate won't be able to stop a filibuster on their version of the measure.

2000+ pages, and they didn't read it. Didn't post it for 72 hours...none of it...

Not one promise has been kept by anyone, about anything on this mess. The house version is most certainly not "revenue" neutral...doesn't matter, because the President would sign it anyway.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[FallingOsh 0]

Well said.


Read it? Hell no we didn't read it. Why would we do something like read a potentially nation changing bill?


I wonder what kind of spin people will put on all the ignored promises.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

A five vote gap. Pretty much means the Senate won't be able to stop a filibuster on their version of the measure.

2000+ pages, and they didn't read it. Didn't post it for 72 hours...none of it...

Not one promise has been kept by anyone, about anything on this mess. The house version is most certainly not "revenue" neutral...doesn't matter, because the President would sign it anyway.

Funny how the R's always whine about fillibuster enactment; my how times change.

[rushmc 23]

Some of Whats coming if it gets past the Senate

Quote

# “Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.”


# “Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.”

# “Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.”

# “On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17 percent of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20 percent of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.”

# “Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20 percent of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.”

# “Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community 'entities' with no required qualifications except having 'documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers' to 'educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities' aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity.”

# “Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs.”

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Some of Whats coming if it gets past the Senate

Quote

# “Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.”


# “Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.”

# “Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.”

# “On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17 percent of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20 percent of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.”

# “Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20 percent of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.”

# “Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community 'entities' with no required qualifications except having 'documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers' to 'educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities' aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity.”

# “Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs.”

And so it's all fucked up, your solution isssssssssssss: Allow for interstate purchasing of insurance I acan't afford it here, but I can afford it at a 10% discount via interstae competition . Good or bad, this is here as a result of the R's not having anything viable, just status quo.

BTW, I see you've changed your tone from it won't pass, to when it passes . I realize the hardest is yet to come, but Fillibuster, which stands for: According to Binder and Smith, the origin of the word appears to be a cross between the English and Dutch for free booty, a term to describe looters who lived on others’ booty and spoils, is thought of as a dirty trick, a desperate last chance, etc. The R's look bad enough, they risk looking worse if they filibuster.

The R's chided the D's for threatening it in 2005 as dirty pool, the R's threatened to change the rules of judicial nomination, now the R's are threatening it.

If you're an R, probably the best thing you can do to get majority again and you truely feel HC will fail, would be to let it pass, have it be a missery and then let the votes role in. Otherwise whenever a person feels fucked by existing HC they can and could blame the R's for blocking what would be construed as a former possible fix.

Again, if the R's had a solution, they could have proposed it and we wouldn't be in this so-called mess. Their solution was to say fuck the poor, fuck those with pre-existing illness, etc.

[diablopilot 2]

Are you kidding? have you read this thing. It will change what I pay for the SAME sort of coverage by 5 times. It literally will be less expensive for me to be unemployed.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[kbordson 8]

Quote

Are you kidding? have you read this thing. It will change what I pay for the SAME sort of coverage by 5 times. It literally will be less expensive for me to be unemployed.

Directive 10-289

"In the name of the general welfare," read Wesley Mouch, "to protect the people's security, to achieve full equality and total stability, it is decreed for the duration of the national emergency that--

"Point One. All workers, wage earners and employees of any kind whatsoever shall henceforth be attached to their jobs and shall not leave nor be dismissed nor change employment, under penalty of a term in jail. The penalty shall be determined by the Unification Board, such Board to be appointed by the Bureau of Economic Planning and National Resources. All persons reaching the age of twenty-one shall report to the Unification Board, which shall assign them to where, in its opinion, their services will best serve the interests of the nation.

[futuredivot 0]

After all is said and done, my position boils down to I don't want to fund you. If you don't like your situation, improve it. It's not fuck the poor-it's the poor won't get unpoor if there's no good reason. I've been poor-painfully, worried about food and shelter poor. Never starved but I have skipped eating a day or two. A person can change their station.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[warpedskydiver 0]

It won't take long now, will it?

[airdvr 210]

Quote

If you're an R, probably the best thing you can do to get majority again and you truely feel HC will fail, would be to let it pass, have it be a missery and then let the votes role in.

Playing politics with my country is what got us into this mess. Why not forget party lines and vote your consience?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 23]

Quote

It won't take long now, will it?

It has to get through the Senate and there are huge differences between the two versions.

I also find it interesting what Pelosi had to give up the get the votes needed.

Abortion funding and large aspects of the gov option.

I will never change the dip shit Harkin's vote and Grassley is rock solid against it so I guess we will wait and see.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[warpedskydiver 0]

I was referring to Ayn Rands words.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

I was referring to Ayn Rands words.

I know

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Ah yes, we damned sure are getting change we voted for.

Quote

By: Dick Morris & Eileen McGann

As the suicidal Democratic congressmen proceed to rubber-stamp the Obama healthcare reform despite the drubbing their party took in the '09 elections, the president trotted out the endorsements of the AMA and the AARP to stimulate support. But these – and the other endorsements – his package has received are all bought and paid for.

Here are the deals:

# The American Medical Association (AMA) was facing a 21 percent cut in physicians' reimbursements under the current law. Obama promised to kill the cut if they backed his bill. The cuts are the fruit of a law requiring annual 5 percent to 6 percent reductions in doctor reimbursements for treating Medicare patients. Bravely, each year Congress has rolled the cuts over, suspending them but not repealing them. So each year, the accumulated cuts threaten doctors. By now, they have risen to 21 percent. With this blackmail leverage, Obama compelled the AMA to support his bill...or else!


# The AARP got a financial windfall in return for its support of the healthcare bill. Over the past decade, the AARP has morphed from an advocacy group to an insurance company (through its subsidiary company). It is one of the main suppliers of Medi-gap insurance, a high-cost, privately purchased coverage that picks up where Medicare leaves off. But President Bush-43 passed the Medicare Advantage program, which offered a subsidized, lower-cost alternative to Medi-gap. Under Medicare Advantage, the elderly get all the extra coverage they need plus coordinated, well-managed care, usually by the same physician. So more than 10 million seniors went with Medicare Advantage, cutting into AARP Medi-gap revenues.

Presto! Obama solved their problem. He eliminates subsidies for Medicare Advantage. The elderly will have to pay more for coverage under Medigap, but the AARP -- which supposedly represents them -- will make more money. (If this galls you, join the American Seniors Association, the alternative group; contact sbarton@americanseniors.org. This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .)

# The drug industry backed ObamaCare and, in return, got a 10-year limit of $80 billion on cuts in prescription drug costs. (A drop in the bucket of their almost $3 trillion projected cost over the next decade.) They also got administration assurances that it will continue to bar lower-cost Canadian drugs from coming into the U.S. All it had to do was put its formidable advertising budget at the disposal of the administration.

# Insurance companies got access to 40 million potential new customers. But when the Senate Finance Committee lowered the fine that would be imposed on those who don't buy insurance from $3,500 to $1,500, the insurance companies jumped ship and now oppose the bill, albeit for the worst of motives.

The only industry that refused to knuckle under was the medical device makers. They stood for principle and wouldn't go along with Obama's blackmail. So the Senate Finance Committee retaliated by imposing a tax on medical devices such as automated wheelchairs, pacemakers, arterial stents, prosthetic limbs, artificial knees and hips and other necessary accoutrements of healthcare.

So these endorsements are not freely given, but bought and paid for by an administration that is intent on passing its program at any cost.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Are you kidding? have you read this thing. It will change what I pay for the SAME sort of coverage by 5 times. It literally will be less expensive for me to be unemployed.

Are you kidding me? Have you read all 2000 pages? I didn't think so. Whatever the outcome, youyr party didn't want to propose a fix, so here it is. The R electorate passed McCain by and chose a war coward and his VP thug; quit acting as if there isn't blame to spread and virtually all the debt was incurred under an R.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

After all is said and done, my position boils down to I don't want to fund you.

I thought several of us have quashed that fallacious argument by now. There is no way I can pay for X, you can pay for Y. etc. Tax revenue and outlays have virtually no correlation, so there is no way one can effect the other. Furthermore, if there were, I haven't enjoyed paying 1T for your war and 600B/yr for your military you think is so neccessary.

Quote

If you don't like your situation, improve it.

I'm constantly working on it. Even if I had HC ins, I would want this, so your point is irrelevant.

Quote

It's not fuck the poor-it's the poor won't get unpoor if there's no good reason.

Last I checked in college 25% of welfare recipients were chronic.

Quote

I've been poor-painfully, worried about food and shelter poor. Never starved but I have skipped eating a day or two. A person can change their station.

Not if they're in too bad shape or older, etc. So a person can change their station, that's why I advocate gov-paid HC and education, so we can advance health and intelligence rather than advancing wealth disparity and military destruction.


Ultimately, all those R's telling D's if tehy don't like it, move. Well, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, MOVE.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

If you're an R, probably the best thing you can do to get majority again and you truely feel HC will fail, would be to let it pass, have it be a missery and then let the votes role in.

Playing politics with my country is what got us into this mess. Why not forget party lines and vote your consience?

Politics have never been a part of America . Most things Dem are things I agree with, so they are virtually one in the same. I am pro-guns and the R's are a little less aggressive about taking our guns, so I could go that way and have. Of course then civil rights go to hell, welfare goes to hell, the rich/corps run amuck, so to weigh it out I need to vote D to fullfill MOST of my agendas.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

A five vote gap. Pretty much means the Senate won't be able to stop a filibuster on their version of the measure.

2000+ pages, and they didn't read it. Didn't post it for 72 hours...none of it...

Not one promise has been kept by anyone, about anything on this mess. The house version is most certainly not "revenue" neutral...doesn't matter, because the President would sign it anyway.

Funny how the R's always whine about fillibuster enactment; my how times change.

Funny how it won't be a Republican doing the filibuster. Sen. Lieberman is to thank for that.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

A five vote gap. Pretty much means the Senate won't be able to stop a filibuster on their version of the measure.

2000+ pages, and they didn't read it. Didn't post it for 72 hours...none of it...

Not one promise has been kept by anyone, about anything on this mess. The house version is most certainly not "revenue" neutral...doesn't matter, because the President would sign it anyway.

Funny how the R's always whine about fillibuster enactment; my how times change.

Funny how it won't be a Republican doing the filibuster. Sen. Lieberman is to thank for that.

You mean it won't only be a Repub doing the filibuster. I'm sure many will join. To think Lieberman is anything but a Repub is silly. He backs the war spending and campaigned for McCain ferociously. The Desm will dangle his war chairs in front of his face to not only not FB, but to vote for HC. He wants to pretend he's a good Jewish person faithful to his origin, he hates Arabs/Palestine so he will give on HC to keep that, then watch Obama pull out the ME and the senate tell Lieberman to FO.

Also, once the dems refused to nominate him for the Dem senate seat, he ran as an indep and was elected. Of the people who voted in Connecticut, 2/3 of his votes came from Repubs, so yea, he's all Independent

[airdvr 210]

Most welfare recipient's already have access to gov't paid HC so it's a moot point.

So, who are these folks who can't get HC?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Most welfare recipient's already have access to gov't paid HC so it's a moot point.

So, who are these folks who can't get HC?

There are people who work (working poor) who are above the threshold for welfare, yet can't even come close to HC. The you have people with pre-existing, people like me who haven't had HC ins for years and would probably not be able to get it oe get affordable coverage due to the ins co's knowing people like me have deferred ins and would be a big risk. People like my GF who can't retire after working for 29 years at the same plce, she has pre-existings that prohibit her to retire and still have ins.

The list goes on, but I guess you are comfortable to have a corporation decide who get care and how much it will cost. I feelbetter the gov making that decision.

[airdvr 210]

Quote

I feelbetter the gov making that decision.

That is the difference for most of us.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

I feelbetter the gov making that decision.

That is the difference for most of us.

Please know I am NOT disputing your comment here. That being said.......

No, it is what scares the hell out of many of us.

lucky is so far left anything being right of Marx looks radical to him

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln