mnealtx 0 #26 November 13, 2009 QuoteQuoteSure - but according to John, the corps have complete control over the workers. I don't see where he said that. "to include managing the workforce" - he says it several times. QuoteQuoteHe seems to keep forgetting about union shops...isn't that convenient? What about union shops? You think just because I am in a union shop we call the shots? We are in contract talks now. No raise since 2001 and the company told us to basically get fucked and walked away from the table. Never gave us the chance to talk about a raise. Here it is, take it or leave it and they walked away. So much for the union controlling things. Who tells the workers to strike/slowdown? Not corporate management, that's for sure. Sorry about the problems with the contract talks, though - I got the same reply when the contract changed over here a couple years ago, and I'm not union.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #27 November 14, 2009 Quote"to include managing the workforce" - he says it several times. I know what he means by manage the workforce. We don't have a problem with being managed. That's there job. We have a problem when managment keep making stupid decisions that effect us and they refuse to listen to us when we make suggestions. QuoteWho tells the workers to strike/slowdown? Not corporate management, that's for sure. It sure wasn't the union either where I am at. Some guys just took things into there own hands. We have a pretty good relationship with our managment where I am at. Most have worked there way up as a tech before they got the position they are in now. The problem we are running into is the managment at HQ. They make the worst business decisions and then come running to the workers to bail out there piss poor managment. On the other hand when we make suggestions on things they never listen.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #28 November 14, 2009 Quote We have a problem when managment keep making stupid decisions that effect us and they refuse to listen to us when we make suggestions. Boy, doesn't THAT sound familiar!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #29 November 14, 2009 QuoteBoy, doesn't THAT sound familiar! I bet it does.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #30 November 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteSure - but according to John, the corps have complete control over the workers. I don't see where he said that. "to include managing the workforce" - he says it several times. QuoteQuoteHe seems to keep forgetting about union shops...isn't that convenient? What about union shops? You think just because I am in a union shop we call the shots? We are in contract talks now. No raise since 2001 and the company told us to basically get fucked and walked away from the table. Never gave us the chance to talk about a raise. Here it is, take it or leave it and they walked away. So much for the union controlling things. Who tells the workers to strike/slowdown? Not corporate management, that's for sure. Sorry about the problems with the contract talks, though - I got the same reply when the contract changed over here a couple years ago, and I'm not union. What is it about the word "management" that you just can't understand?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #31 November 14, 2009 QuoteWhat is it about the word "management" that you just can't understand? What is it about the word "union" YOU just can't understand?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #32 November 14, 2009 QuoteWhat is it about the word "union" YOU just can't understand? He's originally from the UK. I'm sure he understands the union, jack.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #33 November 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhat is it about the word "union" YOU just can't understand? He's originally from the UK. I'm sure he understands the union, jack. *groans*Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #34 November 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is it about the word "union" YOU just can't understand? He's originally from the UK. I'm sure he understands the union, jack. *groans* My work here tonight is done. Carry on.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #35 November 14, 2009 Quote The amount of money given by BIG PHARMA to legislators makes the unions look like pikers. In my opinion Big Pharma is going the same way RIAA/MPAA went - preserving their current position on existing markets, while everyone can now order pills from India for 10% of their costs.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #36 November 14, 2009 Quote When I see the decline of the automotive industry and the completely stupid and insane vehicles they've been selling; when I see the amount of corporate greed at the top; trust me, it's not ALL the union's fault. You seem to skip one thing out of picture, which is public employee unions. In this case we, the taxpayers, are the corporation - and our interests may easily be against the union interests, as we're paying their salaries. Here in union-friendly Bay Area we just had one BART union, which wanted to strike because they didn't want to agree on pretty reasonable contract changes. Somehow they thought people in this environment would be happy to pay more in tolls, so BART station agents - a job which barely requires high school degree - would continue making 70K a year plus benefits. Well, it didn't work, but do you think it should work?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #37 November 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhat is it about the word "management" that you just can't understand? What is it about the word "union" YOU just can't understand? There's nothing in the word "union" that suggests it is responsible for managing a corporation. OTOH, there is a strong suggestion that "management" has a managerial responsibility. Simple really, if you understand English.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 November 14, 2009 John, just admit the fact that your blanket statement about 'managing the workforce' doesn't apply well to union shops and give it up. You look more and more silly the more you pursue it. Simple really, if you've worked outside of academe.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #39 November 15, 2009 QuoteJohn, just admit the fact that your blanket statement about 'managing the workforce' doesn't apply well to union shops and give it up. You look more and more silly the more you pursue it. Simple really, if you've worked outside of academe." What part of "management" is it that really gives you such a hard on time.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #40 November 15, 2009 QuoteQuoteJohn, just admit the fact that your blanket statement about 'managing the workforce' doesn't apply well to union shops and give it up. You look more and more silly the more you pursue it. Simple really, if you've worked outside of academe." What part of "management" is it that really gives you such a hard on time. Probably the part where the "management" tells the striking union workers to get back to work and they laugh in his face. What part of "management doesn't have much control over a union shop" do YOU have such a hardon over?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #41 November 15, 2009 QuoteProbably the part where the "management" tells the striking union workers to get back to work and they laugh in his face. And this happened right after the managment and the incompetent decisions lost them money and now they want to make up the loss but cuttin wages by 40%. Gee, I wonder why the workers are pissed. You make it sound like we come in one day and decide to strike. If a strike happens there have been talks already and the workers refused the offer by the company. The workers vote to strike. Not the union. QuoteWhat part of "management doesn't have much control over a union shop" Managment has control. From what I have seen thet are too lazy to get rid of people. I can list some good examples of this.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #42 November 15, 2009 QuoteYou make it sound like we come in one day and decide to strike. Never said that, bro - never even alluded to it. Turn the amp down off of '11'. QuoteIf a strike happens there have been talks already and the workers refused the offer by the company. The workers vote to strike. Not the union. This invalidates what I said about the union guys laughing at the managers telling them to get back to work, how?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #43 November 15, 2009 Quote Quote John, just admit the fact that your blanket statement about 'managing the workforce' doesn't apply well to union shops and give it up. You look more and more silly the more you pursue it. Simple really, if you've worked outside of academe. " What part of "management" is it that really gives you such a hard on time. Sorry I've been away from the table but now that I'm back I hope I can add some positive meaningful serious input to this post.Gentlemen ooops GentlepeopleThe problem with management is the term is not pc and reminds people of the bad old days when management had complete control over the workers, You know basic stuff like safety etc etc. Management has gotten a lot better over the years (100), working condition,safety, wages, benifits have improved greatly due to poor LONGTERM decisions by Management oooops Them Them aren't to bright The first time Big 3 auto exec's went to congress to present their case for bailout money so they have time to cut costs & turn the company around. 3 private jets leave detroit to arrive at DC at the sme time to attend the same congressional hearing and sit next to ea aother at the same time. Since the first session didn't go very well The second time the Big 3 or little 2 went back to congress with hat in hand. The same ceo's ea made the same trip by a auto.As a permanent reminder that management can't return to their dumb shit old ways I suggest changeing the name to something more PC, gender neutral like Temperment or Probationary planning dept. (Or whatever works I'm open to idea's)One Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #44 November 15, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteJohn, just admit the fact that your blanket statement about 'managing the workforce' doesn't apply well to union shops and give it up. You look more and more silly the more you pursue it. Simple really, if you've worked outside of academe." What part of "management" is it that really gives you such a hard on time. Probably the part where the "management" tells the striking union workers to get back to work and they laugh in his face. If the manager was worth his or her "compensation package" that wouldn't happen. Don't blame unions for incompetent execs. Unions didn't force GM to make cars no-one wanted. Unions didn't force AIG to make absurd financial decisions. Unions didn't force Moodys to give AAA ratings to junk. Management did that all by itself, and the rest of us are paying the price.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #45 November 16, 2009 why dont you or one of your co-workers try and get promoted to make the changes you want? or go to a new company you agree with in the same role? or try to get a management position at another company if you're concerned about politics in trying to get promoted in your current company? Not being a smart ass, honest questions. there are more options than just being mad at management and blaming em right?So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #46 November 17, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteJohn, just admit the fact that your blanket statement about 'managing the workforce' doesn't apply well to union shops and give it up. You look more and more silly the more you pursue it. Simple really, if you've worked outside of academe." What part of "management" is it that really gives you such a hard on time. Probably the part where the "management" tells the striking union workers to get back to work and they laugh in his face. If the manager was worth his or her "compensation package" that wouldn't happen. Don't blame unions for incompetent execs. Unions didn't force GM to make cars no-one wanted. Unions didn't force AIG to make absurd financial decisions. Unions didn't force Moodys to give AAA ratings to junk. Management did that all by itself, and the rest of us are paying the price. And management did not force the companies to pay an electician to stand around all night to plug in and unplug extension cords. Management did not make it near to impossible to fire someone caught stealiing from a company because it was the "first": offense. Management did not make it a requirement to pay someone for 4 hours of overtime when all they needed was an extra 1 hour of work. The unions did this all by themselves. All these things add unecessarily to the overhead and we are all paying the price now.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #47 November 17, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteJohn, just admit the fact that your blanket statement about 'managing the workforce' doesn't apply well to union shops and give it up. You look more and more silly the more you pursue it. Simple really, if you've worked outside of academe." What part of "management" is it that really gives you such a hard on time. Probably the part where the "management" tells the striking union workers to get back to work and they laugh in his face. If the manager was worth his or her "compensation package" that wouldn't happen. Don't blame unions for incompetent execs. Unions didn't force GM to make cars no-one wanted. Unions didn't force AIG to make absurd financial decisions. Unions didn't force Moodys to give AAA ratings to junk. Management did that all by itself, and the rest of us are paying the price. unions did cause workers to get compensation for hours they didn't work and benifits that were way to much causing the labor end to greatly increase the cost of operating the business over what is being paid overseas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #48 November 17, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteJohn, just admit the fact that your blanket statement about 'managing the workforce' doesn't apply well to union shops and give it up. You look more and more silly the more you pursue it. Simple really, if you've worked outside of academe." What part of "management" is it that really gives you such a hard on time. Probably the part where the "management" tells the striking union workers to get back to work and they laugh in his face. If the manager was worth his or her "compensation package" that wouldn't happen. Don't blame unions for incompetent execs. Unions didn't force GM to make cars no-one wanted. Unions didn't force AIG to make absurd financial decisions. Unions didn't force Moodys to give AAA ratings to junk. Management did that all by itself, and the rest of us are paying the price. And management did not force the companies to pay an electician to stand around all night to plug in and unplug extension cords. Management did not make it near to impossible to fire someone caught stealiing from a company because it was the "first": offense. Management did not make it a requirement to pay someone for 4 hours of overtime when all they needed was an extra 1 hour of work. The unions did this all by themselves. All these things add unecessarily to the overhead and we are all paying the price now. If management agreed to the collective bargaining agreement with the unions, then management IS to blame for what became company operating procedure.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #49 November 17, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteJohn, just admit the fact that your blanket statement about 'managing the workforce' doesn't apply well to union shops and give it up. You look more and more silly the more you pursue it. Simple really, if you've worked outside of academe." What part of "management" is it that really gives you such a hard on time. Probably the part where the "management" tells the striking union workers to get back to work and they laugh in his face. If the manager was worth his or her "compensation package" that wouldn't happen. Don't blame unions for incompetent execs. Unions didn't force GM to make cars no-one wanted. Unions didn't force AIG to make absurd financial decisions. Unions didn't force Moodys to give AAA ratings to junk. Management did that all by itself, and the rest of us are paying the price. unions did cause workers to get compensation for hours they didn't work and benifits that were way to much causing the labor end to greatly increase the cost of operating the business over what is being paid overseas. Unions can't CAUSE company management to do anything. Management can AGREE to accept union requests, or management can reject.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #50 November 17, 2009 Quotewhy dont you or one of your co-workers try and get promoted to make the changes you want? or go to a new company you agree with in the same role? or try to get a management position at another company if you're concerned about politics in trying to get promoted in your current company? Not being a smart ass, honest questions. there are more options than just being mad at management and blaming em right? Where did I say I was unhappy in my job? Clearly you misinterpret my position, which is that the only people with any responsibility for managing a company are its managers. Unions have a responsibility to represent their members in dealing with management, but they do not have a responsibility to manage the company.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
