Rick 67 #101 November 24, 2009 Quote If we require the employer to provide it, we'll simply have les employers. You hit the nail on the head there. We did provide health insurance to our employees for a couple years. Every year got more expensive until we could no longer afford it. I would love to at least subsidize our employees health insurance but it is so ridiculoulsy priced we just can't do it. I agree that as a country we should all have access to health care. I just don't knwo why it has to become the employers resposibility.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funfall 0 #102 November 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteA decent poilcy [SIC] with that sort of premium) ](100/mo), and covering a significant pre-existing condition, sounds like something from the past. If recent, I'd guess that it's subsidized by her school, employer, or the government. Wrong and wrong. Pulled up last night and no subsidy from anyone. QuoteAnd if it were available to most people, why would anyone be asking for help getting insurance? Because most people are unwilling to pay the 200/mth and would rather make 200 dollars worth of skydives than pay for medical care... Or drive a 200/mth nicer car, or live in a 200/mth nicer place.... Or drink 200/mth in beer... Or a combination of all of the above. Well, that's an example of why I try to stay out of such heated discussions, with participants (not just you) distorting or exaggerating the "facts" to better make their points. My comments were merely observation and admitted speculation, and not intended to attack you or your story. But they concerned the $100/mo policy you described, not the ones you're now describing that cost twice as much. I would have been happy to be wrong, and have you tell us all where we could get such a policy today. But being involved in the health care industry in several ways, and dealing with it at several levels, I know that it's unrealistic for most of us. I really wish I was wrong. BTW, regarding the original topic, Tim D'A may need to run on the platform he does in order to win in his conservative district, if that's what the majority of voters support. And his personality may irritate some, but might be popular there. But he'll have to find the right balance to be successful in pulling in donations from elsewhere. And I'm interested in hearing what he plans to do for skydivers, once in office. (I do appreciate his building Paraclete.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #103 November 25, 2009 QuoteBut they concerned the $100/mo policy you described, not the ones you're now describing that cost twice as much. I used 200/mth in the example since the polices we looked at were 149/160/180/mth."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #104 November 25, 2009 Hey Tim, I got your postcard yesterday. It says in part Quote Tim will be an advocate in Congress for all skydiving and aviation issues. He will be our ambassador to the nation's capital and will always promote and support the sport we love. I was wondering what your views are on 1-800-Skyride. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #105 November 25, 2009 Quotewe're not employees, we're contractors. Right. That's very convenient for TK, isn't it. No tax withholding bookkeeping. No unemployment taxes. No worker's comp taxes. No health insurance requirements. If his contractors get hurt, it's their problem. If they are out of work, they get no unemployment benefits. Liberals like to criticize businesses that make their employees independent contractors, because then the business isn't responsible for providing any benefits for them, and it's cheaper! Oh, he professes to care about wanting good things for his people, as long as someone else pays for it. Just like a good little liberal. So here we have the liberal Skydive City's TK running his business exactly the way that liberals don't like. He talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. And he's also all for more restrictive gun laws, as long as they don't affect the guns that he owns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #106 November 25, 2009 as if that DZ is the only one with contractors. I've been in IT/Networking for over 25 years and see it all the time here to. Employees OR contractors - I see no difference when it comes down to a company being able to provide those benefits and still remain a profitable and sustaining venture. As an FYI, TK doesn't own Skydive City. I don't understand attacking TK for a best practice behavior that the majority of small businesses follow. You own a business John? Any clue what it costs as a business to provide HC for employees? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #107 November 25, 2009 In Canada the tax dept made a ruling a few years back that if a "contractor" earns all or the overwelming amount of his/her income from one source, they are an employee. They don't actively persue the employer on this until the "contractor" fails to pay their taxes. Then they go to the employer and say, "This person was an employee. You should have withheld their taxes. PAY! WITH INTEREST!" Workman's compensation boards do the same. One DZ closed after a coach suffered a brain injury and the WCB asked for several years worth of back premiums to be paid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #108 November 25, 2009 In Florida, workers comp is the law for employees, not contractors, unless you are in construction. worker's comp for 'skydivers' is not available, at any price, from any company - even you may be able to understand that. Yet the law dictates that we must have it for 'employees'. So to have our instructors as employees would result in $25,000/day fines until we comply. That is the government's position - forced compliance. And since that insurance does not come from the government, but from yet another PRIVATE corporation that will not write the policy, we are actually operating in the only way we can. So we run our business in the best way we can, given all the variables and boundaries by which we all live. Not by any 'choice' not to help out my staff in any way. And we do actually help them out. NOYFB - On many occasions, we have paid these 'contractors' when times were hard, hurricane season, helped them out when they were hurt - I even helped one get a hernia operation when he had no insurance, because he could not work at all. So if I may be so brave - FUCK OFF. talk the talk, walk the walk, twist it any way you want - we take good care of our 'staff', contractors AND employees - far better than most. QuoteOh, and he's also all for more restrictive gun laws, as long as they don't affect the guns that he owns. Fuck off #2 - I never said any such thing....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #109 November 25, 2009 Great point Jan, if we can wade thru all the bullshit TK bashing, maybe we could learn few things about Tim.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #110 November 25, 2009 Quoteas if that DZ is the only one with contractors. I don't understand attacking TK for a best practice behavior that the majority of small businesses follow. He's the one right here advocating that someone else pay for his employee's/contractor's health care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #111 November 25, 2009 Quoteas if that DZ is the only one with contractors. It *IS* a DZ that a part owner (from what I have been told) and the manager claim that HC should be provided, but he does not provide it to his employees. QuoteI've been in IT/Networking for over 25 years and see it all the time here to [SIC]. And that makes it OK? He could be the first to start a new paradigm.... A long time ago DZ's didn't drug test staff... Yet I have taken drug tests for Zhill's. Quote I don't understand attacking TK for a best practice behavior that the majority of small businesses follow. I don't think I have attacked him... But even you must admit that a person who spouts HC reform being needed and demanding it while at the same time not providing it to his own employees is a bit hypocritical. Yes, I am sure he has his reasons (probably good ones)... And personally I think TK is a good guy, really. But he is a very vocal proponent of HC being provided... Yet he has the ability to provide it and he does not provide it. It reads as: "I am fine writing a check from YOUR checkbook, but not from mine.""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #112 November 25, 2009 QuoteHe's the one right here advocating that someone else pay for his employee's/contractor's health care. show me where I said that...... Single Payer Health Care for everyone, paid for by the tax system, corporate AND private, by everyone, INCLUDING Skydive City, the corporation, its employees and its contractors alike...... Fuck off #3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #113 November 25, 2009 Why is it the employer's responsibility to provide health care?You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #114 November 25, 2009 QuoteYet he has the ability to provide it and he does not provide it. He does NOT Have the ability to provide it. He, being me, and not YOU, would actually know the answer to that. It is largely an incorrect assumption to say that we 'can' provide health care for our staff. Most insurance companies now exclude skydiving as an activity to be covered under a health care plan. I know since I got the rejections letters to prove it..... Using that same argument, if you are a supporter of killing terrorists, then you should be out there by yourself, killing terrorists, just to set a good example for everyone, instead of relying on the military to do it for you..... I am not for SKYDIVE CITY providing healthcare for its employees, I am for a tax based system that provides heath care for everyone - my arguments have been made and largely ignored by you so that you can continue your rhetoric. Anyway, I still am not sending any money to Tim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #115 November 25, 2009 QuoteWhy is it the employer's responsibility to provide health care? Why is it the Govt's?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #116 November 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhy is it the employer's responsibility to provide health care? Why is it the Govt's? I did not say it was. I honestly do not have an answer. I think it is all of our responsibility as Americans. I would not mind paying higher corporate AND personal tax to have nationalized health care. It will take someone smarter than me to figure out the details.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #117 November 25, 2009 Quote Most insurance companies now exclude skydiving as an activity to be covered under a health care plan. Then you cover them for other things. QuoteIt is largely an incorrect assumption to say that we 'can' provide health care for our staff. You said in this thread already that you DO offer it to your staff... that it is expensive and they don't take it. QuoteUsing that same argument, if you are a supporter of killing terrorists, then you should be out there by yourself, killing terrorists, just to set a good example for everyone, instead of relying on the military to do it for you..... Except that I did in fact serve in the Army Infantry. QuoteI am not for SKYDIVE CITY providing healthcare for its employees, I am for a tax based system that provides heath care for everyone - my arguments have been made and largely ignored by you so that you can continue your rhetoric. We know, you want the taxpayers to pay for the things YOU want for your employees but do not wish to provide for your employees yourself."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RPC1117 0 #118 November 25, 2009 QuoteGreat point Jan, if we can wade thru all the bullshit TK bashing, maybe we could learn few things about Tim. How's this for a start...he founded and built a company from the ground up that builds bulletproof jackets for the military and LE. He or his company holds at least one or two patents for a rapid "cutaway" system for the vests so that rapid medical attention can be provided without a compromise to protection. He grew his company to have annual revenues in excess of $15M before selling the company to MSA in 2006. Then he built and run a massive windtunnel that by all appearances is doing quite well. Sounds like he may know what it takes to be a business man and knows how to get the job done. I'll trust someone that has built up a small business, has managed a company/budget, workforce, etc sucessfully before I trust a community organizer that has never held a job in a company before, much less run one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #119 November 25, 2009 QuoteExcept that I did in fact serve in the Army Infantry. yes you are some king of hero for serving in the military. I am less of a 'hero' because I held a sign that advocated peace. You know lots about war and fuck-all about peace, just like I know fuck-all about war and plenty about peace. tit-for-tat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #120 November 25, 2009 QuoteI did not say it was. I honestly do not have an answer. I think it is all of our responsibility as Americans. Then that would include employers paying a part. QuoteI would not mind paying higher corporate AND personal tax to have nationalized health care. I would as long as it is run like every other Govt program so far. Frances system has been running a deficit for 20+ years AND they have been limiting services AND raising costs with no end in sight. IMO, starting a program that we pretty much know is going to create a deficit and not actually solve the problem just so we can do something is a bad move. Rushing it just to look like we are doing something is a bad move. "Never confuse movement with action" -- Hemingway Quote It will take someone smarter than me to figure out the details. Yet if you don't pay attention to it, you will get whatever they provide... you may get it anyway."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #121 November 25, 2009 Quoteyes you are some king of hero for serving in the military. I am less of a 'hero' because I held a sign that advocated peace. Lame emotional response. I never claimed to be a hero and I never claimed you to be less of anything... Can you prove otherwise? QuoteYou know lots about war and fuck-all about peace, just like I know fuck-all about war and plenty about peace. More lame emotional crap.... Can you debate the topic without this kinda BS? And you do know you were JUST debating me about landmines right?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #122 November 25, 2009 QuoteI would as long as it is run like every other Govt program so far. Frances system has been running a deficit for 20+ years AND they have been limiting services AND raising costs with no end in sight. google "France Health Care" and show me the articles that bash the French system, cause everything I found was a positive insight that we could learn something from. pages and pages of it. The French do one thing very very well - and that is "Take Care of the French". We could learn a lesson from that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #123 November 25, 2009 you're the one that brought up YOUR military service - was that not emotional in itself? 'cause' it ain't got nothing to do with the thread...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #124 November 25, 2009 I still just want to know the whole deal and details w/ the unlimited tunnel time in exchange for a $250 donation. I was hoping Tim would chime back in with details."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #125 November 25, 2009 Quoteyou're the one that brought up YOUR military service - was that not emotional in itself? No, actually YOU did in your reply to ME... See post #114 from you: QuoteUsing that same argument, if you are a supporter of killing terrorists, then you should be out there by yourself, killing terrorists, just to set a good example for everyone, instead of relying on the military to do it for you....."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
