SkyChimp 0 #1 November 13, 2009 Is this a joke??? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/12/acorn-sues-unconstitutional-funding-cuts-congress/?test=latestnews Since when did Federal Funding become "constitutional" or a "right" anyway??? No where in the constitution does is say you have the right for Federal funding. http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #2 November 13, 2009 I'm still waiting for that source of yours, Chimp. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3724749;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #3 November 13, 2009 QuoteSince when did Federal Funding become "constitutional" or a "right" anyway??? No where in the constitution does is say you have the right for Federal funding. That's not the basis of the lawsuit. "Bill of Attainder" is the basis. It's right there in the article. Whether one agrees or not, discuss (or argue against) what it is, not something that it's not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 November 13, 2009 Heh...given the recent 'video exposes' and other things that ACORN has been involved in, do they REALLY want to have Congress holding more meetings over them?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #5 November 13, 2009 QuoteHeh...given the recent 'video exposes' and other things that ACORN has been involved in, do they REALLY want to have Congress holding more meetings over them? Well, that decision's on them. Strategically, I really don't see how keeping up the scrutiny helps them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #6 November 13, 2009 QuoteQuoteHeh...given the recent 'video exposes' and other things that ACORN has been involved in, do they REALLY want to have Congress holding more meetings over them? Well, that decision's on them. Strategically, I really don't see how keeping up the scrutiny helps them. Agreed. Wouldn't the Franken Amendment or the bill concerning the AIG bonuses be considered bills of attainder by those same arguments, though?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #7 November 13, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteHeh...given the recent 'video exposes' and other things that ACORN has been involved in, do they REALLY want to have Congress holding more meetings over them? Well, that decision's on them. Strategically, I really don't see how keeping up the scrutiny helps them. Agreed. Wouldn't the Franken Amendment or the bill concerning the AIG bonuses be considered bills of attainder by those same arguments, though? Not really re: Franken, due to definitions. A bill of attainder is an act of a legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them without benefit of a trial. In other words, it looks to penalize specific past conduct which has already occurred, not set up a consequence should a violator do something in the future. So the ACORN action is past-looking, while the Franken Amendment is future-looking. As to AIG, that depends on whether the bonus-restricting legislation would be considered punitive, or merely remedial. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #8 November 13, 2009 I appreciate the explanation, Andy - thank you.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #9 November 13, 2009 Hey - Blackwater slaughters people in Iraq and they get awarded with billions more in contracts. KBR rapes women within their ranks and thy get nothing the way of punishment. ACORN has one video of one bad egg and Congress strips them of everything (pretty much). I would be pissed too. Want to talk about "rights"? It's the USA- they have the RIGHT to sue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #10 November 13, 2009 Sure they have the right to sue, but not the right to receive Federal funding. Just like every other program doesn't have the right. Amtrak, Lodi Project, etc..... If you don't want Blackwater getting Federal money, then call your Senator. However, Blackwater wasn't caught on tape promoting the developement of child prostitution houses in the United States for a tax write off. Blackwater's function in the middle east is well understood in it's entirety, regardless if you agree or disagree with the war. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #11 November 13, 2009 QuoteACORN has one video of one bad egg and Congress strips them of everything (pretty much). A lot more than one... but I wouldn't expect you to know that.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #12 November 13, 2009 Once they got their guy in office, they thought they woudl have free rayne(sp?) ....tooo fuckin Bad! They failed... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #13 November 13, 2009 Quote Quote ACORN has one video of one bad egg and Congress strips them of everything (pretty much). A lot more than one... but I wouldn't expect you to know that. No there wasn't much play about it on them liberal channels The lib's can only hide from the truth for so long!Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #14 November 13, 2009 Quote Quote Quote ACORN has one video of one bad egg and Congress strips them of everything (pretty much). A lot more than one... but I wouldn't expect you to know that. No there wasn't much play about it on them liberal channels The lib's can only hide from the truth for so long! Oh, snap!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #15 November 14, 2009 no saying that I agree with ANYTHING that ACRON does. Just the disproportionate and draconian variations is rules for different 'contractors ' with the government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #16 November 14, 2009 I'm a little confused. To me something designed to punish would impose fines, revoke licenses, awarded prison sentences, or something of that nature. A punishment would involve imposing an act on the offending individual or group. Just defunding, or not actively supporting a group any more is a punishment? If I decided that I did not want to go out and actively be a part of a group for any reason I am punishing that group? Someone is going to have to clarify this for me."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #17 November 14, 2009 QuoteI'm a little confused. To me something designed to punish would impose fines, revoke licenses, awarded prison sentences, or something of that nature. A punishment would involve imposing an act on the offending individual or group. Just defunding, or not actively supporting a group any more is a punishment? If I decided that I did not want to go out and actively be a part of a group for any reason I am punishing that group? Someone is going to have to clarify this for me. You may be getting bogged a bit over semantics and definitions. It all depends upon individual context, but yes, under some circumstances, de-funding can be punitive. I suppose a rough example might be: Kid misbehaves, so parents punish him by withholding his allowance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #18 November 14, 2009 QuoteHey - Blackwater slaughters people in Iraq and they get awarded with billions more in contracts. KBR rapes women within their ranks and thy get nothing the way of punishment. ACORN has one video of one bad egg and Congress strips them of everything (pretty much). I would be pissed too. Want to talk about "rights"? It's the USA- they have the RIGHT to sue. TK they do and your observations about everything else are right on but just because others have got away with crap doesn't make it right that they do. It wasn't just one instance at all and I think you would see that a big problem with America is there willingness to sue over stupid shit. Something I have experienced as I think you have as well. You are correct though... they can sue if they want but I think it is a bad move. Now they are putting themselves back in the spotlight which is not something they need right now.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #19 November 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteI'm a little confused. To me something designed to punish would impose fines, revoke licenses, awarded prison sentences, or something of that nature. A punishment would involve imposing an act on the offending individual or group. Just defunding, or not actively supporting a group any more is a punishment? If I decided that I did not want to go out and actively be a part of a group for any reason I am punishing that group? Someone is going to have to clarify this for me. You may be getting bogged a bit over semantics and definitions. It all depends upon individual context, but yes, under some circumstances, de-funding can be punitive. I suppose a rough example might be: Kid misbehaves, so parents punish him by withholding his allowance. I suppose, but to me an allowance has always been a privilege and not a right. I give my kids an allowance when they do good at there homework, do there chores, etc... When they do their assigned jobs, they get the money. When I can afford it and they do extra, I may fund a family outing. Do nothing, get nothing. When they misbehave, they get grounded (punishment). They are not entitled to an allowance, it is never automatic. My kids understand that. I guess this is why I am confused."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #20 November 14, 2009 That's why I hate analogies - they are, by definition, imperfect; and then people wind up focusing (too much) on the fine points of the analogy's imperfections. (It's also precisely why I said it was a "rough example" - because I didn't want to debate an analogy.) Nonetheless, my greater point is what I said it was: under certain circumstances, deprivation of a funding source can be a punitive measure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #21 November 15, 2009 Quote I suppose, but to me an allowance has always been a privilege and not a right. I give my kids an allowance when they do good at there homework, do there chores, etc... When they do their assigned jobs, they get the money. When I can afford it and they do extra, I may fund a family outing. Do nothing, get nothing. When they misbehave, they get grounded (punishment). They are not entitled to an allowance, it is never automatic. My kids understand that. I guess this is why I am confused. What your missing is that Liberal's think alot of thing's are a "right" and should not have to be earned! They deserve it! You should not question them. Check out the history of ACORN. Start by doing your home work on RICHARD CLOWARD AND FRANCIS PIVONS. You will be amazed what your tax dollar have been suppoting. The sad thing is that no one has a damn clue about them two and how they have screwed this countryNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #22 November 15, 2009 .... and, they have had help."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #23 November 15, 2009 Yes the dem's have been by there side, and the republican's haven't done anything (much) to stop them. It make's me sick to think of all of the waisted tax dollars But hell alot of what the govt does is a waist of tax dollar's Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #24 November 15, 2009 QuoteI'm a little confused. To me something designed to punish would impose fines, revoke licenses, awarded prison sentences, or something of that nature. A punishment would involve imposing an act on the offending individual or group. Just defunding, or not actively supporting a group any more is a punishment? If I decided that I did not want to go out and actively be a part of a group for any reason I am punishing that group? Someone is going to have to clarify this for me. I will explain. Defunding ACORN shows that Congress is not condoning that activity. The punishment itself comes after the investigations are complete. However you dont have to wait for investigations for "We the People" to take our checkbook back. If AMTRAK employees where caught on tape trying to set up a prostitution room in the back of train, we wouldn't have to wait for an investigation to stop giving them money after see and hearing what was on tape. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
