I agree with every thing that is said in this video Do you? Gun Free zone (free fire zones)

[Ron 10]

Quote

Ron, there are fewer shootings in "Gun Free Zones" in my neighborhood than there were before they where instituted.

The data does not support your WAG estimate.

Quote

I'm sorry if you can't see they actually do work, but they do.

Columbine, VT, and the Ft. Hood and Orlando disasters prove you wrong.... Sorry you can't see that.

Quote

The storms in my metaphor are places of danger; bad neighborhood streets, back allies, biker bars after 2 am.

Statistically, if you avoid areas of danger to begin with, there's almost no point in carrying a gun at all.

VT, daycare centers, schools, your place of work..... Not exactly places you would expect violence, yet these are the places these shooting happen.

How many mass shootings have happened at 2AM in a biker bar?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

Quote

As for the case of a person that is intent on causing mass murders, that very rarely happens in the first place. The Walter Mitty / Rambo fantasy of a person, such as yourself, being present and stopping it is just that. While it's true that there have been occasions of it happening is not really an good reason for arming the populace and doing away with "Gun Free Zones."

Look at the entire picture and not just the Walter Mitty fantasy.

All emotion, no logic. If you can't answer, just say you can't answer.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

Quote

What threatens you so much? What gave you this irrational fear of being killed by random strangers?

What gives you this irrational fear of being killed by a random stranger that has gone through a background check, submitted fingerprints, and applied for a permit to carry?

Quote

Do you actually believe that you are likely to ever run into a person on a killing spree?

No, but then again I don't think I will forget to pull, but I have an AAD. And I don't think I will set my house on fire, but I have an extinguisher.

Also, people HAVE run into them, so it does happen.

Quote

Mass murder carried out by a crazy person on a college campus is probably the one of the very least likely ways anybody in the United States is ever going to die.

Then why are worried about GFZ's? If it has such a low probability to actually happen?

Quote

If a person is afraid of being killed by a random guy on a killing spree, they have an irrational fear.

Yes, but you fight it by supporting laws that clearly don't work. You have the same fear, just a different method to eliminate it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rhaig 0]

Quote

Quote

nice job steering it back to fear.

Are you afraid of facing your emotions?

Dr Phil is in the house!!!

--
Rob

[DARK 0]

Quote

To DARK: I always find comments like yours insane. Is there no murder in your country? People never get raped?

There is no such thing as ensuring security 100% when someone wants to do bad things. It is the price we pay for living in a free Society.

I guess you could have cameras everywhere and watch every one give everyone mandatory evolutions but not only will that still not grauntee safety it is a world i would not want to be a part of.

What solutions do you have to determine someone might be a threat? How would you know if someone thinks that killing Innocent people is ok or not?

Your ideas are great in a fantasy world. As long as there has been man on the planet there has been a minority who chooses to hurt others.

If your waiting for a day where no one ever does any thing bad to each other you should move to a Disney movie.

There are too many deaths that could have been prevented.

sorry im only getting to this now you completely misunderstood what i said apparently

the guy in the video sites numerous cases of mass murder and uses them as reasons to back up his argument that gun free zones are stupid etc

in my society(ireland) there was a 20 yr old stabbed to death around the begining of august

around teh same time (i happened to be in the states) a man walked into a church and shot a load of people and i think there was also a mass murder in florida at around the same time.

3 weeks later the stabbing was still in the news as a big deal in ireland

3days to a week later the two incidents in america were all but forgotten that is a reflection on the two societies

american society creates far more of these psycopaths than average for whatever reason that was my point

i never said bad things dont happen or there is a way to prevent all of them i said you need to fix the part of your society that creates so much more of these people than the rest of the civilised world

as far as gun law goes as i said already id love to be able to buy guns in ireland. if i ever move to america full time im sure i will own at least one gun and will probably shoot regularly. if i had to choose between your societies attitudes to guns and violence and irelands i would choose ireland in a hearbeat. not to mention that our unarmed police force is a luxury i hope we do our best to keep

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

3 weeks later the stabbing was still in the news as a big deal in ireland

3days to a week later the two incidents in america were all but forgotten that is a reflection on the two societies

Also a reflection of the fact that the population of Ireland is about the same as the metropolitan area surrounding San Francisco. 1/50th that of the US.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Most people killed in the US are criminals killed by other criminals.

What part of I live in Ireland are you not understanding?

Let me talk slower for you. I guess the Irish in America speak a different form of English.

You proclaim that the only people getting shot in Ireland are gangsters. I replied that this is largely the same in the US.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Do the math. How many people attend high schools and colleges across the country every year? How many of those people get shot by a random guy on a killing spree? What are the odds?

If a person is afraid of being killed by a random guy on a killing spree, they have an irrational fear.

Well, as Ron already asked, what's the need for making schools a special gun free zone then? And bear in mind that currently only 21yo's may own handguns.

But really, it's that you've constructed another false comparison. The reason for having a gun is not only to ward off rampaging nuts on a spree. The rate of date rape and abusive boyfriends is more than enough to make it rational for a woman to decide to carry or keep a gun on campus.

The point of post 22 was that you tried to give GFZ credit for changes in a locality when in fact it was the "AND ALSO" detail you mentioned that did the work. You knew you were misleading with that claim and that's why you have not addressed post 22.

Without any real evidence to support the irrational notion that signage works, you're resorting to weird emotional arguments.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Sure don't. But I also don't wait until my kitchen is on fire before I go buy an extinguisher, either.

But you do fear a kitchen fire which is why you're buying the fire extinguisher. It's ok. That is a reasonable fear. Kitchen fires can and do happen is many households. Ask any Fireman or cook.

What I find fascinating is people arming themselves for unfounded fears. Again, go back to what I said earlier about Michael Moore's film "Bowling for Columbine".

Quote

Why do you think that the only reason to carry a defensive weapon is fear?

I think you just answered your own question in with the adjective used to describe the weapon. If you believe you have to defend yourself with a weapon, then you are afraid of the consequences of not being able to. There simply is no other logical or emotional reason. That's fine as long as the fear is a reasonable one with a reasonable expectation of happening, like the kitchen fire example.

What I'm interested in is why any reasonable person would ever expect to find themselves in that sort of position on, for instance, a college campus. Mass murder carried out by a crazy person on a college campus is probably the one of the very least likely ways anybody in the United States is ever going to die.

You take far more risks getting in your car and driving to work.
You take far more risks doing just about anything.

Understand that I agree there are FAR more reasons to own a gun than self defense and none of those may have anything to do with fear. A target shooter probably doesn't fear the piece of paper and a hunter probably doesn't really fear most of the game he's hunting from a distance. But if we're talking about defense, then at some level fear is the emotion that is controlling your actions. If it's a reasonable fear, like you're a security guard, then it's perfectly reasonable. If you live in an area with a reasonable expectation that somebody is going to break into your home then it's perfectly reasonable to have a gun at home for self defense.

However, if a person fears random gunmen showing up at innocuous places and committing mass murders then they may not be looking at things the way they really are and should probably ask themselves why.

So, If I read your respoce correctly here, if someone plans or makes preperations for a problem, disaster or un-thought-of event, it is done out of fear?

So, you are afraid to skydive so that is why you have a reserve?

I guess you may have apointed yourself the "reasoanble" fear police seeing how you pick one as rational and the other as not

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

Quote

So, If I read your respoce correctly here, if someone plans or makes preperations for a problem, disaster or un-thought-of event, it is done out of fear?

Yes. Why is that so hard for you to wrap your mind around? Can't admit you fear something? Not a macho thing to do? Does the concept that fear is a motivation in your life make you feel weaker and less of a man?

Fear is used every day as a tool to control your behavior. I find it hilarious you don't even recognize it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

So, If I read your respoce correctly here, if someone plans or makes preperations for a problem, disaster or un-thought-of event, it is done out of fear?

Yes. Why is that so hard for you to wrap your mind around? Can't admit you fear something? Not a macho thing to do? Does the concept that fear is a motivation in your life make you feel weaker and less of a man?

Fear is used every day as a tool to control your behavior. I find it hilarious you don't even recognize it.

I find it hilarious that you are consumed by it.

Me? I am just planning

You? need help maybe

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

However, if a person fears random gunmen showing up at innocuous places and committing mass murders then they may not be looking at things the way they really are and should probably ask themselves why.

Yeah, I'm sure that the folks at VA Tech never thought someone was going to show up and murder them.

I'm sure the folks at Columbine never thought someone was going to show up and murder them.

Being entirely at the mercy of the people that decided to kill them worked out really well for them, didn't it?

You may decide your life isn't worth fighting for - you may decide to place yourself at the mercy of a criminal that, by robbing you (or worse) has already shown he has no regard for you. That's fine, and it's your choice.

I don't choose that. I choose to have the means to defend myself from attack.

I think there's more fear involved by the anti-gun folks than by the pro-gun folks.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

I doubt I'm consumed by it, but I'm pretty sure you're in denial of it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

Quote

I doubt I'm consumed by it, but I'm pretty sure you're in denial of it.

I figured youd be afraid of that too.....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

I doubt I'm consumed by it, but I'm pretty sure you're in denial of it.

I'm pretty sure you are too, since by your posts you seem to think the only reason to carry a gun is to fend off a mass murderer.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

....
I find it hilarious that you are consumed by it.

Me? I am just planning

You? need help maybe

Wow Marc, you alway are good for a BS answer.

You? What are you "planning" in your old days? A new world? Perhaps w/o guns (hahaha... LMAO) - aren't gun lovers full of fear?? Consumed by fear?

Why is anyone who's aware of daily realities in need for help? You, actually, live in a more dangerous world than many others - and you do not realize it???

Oh well, I forgot - you're still planning!

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I doubt I'm consumed by it, but I'm pretty sure you're in denial of it.

I really am glad that you can sit there being protected from all the others around you and feel all fat dumb and happy that no one can or will harm you.

I guess I am just not so trusting in the local sheepdogs since I live in the boonies.. and am pretty much on my own for an hour or more in most cases. I may have been a helpless victim as a child.. but I refuse to be a victim of predators as an adult.

[quade 4]

See? Amazon is willing to admit she's motivated to own a gun out of fear.

Was that so hard?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

....
I find it hilarious that you are consumed by it.

Me? I am just planning

You? need help maybe

Wow Marc, you alway are good for a BS answer.

You? What are you "planning" in your old days? A new world? Perhaps w/o guns (hahaha... LMAO) - aren't gun lovers full of fear?? Consumed by fear?

Why is anyone who's aware of daily realities in need for help? You, actually, live in a more dangerous world than many others - and you do not realize it???

Oh well, I forgot - you're still planning!

You and quade must assume you know what others think and feel. I am not that arrogant.

Also, I think I can assume you know the meaning of the work "planning"?

I hope so

Sorry you are so afraid of guns and gun owners. Maybe you and quade can comfort each other on this issue

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

See? Amazon is willing to admit she's motivated to own a gun out of fear.

Was that so hard?

So..when are you going to admit that you support gun-free zones out of fear of MY gun, not the criminal's gun?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

Quote

So..when are you going to admit that you support gun-free zones out of fear of MY gun, not the criminal's gun?

I support Gun Free School Zones out of compassion for my fellow humans.

I have no fear whatsoever of your gun. Should I?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

Quote

See? Amazon is willing to admit she's motivated to own a gun out of fear.

Was that so hard?

Fear.. not so much... a firm grip on reality... YES

It's quite empowering to be able to rely on myself and not the whims of others to protect me.

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

....
Sorry you are so afraid of guns and gun owners. Maybe you and quade can comfort each other on this issue

Marc, old friend. You surely know that I'm a vivid hunter and hence, a gun owner. I only fear weapons of every kind in the hands of idiots. And as long as every deceived husband (and gun owner, of course) is transforming himself into a killing machine, your place is a dangerous one.

I am fully aware of danger in the world. As the black panther, witch just now is strolling in the woods close to my home town But, this does not mean I have to be armed all day long.

Relax. Proceed with planning.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[downwardspiral 0]

Gun free zones don't bother me much at all provided there are people there (sheep dogs) with guns that can react to a situation (in seconds not minutes) in which a "wolf" decides to make it a free fire zone.

BTW just got MW2 this morning so tonight my livingroom is going to be a free fire zone!

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

....
Sorry you are so afraid of guns and gun owners. Maybe you and quade can comfort each other on this issue

Marc, old friend. You surely know that I'm a vivid hunter and hence, a gun owner. I only fear weapons of every kind in the hands of idiots.bingo!!! and crimials And as long as every deceived husband (and gun owner, of course) is transforming himself into a killing machine, your place is a dangerous one.My place? Here again you make assumptions with nothing to base them on. How am I transfering myself into a killing machine?

I am fully aware of danger in the world. As the black panther, witch just now is strolling in the woods close to my home town But, this does not mean I have to be armed all day long.Neither do I nor am I. That is not what this has been about. Where did you get lost?

Relax. Proceed with planning.

I will, I have, and I will continue to have contingencies just like I have a reserve on my back.

Killing machine? you are out there

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln