I agree with every thing that is said in this video Do you? Gun Free zone (free fire zones)

[Darius11 12]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEbXuwDiUSo&feature=sub

Word of advice if you do choose to carry regardless of the law. Please do not say so in your post. We do have some ass holes who will report you. Similar acts have been done before on dz.com.


In the video he basically talks about how gun free zones basically allow the bad guys to know that they can come and kill with little resistance, and such acts would not happen if more citizens were armed.

Also he states that he believes that you can be a conscious objector and carry regardless of the law, as your life and the ability to protect your self and even others might out weigh what the law states. (he does state that there are consequences and everyone must make their own choice) Warns of the legal ramifications.


This is one of my biggest problems i have with the left or the far left i should say. The lack of common since and the way they try to spin things for there agenda that kill people. It is also based on ignoring the facts.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[DARK 0]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEbXuwDiUSo&feature=sub

Word of advice if you do choose to carry regardless of the law. Please do not say so in your post. We do have some ass holes who will report you. Similar acts have been done before on dz.com.


In the video he basically talks about how gun free zones basically allow the bad guys to know that they can come and kill with little resistance, and such acts would not happen if more citizens were armed.

Also he states that he believes that you can be a conscious objector and carry regardless of the law, as your life and the ability to protect your self and even others might out weigh what the law states. (he does state that there are consequences and everyone must make their own choice) Warns of the legal ramifications.


This is one of my biggest problems i have with the left or the far left i should say. The lack of common since and the way they try to spin things for there agenda that kill people. It is also based on ignoring the facts.

your problem isnt gun free zones or non gun free zones or having the right to protect yourself or not

your problem is your society breeds more psycopaths who feel that massacre is their only way to be heard than the rest of the worlds countries breed

legalise concealed carry nationwide tomorrow and i guarantee you we will still be reading about another massacre in the states in the next 6 months

and by the way i believe in the right to own and carry guns i jsut dont believe the bullshit reasons most people give to back up their case for it

[RonD1120 62]

I am thinking, moral, nationalistic sheepdog. I have adopted the 9/12 stance. In my community, we protect our own.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Skyrad 0]

Thanks for posting, it was a very dull and overly long video which could have been done in two minutes. That aside, I would agree with what he is saying about gun free zones in the USA. As American society is screwed & riddled with gun nuts and psychos who can easily get hold of fireams and reguarly go 'postal' in such areas then yes, I too would want to be able to carry if I was unfortunate enough to have to live in the USA at the moment. In countries where this sort of mass murder using firearms is still uncommon then we should do everything our power to ensure that those countries do not end up in the tragic situation that the USA finds itself in.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[DARK 0]

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Thanks for posting, it was a very dull and overly long video which could have been done in two minutes. That aside, I would agree with what he is saying about gun free zones in the USA. As American society is screwed & riddled with gun nuts and psychos who can easily get hold of fireams and reguarly go 'postal' in such areas then yes, I too would want to be able to carry if I was unfortunate enough to have to live in the USA at the moment. In countries where this sort of mass murder using firearms is still uncommon then we should do everything our power to ensure that those countries do not end up in the tragic situation that the USA finds itself in.

i agree. what he is talking about is a reaction to a problem not a solution to one. i never hear any debate on actual solutions to your murder problem from either side be it pro or anti gun

its a social problem that will take at least a few generations to fix but it can be done

[rhaig 0]

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i never hear any debate on actual solutions to your murder problem from either side be it pro or anti gun

the first step is getting more people on board with that definition of the problem. It is a social problem. Exacerbated by the presence of weapons. We can't remove guns from the equation. They're already there and obtainable through illegal channels, so any laws regarding their sale isn't going to have much effect. So that leaves us with solving the social problem. As you say it is going to take a long time.

***
its a social problem that will take at least a few generations to fix but it can be done

I think it starts with people being required to be responsible for their own actions again. Debt, litigation, all the blame that goes on... they're all self-feeding contributors to the problem. Not quite sure how to tackle it. I usually deal in more discrete problems.
So what is your take on how we could fix the social problem here?

--
Rob

[warpedskydiver 0]

Hey I am always carrying a concealed friendly weapon.

Well, usually it is concealed, unless it is needed to help a woman

[quade 4]

15 minutes and 39 seconds of not much going on except overly dramatic slow zooming text and a guy in a hat yammering on the same point without actually saying much. Ok, he -might- have a point in there somewhere, but FFS that was long and whatever point he might have had was shut out behind my eyelids closing due to boredom. He just comes across to me as an obsessive gun nut that looks like he really wishes he was Big Brother. The guy must REALLY like the sound of his own voice.

However, to the exact point of this thread, no. I do not agree with him. I don't believe insane people pick their targets based on whether or not there are guns at the facility. I believe insane people pick their targets because they have a specific grievance with the institution or somebody associated with it.

I believe that Gun Free Zones do lower the body count overall.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Darius11 12]

To Skyrad: Living in the UK you should have a clear example that gun laws do not prohibit a killer from killing, it also does not keep criminals unarmed.

The US is hundreds of millions of people from different backgrounds and different cultures who get along We do a lot better then other countries who have the same diversity. We all have nut jobs, we all have bad people. To say that the outlawing of guns anywhere would deter a criminal from bringing a gun or getting gun to do bad things is kind of crazy. Being in the UK you should know that better then any of us. Or is there no gun crimes in the UK?




To DARK: I always find comments like yours insane. Is there no murder in your country? People never get raped?

There is no such thing as ensuring security 100% when someone wants to do bad things. It is the price we pay for living in a free Society.

I guess you could have cameras everywhere and watch every one give everyone mandatory evolutions but not only will that still not grauntee safety it is a world i would not want to be a part of.

What solutions do you have to determine someone might be a threat? How would you know if someone thinks that killing Innocent people is ok or not?

Your ideas are great in a fantasy world. As long as there has been man on the planet there has been a minority who chooses to hurt others.

If your waiting for a day where no one ever does any thing bad to each other you should move to a Disney movie.

There are too many deaths that could have been prevented.



To Quade: Yep the video is long but i have watched a lot of his videos (he mainly does very detailed gear reviews also very long but great for someone who wants all the info),i think he feels he needs to cover every point over and over again. I think he is used to the forums format where many just look to knit pick or play devils advocate. So he has to say the say shit over and over because he is used to whats coming. We see it here every day on these forums its as if some people brake their neck just to miss the point.

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I believe that Gun Free Zones do lower the body count overall.

All the deaths in gun free zones tell me different. It takes a gun(or some lethal force) to stop a gun.In VA tech did the gun free zone there help or hurt?
How have you reached your conclusion?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[quade 4]

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To Quade: Yep the video is long but i have watched a lot of his videos (he mainly does very detailed gear reviews also very long but great for someone who wants all the info),i think he feels he needs to cover every point over and over again. I think he is used to the forums format where many just look to knit pick or play devils advocate. So he has to say the say shit over and over because he is used to whats coming. We see it here every day on these forums its as if some people brake their neck just to miss the point.

He should realize then that by saying more, he's just giving more material for the trolls to latch onto. The less he says, the less there is to argue with.

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I believe that Gun Free Zones do lower the body count overall.

All the deaths in gun free zones tell me different. It takes a gun (or some lethal force) to stop a gun. In VA tech did the gun free zone there help or hurt?
How have you reached your conclusion?

I've reached my conclusion based on observing human behavior. When people get into arguments, those arguments have a tendency to escalate. If a person has a weapon, they'll tend to use it. Schools are a prime example of a location where small fights can easily escalate to a shooting death. If the school is a "Gun Free Zone" it puts students on notice that they should not be carrying weapons and are grounds for expulsion and jail. By lowering the weapon carrying threshold, it has without question prevented countless shootings. Unfortunately, it's not a hard number; it's a soft one that can only be measured against the number of shootings that occur when the "Gun Free Zone" didn't exist.

I live in Santa Ana, California. At one point in time it was considered to be one of the most gang infested areas of the country with one of the highest school murder rates. Right now, the murder rate is quite low. What changed? The addition of the "Gun Free Zone" and zero tolerance.

So, while carrying a weapon -may- save an individual in a situation that is highly unlikely to happen in the first place, like what we just saw in Texas, overall the policy does in fact save many lives.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Ron 10]

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I believe that Gun Free Zones do lower the body count overall.

So you think posting a sign saying "No Guns allowed" will stop a guy that plans on going on a killing spree?

The facts show otherwise.

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By lowering the weapon carrying threshold, it has without question prevented countless shootings.

Again, the facts show otherwise.

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Unfortunately, it's not a hard number; it's a soft one that can only be measured against the number of shootings that occur when the "Gun Free Zone" didn't exist.

There are more shootings now than before. Again, your comments are not supported by data.

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So, while carrying a weapon -may- save an individual in a situation that is highly unlikely to happen in the first place, like what we just saw in Texas, overall the policy does in fact save many lives.

Unlikely to happen in the first place??? I guess you didn't hear about the guy in Texas at the "Gun Free Zone" then, huh?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[quade 4]

Ron, try reading for a change.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Ron 10]

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Ron, try reading for a change.

Try not backpedaling when you step on your own crank with your own words.

Not my fault you say things like:

"I've reached my conclusion based on observing human behavior. "

So you have no data, just a made up observation.

" By lowering the weapon carrying threshold, it has without question prevented countless shootings."

And the facts prove otherwise, your made up BS does not fly... Don't blame me for pointing that out.

"Unfortunately, it's not a hard number; it's a soft one that can only be measured against the number of shootings that occur when the "Gun Free Zone" didn't exist. "

Again, a BS pulled out of your ass number. There are more shootings now, than in the 60's when people had rifles in their trucks.

Face it, you made up a bunch of BS and can't back it up, so you tried to make it personal.

Lame, but expected from you.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[quade 4]

Ron, there are fewer shootings in "Gun Free Zones" in my neighborhood than there were before they where instituted.

I'm sorry if you can't see they actually do work, but they do.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[christelsabine 1]

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Ron, try reading for a change.

Try not backpedaling when you step on your own crank with your own words.

Not my fault you say things like:

"I've reached my conclusion based on observing human behavior. "

So you have no data, just a made up observation.

" By lowering the weapon carrying threshold, it has without question prevented countless shootings."

And the facts prove otherwise, your made up BS does not fly... Don't blame me for pointing that out.

"Unfortunately, it's not a hard number; it's a soft one that can only be measured against the number of shootings that occur when the "Gun Free Zone" didn't exist. "

Again, a BS pulled out of your ass number. There are more shootings now, than in the 60's when people had rifles in their trucks.

Face it, you made up a bunch of BS and can't back it up, so you tried to make it personal.

Lame, but expected from you.

Do you wear your bulletproof vest all day long?

And at night, too? Your kids (if any ?) are equipped with matching vests?

Headgear for everybody? (No, talking about tin foil hats is another thing)

?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Darius11 12]

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When people get into arguments, those arguments have a tendency to escalate.

True but considering we are talking about observations, Most of the actually all the gun owners i know and the ones who carry are responsible and understand that if there life or the life of others is not in danger they do not arm themselves(unlock their wepone). Most people do understand the difference between murder and self defence.

I don't have the statics for your area i will take your word for it. However speaking of humane nature i find what you state to be illogical, and unrealistic. There will always be people who care nothing about the law. I also believe the majority of the people on this planet are good people who are not looking for a reason to kill someone and then go to jail for the rest of their life. The ones that do we send to jail. I just believe i have the right to defend my life and the life of others. If i make a mistake by being a irresponsible adult then why should all the responsible ones pay for it?

We cant set the standard to the lowest common denominator, specially when it has been proven that there is no such thing as 100 % safety EVER.

I also believe in what is said in the video. When seconds count police are minuets away. This is not a knock on the cops just reality of life.

Your also correct that these situations are very rare however it is easy to say that when one has never been in one of those situations. We know it can happen anywhere to any one. It doesn't have to be a mass shooting. It can be a braking and entry that leads to rape and murder. We had something like that happen in Ct just a few years ago and god knows too many murders to even mention here. But the story in CT always sticks in my mind. I simply could not live with my self if that had happened to me. I would have rather died in a gun fight or goon to jail then to have my wife and daughter raped and murdered. Some laws are above all laws. The right for me to protect my life and the life of others outweighs all laws even in nature. Survival is priority and for me to survive i would have to be able to live with my self.
I could not run and let the people i care for die. It would hunt me.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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Do you wear your bulletproof vest all day long?

No its uncomfortable but a small gun that no one ever sees, that could protect you in that rare instance that you might need it. Why wouldn't you?

I think some peoplle truly believe that there are no people out there that would harm you and others for no reason. Are you one of them? If not do you feel no responsibility to prepare and or protect your loved ones or your fellow man/woman when and if something like that occurs?



If you think it only happens in TX i can give you a hundred examples of other states, if you think its just a US thing i can name other countries, So either you are denying the facts or live in happy ignorance that this can never happen to you or near you.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[quade 4]

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I think some peoplle truly believe that there are no people out there that would harm you and others for no reason.

I also believe lightning can strike, but since the odds of me being struck by lightning are very low, I try not to let it affect my behavior 24/7/365. When I see a storm coming, I leave an open field and I choose not to stand on rooftops.

The reality is that, yes, crazy assed gun violence can happen any time and anywhere. That said, it happens infrequently enough that in my daily calculous of threat assessment, it's just not that big of a deal. I take far greater risks every time I get into a car and drive on the street. I'm sure as hell not going to buy an actual tank so as to become crash proof.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

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However, to the exact point of this thread, no. I do not agree with him. I don't believe insane people pick their targets based on whether or not there are guns at the facility. I believe insane people pick their targets because they have a specific grievance with the institution or somebody associated with it.

The case of Buford Furrow proves you wrong. THere area other cases of criminals, even ones of low intelligence and major physicatric issues, choosing soft targets. Furrow passed on two targets that were defended and chose a DAY CARE CENTER, which was a gun free zone until someone intent on ignoring laws against murder decided to ignore the law on "no guns here" as well.

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I believe that Gun Free Zones do lower the body count overall.

Lower body count at Va Tech, was it Quade?

Really, it's been asked but never answered on the boards. How many mass murders happen at gun shows? Police rallies? etc.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Darius11 12]

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When I see a storm coming

Not all storms have huge gray clouds that let you know they are on their way. Thats the point.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[quade 4]

Everything you've mentioned are statistical anomalies; they are not what normally happens.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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I live in Santa Ana, California. At one point in time it was considered to be one of the most gang infested areas of the country with one of the highest school murder rates. Right now, the murder rate is quite low. What changed? The addition of the "Gun Free Zone" and zero tolerance.

Ever heard the expression: 'that and $4 will get you a cup of coffee from Starbucks?'

Gun Free zone didn't get you results - zero tolerance did. Or if the change happened in the 90s, the demographic change that improved crime throughout the country. Sorry - you need real evidence if you're going to assert the bs gun free signage was the difference, not the policy changes that have been proven over and over again to work. That's why the NRA supports the latter.

Your argument appears to be that GFZs reduce the frequency of shootings. Most others here conclude that they increase the number of dead for the incidents that do occur. And since you already theorized that people pick targets for which they have a grudge, the latter question is the more important one. And the history of CCW liberalization already shows that your concern on the first point is invalid. Having people armed via the CCW does not lead them to pull out their gun whenever they get pissed off.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Everything you've mentioned are statistical anomalies; they are not what normally happens.

wow...his anecdote is an anomaly, but your's constitute solid proof?

[Kennedy 0]

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Everything you've mentioned are statistical anomalies; they are not what normally happens.

Everything we're discussing is an anomaly. A mass shooting is an anomaly. Psychopaths, Sociopaths, and other headcases are anomalies. Violent felons are anomalies.

However, when discussing the topic of mass shootings and other mass killings, the norm is for the murder to choose a location where victims cannot defend themselves.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

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When I see a storm coming

Not all storms have huge gray clouds that let you know they are on their way. Thats the point.

The storms in my metaphor are places of danger; bad neighborhood streets, back allies, biker bars after 2 am.

Statistically, if you avoid areas of danger to begin with, there's almost no point in carrying a gun at all.

I'm pretty sure people have exaggerated the "dangers" of normal human life in the US well out of proportion to what having a gun could ever possibly save you from.

Now, I KNOW Michael Moore gets a bad rap for his film "Bowling for Columbine", but have you ever actually seen it? Screw the anti-gun stuff in it, I don't give a fuck about that. Watch it for his thoughts about fear in the US.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver