I agree with every thing that is said in this video Do you? Gun Free zone (free fire zones)

[Kennedy 0]

You're missing a dose of reality. Gang bangers and drug dealers. Felons. They are prohibited from possessing firearms anyway. And the ones that aren't convicted felons yet, they are still prohibited form carrying concealed. And they are certainly already prohibited from shooting at people and occupied buildings, just like the rest of us. Remember, these are the scumbags that shoot each other, and sometimes decent folks too.

You think the GFSZ law convicnces them not to carry guns? Get real. They are willing to commit felonies and acts of violence. Do you really believe a "don't carry here law" disuades them? I doubt there has ever been a prosecution under this law that didn't include other felony charges. This law was nothing other than feel-good look-what-I-did legislation.

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Oh, look, I got tough on crime.

Utter nonsense.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[nerdgirl 0]

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seen as you seem quite read up on the subject personally i subscribe to the freakenomics theory of why the crime rate declined in the early 90's ;)

What's the freakenomics theory?

And, no this isn't my area of expertise. I just find the issue comes up and I'm a primary data addict.

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and it rains way way too frequently here :p

Looks like there has been at least one study that I found easily that did investigate the correlation between weather and crime: "Weather and Crime" (full text pdf)

Abstract: In studying the causes of crime, most criminologists have concentrated on traditional socio-demographic variables, such as age, sex, race, and socio-economic status. However, some researchers have investigated the influence of the physical environment on criminal behaviour. There is a recent theoretical basis for research into the influence of weather on crime: the situational approach, rational choice theory, and routine activities theory all suggest that weather could significantly influence crime rates and criminal behaviour. This paper brings together for the first time the accumulated research on weather and crime. It discusses the theoretical background, examines research into the influence of different weather conditions (such as high temperatures, rain, and wind) on various types of criminal behaviour, outlines problems with the current research, and suggests ways of advancing knowledge about weather and crime.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[quade 4]

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Remember, these are the scumbags that shoot each other, and sometimes decent folks too.

Pretty sure that's why we'd like to keep them away from schools with as many tools as possible, including Gun Free School Zones.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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Remember, these are the scumbags that shoot each other, and sometimes decent folks too.

Pretty sure that's why we'd like to keep them away from schools with as many tools as possible, including Gun Free School Zones.

His question to you was how is that accomplished? How do laws prohibiting possession at a school stop them? They're not allowed to have guns at all in the first place.

[quade 4]

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Remember, these are the scumbags that shoot each other, and sometimes decent folks too.

Pretty sure that's why we'd like to keep them away from schools with as many tools as possible, including Gun Free School Zones.

His question to you was how is that accomplished? How do laws prohibiting possession at a school stop them? They're not allowed to have guns at all in the first place.

Really? Even the ones without any criminal records yet like the folks they might have work for them as lookouts?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

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So, when are you going to address YOUR fear of the concealed-carry licensee's weapon, as show by your support of gun-free zones that do nothing to discourage criminal gunmen?

Actually, I don't fear a CC holder's weapon. I do however fear for the safety of others by the folks that aren't CC holders especially the folks like gang members and drug dealers. Giving another tool to law enforcement to keep those folks away from schools is, in my opinion, a good thing.

As I recall, CC holders are allowed to carry their weapons in Gun Free School Zones. Or was that removed from the law that was passed in 1996? I believe the 1990 law was found to be unconstitutional because it didn't some exact clause in it, but that was included in the 1996 language.

Edited to add:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990
(Not authoritative but definitely the quickest and I assume watched like a hawk by the NRA for correctness.)

Or am I missing something?

I find this fucking hilarious quade. You make statements in this thread that people do things out of fear..YOU say they (me in this case) just need to recognize it. THEN the table is turned in the exact same way and you say, "no I'm not"!! So, this is either hypocritical (of you) or, you want it both ways for yourself????

Of course there is another answer. You care to go there?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

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Of course there is another answer. You care to go there?

I have a number of answers for you. Most of them include individuals with reading and comprehension problems.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

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Of course there is another answer. You care to go there?

I have a number of answers for you. Most of them include individuals with reading and comprehension problems.

Nice

back atcha

On the other hand, the answer I have may have gotten me a time out.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

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Of course there is another answer. You care to go there?

I have a number of answers for you. Most of them include individuals with reading and comprehension problems.

Like not comprehending that you fear legal guns?

After all, that IS entirely consistent with your reasoning in the thread so far. Since you say the only reason to carry a gun is fear of criminals, the only reason to put up signage that only the legal gun owners will obey is due to fear of THEIR guns.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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Since you say the only reason to carry a gun is fear of criminals, the only reason to put up signage that only the legal gun owners will obey is due to fear of THEIR guns.

Not at all. The signs are simply a notification of an area covered by law. They're no different than the signs saying you can't carry guns on airplanes, in court rooms, federal buildings . . .

Do you have a problem with those laws as well?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

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Of course there is another answer. You care to go there?

I have a number of answers for you. Most of them include individuals with reading and comprehension problems.

Like not comprehending that you fear legal guns?

After all, that IS entirely consistent with your reasoning in the thread so far. Since you say the only reason to carry a gun is fear of criminals, the only reason to put up signage that only the legal gun owners will obey is due to fear of THEIR guns.

The biggest fear "they" (liberals have) are people who will not bend over and agree with them. They just do not understand how people can not recognize the superior intellect and reasoning abilities.

We need to name it (that fear)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

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We need to name it (that fear)

Marc, give it a shot. I'd love to see you have an original idea for a change. Hell, maybe you've even missed your calling and can become one of those "creative" types. You'll never know until you give it your first try.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DARK 0]

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What's the freakenomics theory?

And, no this isn't my area of expertise. I just find the issue comes up and I'm a primary data addict.

freakenomics
http://www.amazon.com/Freakonomics-Economist-Explores-Hidden-Everything/dp/0060731338/

basically in one section it pushes the legalisation of abortion in america as a direct contributory factor to the sudden decline in crime in the early 90's when all the criminologists were predicting a rise

that is obviously a pretty controversial thing to say but he explains it quite well the rest of the book is very interesting aswell and i just noticed that there is a second one out that i might jsut have to buy too

[Ron 10]

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Actually, I don't fear a CC holder's weapon. I do however fear for the safety of others by the folks that aren't CC holders especially the folks like gang members and drug dealers. Giving another tool to law enforcement to keep those folks away from schools is, in my opinion, a good thing

You do know that in most States it is already illegal to carry a weapon concealed without a permit or license? But people break it all the time.... What makes you think people that are already breaking one law, will obey another?

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As I recall, CC holders are allowed to carry their weapons in Gun Free School Zones.

Not true. AFAIK, only one State allows it by law, Utah.
27 States don't allow it at all.
A few States leave it up to the school.

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Pretty sure that's why we'd like to keep them away from schools with as many tools as possible, including Gun Free School Zones.

You really think that a felon that is:

1. Already proven to not follow laws.
2. Illegally possessing a firearm.
3. Illegally carrying a firearm.

Will suddenly start obeying firearms laws when they get to a school zone?

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Really? Even the ones without any criminal records yet like the folks they might have work for them as lookouts?

So you think a guy that is:
1. Illegally working for a criminal.
2. Illegally carrying a firearm.

Will suddenly start obeying laws when he gets to a school zone?

Both those thought processes make zero sense.

You seem to be talking about criminals....So, would you allow a CHL holder to carry at a school?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[quade 4]

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So, would you allow a CHL holder to carry at a school?

Asked and answered in this thread and many times with variations in many threads; yes.

That said, I really don't think that's most people's objections to the Gun Free School Zone law. I think most classic gun nut folks are pissed off because it's a law about a gun - period.

I've said numerous times before I'd be willing to cut a lot of slack for folks willing to go through the training and be licensed by the state to carry concealed weapons. I see that as a positive distinction between a pro-gun advocate and the classic gun nut that has an "anything goes in the wild west" attitude.

I'd probably still draw the line at Federal buildings and some forms at public transportation though.

But again, I really don't think the major objections I hear about Gun Free School Zones are about CC holders. The stuff I normally hear is coming from beyond the pro-gun advocate and into the realm of the classic gun nut against any and all regulation.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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freakenomics
http://www.amazon.com/Freakonomics-Economist-Explores-Hidden-Everything/dp/0060731338/

basically in one section it pushes the legalisation of abortion in america as a direct contributory factor to the sudden decline in crime in the early 90's when all the criminologists were predicting a rise

The less inflammatory explanation just observed the decline in the number of young men in the population as part of the baby boom/bust cycle we've seen since the end of WW2.

[Ron 10]

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That said, I really don't think that's most people's objections to the Gun Free School Zone law. I think most classic gun nut folks are pissed off because it's a law about a gun - period.

I disagree.... Would you support the theory that most people's desire to have GFZ's is more about getting excited about removing gun rights than actual danger?

Because most people who want campus carry only want it for people who have CHL's.

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I'd probably still draw the line at Federal buildings and some forms at public transportation though.

And still, those are also illogical thoughts.... A CHL holder is much less likely than the population as a whole to shoot someone.

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But again, I really don't think the major objections I hear about Gun Free School Zones are about CC holders.

Incorrect... Otherwise CHL holders would be allowed to carry.

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The stuff I normally hear is coming from beyond the pro-gun advocate and into the realm of the classic gun nut against any and all regulation.

And the stuff I hear is the classic anti-gun nut who dislike the idea of anyone having a firearm.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[nerdgirl 0]

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freakenomics
http://www.amazon.com/Freakonomics-Economist-Explores-Hidden-Everything/dp/0060731338/

basically in one section it pushes the legalisation of abortion in america as a direct contributory factor to the sudden decline in crime in the early 90's when all the criminologists were predicting a rise

that is obviously a pretty controversial thing to say but he explains it quite well the rest of the book is very interesting aswell and i just noticed that there is a second one out that i might jsut have to buy too

I'd heard of the book but haven't read it. Nor was I aware of the authors' hypothesis. I can play out an argument. Curious as to what the underlying data is. Thanks for the reply!

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[quade 4]

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freakenomics
http://www.amazon.com/Freakonomics-Economist-Explores-Hidden-Everything/dp/0060731338/
basically in one section it pushes the legalisation of abortion in america as a direct contributory factor to the sudden decline in crime in the early 90's when all the criminologists were predicting a rise
that is obviously a pretty controversial thing to say but he explains it quite well the rest of the book is very interesting aswell and i just noticed that there is a second one out that i might jsut have to buy too

I'd heard of the book but haven't read it. Nor was I aware of the authors' hypothesis. I can play out an argument. Curious as to what the underlying data is. Thanks for the reply!
/Marg

I think much of what he does is a bit like the old "correlation does not equal causation" thing, but in reverse. He takes controversial issues and says, well what if doing "this" is causing "that."

He may cross the line sometimes and say it does in fact cause the "that" in question, but as I recall it's mostly worded to give him some wiggle room as an out. Then again, I may just be projecting what I certainly would have done in his place.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver